New CAP Governance Structure

[FW]

Changing the topic a little, there's a point I didn't quite follow from the presentation - how do BoG members get appointed?  It just says that the four from CAP get appointed by CAP without reference to how we do it.  General election?  A big huddle?  Conclave with white/black smoke?

  Under the "old" system, the commander and vice commander served as members and, the NEC selected two at large members. Now, the 4  "at large" CAP members will be selected in a manner not yet figured out. I would hope however, that the candidates would be vetted by the BoG before the general membership (or one of the new advisory bodies) selects them.

[bflynn]

I would hope however, that the candidates would be vetted by the BoG before the general membership (or one of the new advisory bodies) selects them.

I would actually hope that they're not vetted by the BoG.  The current board controlling who is eligible to be put on the board strikes me as encouraging some of the same bad practices that are complained about today.

But as you say, it isn't determined yet, or at least not made public yet. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Of the previous national commanders, I wonder how many would not have met the new qualification standards.

I'm not thinking about past national commanders.  The real question is of the potential pool of future national commanders, How many meet that benchmark?

I guess that's me out. I have a 99.9% completed BA but...

Level V = 10ish years?
BA =4-6+ years?
Wing Command Req. = Make sense.

We would want a Nat.CC who has Level 5.
We would want them to have served as a Wing commander.

But about the degree, Nationally or Regionally accredited? I can get a "BA" online in a year or less...would that work?

[Ned]

The CSAG / NEC will be responsible for selecting the CAP at large members as vacancies occur.  The minimum criteria will not change (major, level 4, etc) along with some exclusions / ineligibilities - no current commanders, vice commanders, or chiefs of staff at wing or higher; no former national commander until 6 years after leaving office.

There are three vacancies to fill (the two ex officio slots plus Gen Anderson's term ends in February 2013), and these will have their initial terms adjusted so that normally one CAP BoG slot will come open each year.  (of course every three years, two slots will open since there are four CAP slots).

The CSAG will likely work diligently between now and their next scheduled meeting in November to develop their selection process.  I would expect the process to include the normal public announcement and application used now for at large members.

[Eclipse]

The CSAG will select, or recommend.

I had the impression the CSAG had no powers past advice.

[lordmonar]

The CSAG will select, or recommend.

I had the impression the CSAG had no powers past advice.

It is both.

You select your nominee and recommend him to the BoG who approves or disapproves.....much like congressional approval of cabinet members.

[flyguy06]

Ned,

What does CSAG stand for? and so since the requirement is Wing Commander. A person can go from Wing Commander to Nat'l CC skipping the Region CC job? Although I think if the competition is good and you have someone that was a Region CC versus someone who wasnt the person who was would hve favor.

[PHall]

Ned,

What does CSAG stand for? and so since the requirement is Wing Commander. A person can go from Wing Commander to Nat'l CC skipping the Region CC job? Although I think if the competition is good and you have someone that was a Region CC versus someone who wasnt the person who was would hve favor.

Read the press release in the first post in this thread and all will be revealed.

[Mustang]

As I understand it, the CSAG/NEC is absorbing all the policymaking functions of the now-defunct NB. The new "Command Council" has as much authority/pull as the National Cadet Advisory Council (read: very, very little), and that's probably a good thing.

Regarding qualification levels, I agree strongly that the CAP/CC should have a baccalaureate degree at the very least and preferably a Master's or higher. I also think any candidate for a wing commander slot should have completed Level IV at a minimum.

[cap235629]

As I understand it, the CSAG/NEC is absorbing all the policymaking functions of the now-defunct NB. The new "Command Council" has as much authority/pull as the National Cadet Advisory Council (read: very, very little), and that's probably a good thing.

Regarding qualification levels, I agree strongly that the CAP/CC should have a baccalaureate degree at the very least and preferably a Master's or higher. I also think any candidate for a wing commander slot should have completed Level IV at a minimum.

I happen to know a retired Lt. Colonel of Marines who only has a High School education.  A degree means nothing more than you had the money to do what many do not.  Leadership ability is born, NOT learned in school.....

[Ned]

Some replies:

1.  The CSAG / NEC will select the CAP BoG appointees.  No BoG approval or confirmation of the CSAG appointees.

2. The CSAG is the CAP Senior Advisory Group, which is a slimmer and more representative version of the old NEC.

3.  A wing commander already had the ability to go straight to National Commander.  No change.  I think Gen Courter had not been a region commander., but it is late and I might be wrong on that.

4.  If leadership is innate and not learned Uncle Sam sure wastes a lot of money on places like West Point and all my ROTC classes.  Our colleagues in the AF believe so strongly in a college education that they will not allow you to be a second lieutenant without a degree.  Our national commander will lead 60,000 volunteers and oversee management of $200 million of assets., most purchased with tax dollars.  A degree seems reasonable for the position.  But that can be waived for an exceptional individual.

[Fubar]

A degree seems reasonable for the position.  But that can be waived for an exceptional individual.

Was there any research into the number of people that meet the new requirements? I'm concerned about the BOG having a very limited pool of people to choose a new national commander from.

[cap235629]

4.  If leadership is innate and not learned Uncle Sam sure wastes a lot of money on places like West Point and all my ROTC classes.  Our colleagues in the AF believe so strongly in a college education that they will not allow you to be a second lieutenant without a degree.  Our national commander will lead 60,000 volunteers and oversee management of $200 million of assets., most purchased with tax dollars.  A degree seems reasonable for the position.  But that can be waived for an exceptional individual.

The Air Force has too long equated education with leadership ability and officer potential.  There are junior enlisted personnel in the Army doing the same job that Commissioned Officers do in the Air Force for no reason other than the inherent snobbery the Air Force has with it's "Pilot Culture".  The fact that the Air Force does not have a Warrant Officer career field speaks volumes.  The recent recommendations that gut the Air Guard to ensure the career paths of AD Airmen regardless of the value for the dollar speaks volumes.

Why not put the round peg in the round hole rather than be worried about the educational accomplishments of an established leader???

[BillB]

USAFux2004.    The USAF recognizes any Bachelors degree from a Regionally accredited institution. Makes no difference if it's all completed by corrospondance, in residence or whatever as long as it's regionally accredited.

[jeders]

A degree seems reasonable for the position.  But that can be waived for an exceptional individual.

Was there any research into the number of people that meet the new requirements? I'm concerned about the BOG having a very limited pool of people to choose a new national commander from.

I doubt that it's really going to effect the pool of NatCC nominees very much. Usually there's not more than 2 or 3 people who want the job to begin with.

[Mustang]

Why not put the round peg in the round hole rather than be worried about the educational accomplishments of an established leader? ??

Methinks you don't quite understand said educational accomplishments. Where'd you say your degree was from, and in what discipline?

And the Lt Colonel of Marines you mentioned is the clear exception rather than the rule among Marine Corps commissioned officers today, so that argument doesn't really hold water.

On the other hand, I can't help but be reminded of the time many years back when CAP News published a centerfold spread featuring the NEC and listing all their impressive educational credentials--many of which were advanced degrees found to have been granted by a certain degree mill in the southeast.

[spacecommand]

But about the degree, Nationally or Regionally accredited? I can get a "BA" online in a year or less...would that work?

Note that it does not have to just be a "BA"(Bachelor of Arts) but can be a Bachelor of Science or any other Bachelor's degree style.

If you are starting from scratch though, getting a bachelor's degree in one year or less is a huge feat requirement nothing but time devoted to bookwork.  Easier of course if you have transfer credits, tests outs via CLEP, DSST etc, and other items to supplement regular course credits.

[jeders]

But about the degree, Nationally or Regionally accredited? I can get a "BA" online in a year or less...would that work?

Note that it does not have to just be a "BA"(Bachelor of Arts) but can be a Bachelor of Science or any other Bachelor's degree style.

If you are starting from scratch though, getting a bachelor's degree in one year or less is a huge feat requirement nothing but time devoted to bookwork.  Easier of course if you have transfer credits, tests outs via CLEP, DSST etc, and other items to supplement regular course credits.

I think he was referring to one of those "online schools" where you send them $1000.00 and they send you a diploma. Any "real" accredited college/university, even if it's all online, will take more than a year and would be fully accepted, I am sure.

[Pylon]

We can argue over the merits and shortcomings of having an educational baseline requirement for the CEO position of a very large organization.  But bottom line is that this follows the existing practice of pretty much every national non-profit organization and our parent service.   There seems to be a recurring attitude I see within CAP that believes CAP is somehow unique from all other organizations.  This new governance structure is actually a welcome trend against that pervasive CAP-is-unique attitude, better aligning us with the standard practices & successful techniques of other major non-profit organizations.  The educational requirement for our "CEO" position is just a part of us becoming more like other successful organizations.  I welcome that trend and hope we continue down that path, rather than the "CAP is unique and we do things our own way because that's how it's always been" path.

[JeffDG]

I doubt that it's really going to effect the pool of NatCC nominees very much. Usually there's not more than 2 or 3 people who want the job to begin with.

And if you ask me, that should be an automatic disqualification.

For me, take a list of people who are qualified, rank order them in order of "Best" to "Worst".  Start at the top, and ask each one "Do you want to be the National Commander", if they say "Yes", move on to the next name until someone says "Hell no, I don't want that crap!"  That's the guy/gal for the job.  I believe in the same system for almost all "high offices" from POTUS on down.