I had a CAP officer come to me recently, asking my opinion on something.
"You were a unit commander. How would you handle this?"
Longtime CAP member, he moved from Wing A to Wing Z (not adjacent or in the same region, actually across the country).
Shows up at the local unit sporting several new ribbons and badges that he did not have in the old wing. Along the way, picked up some military service that folks in the old wing can't seem to recall having happened. He has great stories about what he did when he was on active duty. These stories are somewhat fanciful and difficult to confirm.
Of course, in this day & age, the Internet being what it is and all even 2000-3000 miles apart, people talk. Folks in Wing A are like "Oh, Colonel X is there? Have fun with that!"
This member is not some newb, but a long-time CAP member who appears to have "gone in the Air Force" at some point, at least, according to his narrative.
And already wearing Air Force ribbons & badges, and to his new unit, it looks like he has been for some time. And he's been there now more like 2 years, and the tales get slightly more fanciful as time goes on.
Not like you can easily ask for the DD-214 in this circumstance. "I gave my copy to my old unit in Wing A"
So how do _you_ handle it?
Ask anyway. Anyone who would let go of an original copy of a DD-214 is as big a moron as he already seems to be. He should still have the original.
If he does, in fact, give that response, contact the olde unit and get the info.
Yep.
Substantiate anything he's wearing or take it off. Basic due dilegence. The comments from the other wing, coupled with typical lame excuse for not producing proof are red flags enough.
The proof should be in his file, which should have come from the other wing.
Quote from: SarDragon on September 22, 2012, 01:39:54 AM
Ask anyway. Anyone who would let go of an original copy of a DD-214 is as big a moron as he already seems to be. He should still have the original.
If he does, in fact, give that response, contact the olde unit and get the info.
Yes. Leaving a 214 with a former CAP unit is, at best, irresponsible (ever hear of ID theft?), and, at worst...well, what he said. I have my military/CAP papers in a locked, fireproof cabinet.
I find the person in question's behaviour as described rather suspect to say the least. Usually when fanciful stories of military service are involved, the Bravo Sierra factor is exponentially greater.
If I were the unit CC I would tell the member in question, "until I see documentation for it, you don't wear it."
Quote from: SarDragon on September 22, 2012, 01:39:54 AM
Ask anyway. Anyone who would let go of an original copy of a DD-214 is as big a moron as he already seems to be. He should still have the original.
If he does, in fact, give that response, contact the olde unit and get the info.
I didn't think of it in the "this is my only copy".. more like "I already showed my old unit the proof that I can wear these awards and badges that I'm wearing."
Quote from: NIN on September 22, 2012, 02:01:24 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on September 22, 2012, 01:39:54 AM
Ask anyway. Anyone who would let go of an original copy of a DD-214 is as big a moron as he already seems to be. He should still have the original.
If he does, in fact, give that response, contact the olde unit and get the info.
I didn't think of it in the "this is my only copy".. more like "I already showed my old unit the proof that I can wear these awards and badges that I'm wearing."
Then contacting the olde unit should be no problem.
What does he claim to be? Generally if he claims to be finance or some boring job, he is probably telling the truth. If he claims to be SF, PJ, CCT, or something of the like with great war stories, then it is a huge chance that he is lying.
Playing on a common phrase on the interent: "DD-214 or it didn't happen!" (as previously stated)
Could you please share some of the stories? I am seriously interested in what fanciful stories this guy came up with.
Quote from: AngelWings on September 22, 2012, 02:21:04 AM
What does he claim to be? Generally if he claims to be finance or some boring job, he is probably telling the truth. If he claims to be SF, PJ, CCT, or something of the like with great war stories, then it is a huge chance that he is lying.
Playing on a common phrase on the interent: "DD-214 or it didn't happen!" (as previously stated)
Could you please share some of the stories? I am seriously interested in what fanciful stories this guy came up with.
Well, I'm leaving a lot to the imagination, but he claims to be a Command Pilot with a fairly prominent award (DFC, Air Medal, Bronze Star, Silver Star, etc, that kind of prominent), a few other minor awards, stories of derring do "back in the day," etc. But none of what he's saying seems to add up.
I helped my friend submit a request to the NPRC based on the information he had (name, approximate DOB, service, approximate timeframes, but not SSN and not with FOUO data that CAP might have, cuz that might be unethical) and the NPRC basically came back and said "no record found based on that information." Now, that could mean a) not ever been in the AF, thus no record; or b) you need better identifying info before we'll just give up that record.
Like the kids say nowadays...pics or it didn't happen. In this case, I'd listen carefully to his stories and have him repeat them at intervals to and around different people and see if the basic facts change. Take notes.
Or, just bull through it and demand to see a 214. It should be in his file if he has one, at least a copy of it. Mine is, from what little service (1 month) I had.
On the other hand, maybe he has a self esteem issue and needs to puff himself up, and he just doesn't get that some people will see through the BS and actually check. A DFC and an Air Medal are fairly prestigious awards. Start asking questions about what units he was with on AD, where he was stationed, etc. unless that's already been done.
I, too, am interested in what sort of BS this guy may be slinging. Might could be that the FBI could do a little "background"...
He owes me a new BS meter. His story just broke mine.
The NPRC would have been completely up front with you and told you "No." if they wanted to. They're upfront people. BTDT.
Tell him to show his DD-214 or he has to remove the awards and be honest. It's easier to forgive a liar after they try to repent. If he were in my squadron, I'd be hardpressed to find a reason to even keep him kicking around. Not even for the fact he lied, but for his own safety.
No DD-214, or Showed Old Unit is Bravo Sierra. Ive have never seen an VET refuse to show his DD-214, unless he "Legitimately" didnt have one. Vets are proud to show of there accomplishments, and dont forget who they served with or what unit they were in. So No 214, no GO
If he ever used his DD214 for any PME or advanced grade, it'll show up on his Member Search Report as a minimum with the branch of service and the PME credit because a copy of the DD214 went to NHQ in order to get the credit. Generally if he's wearing USAF Command Pilot wings, he likely made at least O-4, and got credit for the military grade when he joined.
You don't just "leave" your DD Form 214. You make copies of the original and you safeguard the original. For what it's worth, the form also has a counterfeiting measure to ensure the original is, indeed, the original (and that you can tell what is and isn't a copy). So, after a mere skim of this thread, your new member's full of it. Call him on it and make him remove that stuff or boot him for violating our core values. Integrity First.
"Hey, sir, we don't have any records from your old unit, we need to build a personnel file for you. Copies of any CAP records you have, and of course a copy of your DD-214. Thanks!" Then if he doesn't comply, proceed from there.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on September 22, 2012, 03:09:30 AM
You don't just "leave" your DD Form 214. You make copies of the original and you safeguard the original. For what it's worth, the form also has a counterfeiting measure to ensure the original is, indeed, the original (and that you can tell what is and isn't a copy). So, after a mere skim of this thread, your new member's full of it. Call him on it and make him remove that stuff or boot him for violating our core values. Integrity First.
I smell an 2B
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on September 22, 2012, 03:09:30 AM
You don't just "leave" your DD Form 214. You make copies of the original and you safeguard the original. For what it's worth, the form also has a counterfeiting measure to ensure the original is, indeed, the original (and that you can tell what is and isn't a copy). So, after a mere skim of this thread, your new member's full of it. Call him on it and make him remove that stuff or boot him for violating our core values. Integrity First.
Considering all the fake DD-214s I've seen, well.. counterfeiting measures, pfft.
Quote from: AngelWings on September 22, 2012, 03:00:27 AM
He owes me a new BS meter. His story just broke mine.
LOL. Nice
QuoteThe NPRC would have been completely up front with you and told you "No." if they wanted to. They're upfront people. BTDT.
See, thats the thing: you submit a request to the NPRC that says "I'm looking for Joe Smith, date of birth some time in 1962, was in the Army somewhere between 1982 and 1986" you're gonna get back a letter that says "hey, yeah, can you be -more-specific-?" meaning "we matched 24 Joe Smiths meeting that criteria"....
So when they come back an say "need more input," you're kind of stuck.
Depending on the prestigious award he has, it may help you with finding if he is real or not.
http://www.homeofheroes.com/verify/index.html (http://www.homeofheroes.com/verify/index.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medal_of_Honor_recipients#American_Civil_War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medal_of_Honor_recipients#American_Civil_War)
http://www.homeofheroes.com/members/02_AFC/detail_index_chron.html (http://www.homeofheroes.com/members/02_AFC/detail_index_chron.html)
There are many sites, and usually a quick google search will find a reference to someone who has won a medal at the top of the honor pyramid.
You could get real specific in asking his stories and getting more detail.
What airframe did he fly? What year was he flying it? Which flight training squadron did he graduate? Which unit was he assigned to? I suppose you could forget this stuff but as a 'command pilot' as has been pointed out, that's a long time in the USAF. Compare some of the stuff he says to historical records. While he could do this, I'm doubting a true 'faker' really would.
Now it is possible you're dealing with someone massaging their service because they feel no one would applaud their service otherwise.
Of course, I know I am also getting a bit more cynical these days. I am less impressed by a lot of the old time 'back in my day' type stories.
I seem to recall someone on here posting lots of "adventurous" BITD stories and then decided to come clean before getting banned. Or simply disappearing.
Fakery tends to show itself eventually.
I am very Active spotting and uncovering Phony Veterans, nothing despises me more than stolen Valor. The other thing I have noticed if a veteran did serve, he always tries to ellaborate on his service, when there service alone is pretty impressive.
Even if the guy "lost" his DD214, or it was lost in a house fire, flood, or alien attack, there are ways to get copies. I had to do that when my Dad passed away, in order to get the honor guard for his funeral services. It wasnt free, but it can be done. (I found an original copy later.) Go ahead and demand that fellow show the DD214 to wear the claimed military decorations on a CAP uniform, and to justify any CAP "benefits" derived from said service.
If he is PROVEN a liar, then scorch the earth he is standing on (figuratively speaking of course). CAP doesn't need people like that. Permitting posers in our midst makes all of us look bad.
Reiterating what some others have contributed and adding a bit of my own thoughts.
I was only in the Army for three years, 1982 – 1985, but I still have my original DD-214. Someone with such a long & stellar record would most certainly still have it.
Asking specific questions such as what aircraft did you fly, when and where, etc. are real easy questions to ask and are usually asked in normal causal conversation by others and even more so when someone smells a rat. I am really surprised this has not happened.
NPRC has a lot of information that is for the public eyes through FOIA requests. The information available does include: name, branch of service, dates of service, final rank and awards & decorations among other information. Should be fairly easy to verify.
If military decorations were not allowed on the CAP uniform in the first place wearing unauthorized ones would not even be an issue.
This would seem like an easy enough situation to deal with in a polite and professional manner without being overly confrontational. However, if it does take a bit of confrontation to get him to put up or shut up then it must be done. Integrity must be maintained.
If he's a fake, don't let him get away with this. I would hate to find someone faking service, it's just not right.
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 22, 2012, 01:04:51 PMIf military decorations were not allowed on the CAP uniform in the first place wearing unauthorized ones would not even be an issue.
From military decs and badges, yes, but we have plenty of fakers on the CAP side as well.
There should be no issue with a member substantiating what they are wearing, and everyone should be able to from a personal perspective.
Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 22, 2012, 01:04:51 PM
I was only in the Army for three years, 1982 – 1985, but I still have my original DD-214. Someone with such a long & stellar record would most certainly still have it.
I was on active duty in the AF for
seven weeks in 1975 and I have my original DD-214. If they don't have theirs, I'd be willing to bet they never had one at all.
Jack
Many times the military service sends a copy of the DD214 to the State Veterans Affairs office. Try going to the state he used as a Home of Record to look him up.
I'd love meet him. It would be a hoot.
...I lost my original DD214 from initial entry and AIT as an Army reservist, I was a dumb 19yo and had no idea what it was or why it would be important to keep around; besides thats what I had a 201 file for. Now I wish I had it because it is a pain in the rear to get one....but I can still get one. (luckily there are only like 2 medals on there thats it, and the info is verifiable with other documentation)
Now the current dude if he really is a BTDT he might be mildly put off if you ask for one, but would understand why you need it and likley produce it at some point in the near future. If he's exceissively pissed about it or gives the whole "classified" discussion id say very likely a poser.
mk
Quote from: sarmed1 on September 24, 2012, 06:40:40 PM
...I lost my original DD214 from initial entry and AIT as an Army reservist, I was a dumb 19yo and had no idea what it was or why it would be important to keep around; besides thats what I had a 201 file for. Now I wish I had it because it is a pain in the rear to get one....but I can still get one. (luckily there are only like 2 medals on there thats it, and the info is verifiable with other documentation)
Now the current dude if he really is a BTDT he might be mildly put off if you ask for one, but would understand why you need it and likley produce it at some point in the near future. If he's exceissively pissed about it or gives the whole "classified" discussion id say very likely a poser.
mk
Just like to know exactly what would be classified on a DD-214. I don't see any area on mine at all except for maybe remarks where there'd be a potential for classified information. I'm just saying, that if he took that route, he obviously has never seen a 214. Also, mine has a checkmark beside "member requests copy be sent to ____ director of veteran's affairs" so if someone was REALLY interested, they could petition the VA in his home state on the form to see what exactly his service entailed.
Man...that was a long time ago. My signature has even changed drastically since 1986.
Quote from: Garibaldi on September 24, 2012, 07:35:53 PM
Quote from: sarmed1 on September 24, 2012, 06:40:40 PM
...I lost my original DD214 from initial entry and AIT as an Army reservist, I was a dumb 19yo and had no idea what it was or why it would be important to keep around; besides thats what I had a 201 file for. Now I wish I had it because it is a pain in the rear to get one....but I can still get one. (luckily there are only like 2 medals on there thats it, and the info is verifiable with other documentation)
Now the current dude if he really is a BTDT he might be mildly put off if you ask for one, but would understand why you need it and likley produce it at some point in the near future. If he's exceissively pissed about it or gives the whole "classified" discussion id say very likely a poser.
mk
Just like to know exactly what would be classified on a DD-214. I don't see any area on mine at all except for maybe remarks where there'd be a potential for classified information. I'm just saying, that if he took that route, he obviously has never seen a 214. Also, mine has a checkmark beside "member requests copy be sent to ____ director of veteran's affairs" so if someone was REALLY interested, they could petition the VA in his home state on the form to see what exactly his service entailed.
Man...that was a long time ago. My signature has even changed drastically since 1986.
Nothing is classified on a 214. Posers will usually say that their 214 is classified for reasons such as Spec ops, all sorts of secret squirrel bravo sierra. About the only sensitive info is social security number, and MAYBE unit left (I highly doubt.)
I filed an SF180 and got my DD-214 & NGB Form 22. And then filed a record correction with DA to get the Korean Defense Service Medal added, and got a pretty sweet DD-215 for my troubles. That took like 3 stamps and about 20 minutes of paperwork.
If you can't get your DD-214/215 or NGB Form 22 (supposing you have/should have one post-ETS) in about 3 weeks, you're not tryin' hard enough. :)
I was wondering is this an older gentleman in his 80s WWII generation or in his 60s from the Viet Nam era.
I have known WWII Veterans who added ribbons they think they deserve because the Army Service Ribbon, NCO Prof Dev Ribbon and Overseas Ribbon was not created until the early 80s.
I think the crazyest story I ever heard was a Squadron that gave a guy Lt Col and no one in the chain of command ever saw a DD-214.
Quote from: Private Investigator on September 25, 2012, 04:01:54 AMI think the crazyest story I ever heard was a Squadron that gave a guy Lt Col and no one in the chain of command ever saw a DD-214.
How do you "give" someone Lt Col - that has to be approved by Region.
Quote from: Eclipse on September 25, 2012, 04:09:13 AM
Quote from: Private Investigator on September 25, 2012, 04:01:54 AMI think the crazyest story I ever heard was a Squadron that gave a guy Lt Col and no one in the chain of command ever saw a DD-214.
How do you "give" someone Lt Col - that has to be approved by Region.
By passing on bogus paperwork and saying, he is a credit to his unit! >:D
Group, Wing and Region all fooled = EPIC FAIL
There is one floating around out there that I have seen that claims GO rank (MG actually last I saw when he was in AF uniform) but cant seem to find him listed on the USAF list of appointed or retired GO. He for sure used his rank to get a CAP appt as a Lt Col. A few years back could have sworn he was either recently retired or IRR caliminmg one star, saw him a few months back with 2 stars....someone else commented and he said he got called back for an assignment and promoted to the second star.....but now is officially retired.... that kicked the BS meter into the red zone....just havent had the time to do anything more than a causal internet search.
mk
Quote from: Private Investigator on September 25, 2012, 04:01:54 AM
I was wondering is this an older gentleman in his 80s WWII generation or in his 60s from the Viet Nam era.
Young guy. Well, younger than me. :)
Quote from: Private Investigator on September 25, 2012, 04:22:59 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on September 25, 2012, 04:09:13 AM
Quote from: Private Investigator on September 25, 2012, 04:01:54 AMI think the crazyest story I ever heard was a Squadron that gave a guy Lt Col and no one in the chain of command ever saw a DD-214.
How do you "give" someone Lt Col - that has to be approved by Region.
By passing on bogus paperwork and saying, he is a credit to his unit! >:D
Group, Wing and Region all fooled = EPIC FAIL
Nothing says they can't ask now...
Just to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, here is my story.
When I joined CAP in 1993, I couldn't find my 214(it was safely hidden in a safety deposit box), but I had copies of my retirement orders. Orders said that I retired as an O-6. Since my 214 was issued when I transferred to the Reserves as a Major, it would have been a non-starter. CAP accepted my retirement orders and I was "awarded" the rank of LtCol after I had served six months.
The 214 is not necessarily the best place to go to determine highest rank held.
Quote from: bosshawk on September 25, 2012, 04:33:40 PM
Just to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, here is my story.
When I joined CAP in 1993, I couldn't find my 214(it was safely hidden in a safety deposit box), but I had copies of my retirement orders. Orders said that I retired as an O-6. Since my 214 was issued when I transferred to the Reserves as a Major, it would have been a non-starter. CAP accepted my retirement orders and I was "awarded" the rank of LtCol after I had served six months.
The 214 is not necessarily the best place to go to determine highest rank held.
This isn't about military rank, though, Paul, even though I do take your meaning.
This is about guy claiming:
* Service (thus far unable to confirm)
* Decorations (fairly high-level decs, and ones that require certain kinds of action to achieve)
* Badges (we're talking aviation badges here, like "Completed UPT" stuff)
Also, the narrative is off.
* The timing doesn't work. College completion and claimed service aren't quite matching up. You should be a college graduate to be an officer, yet we appear to have a disparity as to when these things occurred. Then there is "how it occurred." ROTC is out, so that leaves OTS.
* UPT and advanced aircraft training take time. Time that doesn't fit into the timeline. There is no good gap for "I finished college in May, completed OTS in September, started UPT in November, moved to advanced training the following October , then was deployed with my first unit six months later, and did all this neato stuff" fits into a whole 'nuther series of datapoints that this person has supplied to other people, or CAP training events that this person was at as confirmed by people in the old wing.
* There are some claims to participation in well-known or well-documented actions in a deployed location that don't jibe with the above. So, if you were junior in high school in 2001 (this guy wasn't, just illustrating), chances are you were NOT one of the bearded SF guys riding horses out of the hills near Mazar-i Sharif, or you weren't in the squadron with the guy who dropped the JDAM accidentally on Hamid Karzai & Jason Amerine, or your former co-pilot isn't the guy who crunched the Herk in the runway under construction in Northern Iraq in 2004.
Subsequent information I have is that this guy's chain of command is aware of the issues with his claims of service, but no request for documentation is forthcoming from above.
As a good CAP/military friend of mine said "if you really care about your military service you'll know how to produce a 214."
This was after an actual incident like this incident.
Exactly.
At the end, it doesn't matter why you can't substantiate your service, either you can or you can't.
The 214 is one quick and easy way, but there are other reasonable options.
No paper, no bling, no excuses.
If anyone cares to substantiate my 4 weeks of AD then I have that paper.
NIN provided more info and I agree with what he says.
That said, one of my points was that a 214 does not, necessarily, cover the entire term of service for some individuals. As I pointed out, my 214 covers my 9.5 yrs of AD and none of the 20.5 years that I served in the Army Reserve. In fact, about half of my ribbons and decorations were earned during my Reserve time, so they don't show up on my 214. In order to substantiate my three Meritorious Service Medals, my promotion to LtCol and Col, I have orders covering them.
I see that the guy in question tried to put something over on his CoC and I understand the issues.
Now, on to a juicy uniform discussion.
All I know that if I ever find out some one is Stealing Valor, when I have had my friends around me die for this country. Stand By to Stand By. I have zero tolerance. Ive seen some stuff and have done some stuff, good and bad, but I never embelish on my service.
Relevant much? http://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/10ggq0/i_work_with_a_guy_who_makes_wild_claims_regarding/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/10ggq0/i_work_with_a_guy_who_makes_wild_claims_regarding/)
Quote from: sarmed1 on September 25, 2012, 01:25:33 PM
There is one floating around out there that I have seen that claims GO rank (MG actually last I saw when he was in AF uniform) but cant seem to find him listed on the USAF list of appointed or retired GO. He for sure used his rank to get a CAP appt as a Lt Col. A few years back could have sworn he was either recently retired or IRR caliminmg one star, saw him a few months back with 2 stars....someone else commented and he said he got called back for an assignment and promoted to the second star.....but now is officially retired.... that kicked the BS meter into the red zone....just havent had the time to do anything more than a causal internet search.
mk
I have came across two bogus Admirals over the years. One was actually the underachieving son of a real Navy Admiral. Of course the greatest Kentucky Colonel was Harlon Sanders but I wonder what his rank would be in CAP ::)
Col. Sanders would be running the fuel island, and aircraft would come not for AvGas, but for in-flight meal restocking, of that control finger lickin' good recipe..
A lot of people thought Colonel Saunders was a real Colonel too.
Quote from: Private Investigator on September 27, 2012, 08:13:04 AM
A lot of people thought Colonel Saunders was a real Colonel too.
That's Sanders, and he was a Kentucky Colonel, which is real enough to me. ;)
Didn't I read somewhere that Saunders WAS a Captain in CAP at one point?
Who cares, it's a hypothetical situation.
Reality is rough enough to deal with.
Quote from: bflynn on September 27, 2012, 08:16:20 PM
Who cares, it's a hypothetical situation.
Reality is rough enough to deal with.
Think about that assertion. Take your time.
Then come back and tell me how it turned out.
Quote from: bflynn on September 27, 2012, 08:16:20 PM
Who cares, it's a hypothetical situation.
Reality is rough enough to deal with.
Sure, its hypothetical. . . Just like "my friend" has a problem. Usually (not always), "my friend" is usually a euphemism for "me."
Quote from: RogueLeader on September 27, 2012, 09:57:46 PM
Sure, its hypothetical. . . Just like "my friend" has a problem. Usually (not always), "my friend" is usually a euphemism for "me."
Being retired and all, I can just sit back and say "my friend" is a euphemism for "my friend in CAP".
Quote from: NIN on September 27, 2012, 10:13:00 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on September 27, 2012, 09:57:46 PM
Sure, its hypothetical. . . Just like "my friend" has a problem. Usually (not always), "my friend" is usually a euphemism for "me."
Being retired and all, I can just sit back and say "my friend" is a euphemism for "my friend in CAP".
Like I said, Usually. ;)
Quote from: RogueLeader on September 27, 2012, 10:35:01 PM
Quote from: NIN on September 27, 2012, 10:13:00 PM
Quote from: RogueLeader on September 27, 2012, 09:57:46 PM
Sure, its hypothetical. . . Just like "my friend" has a problem. Usually (not always), "my friend" is usually a euphemism for "me."
Being retired and all, I can just sit back and say "my friend" is a euphemism for "my friend in CAP".
Like I said, Usually. ;)
But...I do have a friend! I do!
I agree that the DD Form 214 (maybe more than one) would be the best source for all awards & ribbons.
I would think some might also have all appointment, promotion, permanent change of station, discharge, and retirement orders. Perhaps Statement of Service. Also for any specific awards/decorations individuals might have the actual award certificates, awards narratives, awards orders, as well as the ribbon/medal/(mini ribbon?).
I think that it is shameful for anyone BUT especially a Civil Air Patrol adult member to wear unearned military awards/ribbons or aviation/occupational on their CAP AF type uniform, and they deserve to have their membership terminated since this is a significant integrity issue and could have a negative public relations effect on the organization.
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 28, 2012, 12:20:44 AM
I agree that the DD Form 214 (maybe more than one) would be the best source for all awards & ribbons.
I would think some might also have all appointment, promotion, permanent change of station, discharge, and retirement orders. Perhaps Statement of Service. Also for any specific awards/decorations individuals might have the actual award certificates, awards narratives, awards orders, as well as the ribbon/medal/(mini ribbon?).
I think that it is shameful for anyone BUT especially a Civil Air Patrol adult member to wear unearned military awards/ribbons or aviation/occupational on their CAP AF type uniform, and they deserve to have their membership terminated since this is a significant integrity issue and could have a negative public relations effect on the organization.
RM
I just checked with Satan and he asked me for some ice skates. I totally agree with you.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on September 28, 2012, 12:30:15 AM
I think that it is shameful for anyone BUT especially a Civil Air Patrol adult member to wear unearned military awards/ribbons or aviation/occupational on their CAP AF type uniform, and they deserve to have their membership terminated since this is a significant integrity issue and could have a negative public relations effect on the organization.
I'll send you the email address of the individual in question's commander, maybe you can make a better point. LOL.
Hey.. you attributed that quote to the wrong person...
Quote from: a2capt on September 28, 2012, 03:57:06 AM
Hey.. you attributed that quote to the wrong person...
HEY! He's right! How dare you defame me??? :'(
Fix0red it. Sorry guys. I blame my fingers.
Quote from: NIN on September 28, 2012, 04:26:42 AM
Fix0red it. Sorry guys. I blame my fingers.
More like getting olde! >:D
Quote from: NIN on September 28, 2012, 04:26:42 AM
Fix0red it. Sorry guys. I blame my fingers.
's cool bro. 8)
I'm about half tempted to out this guy publicly right here on CAP-Talk.
To quote Red Leader "Just a few more seconds..."
if there was a like button here, I would be liking NIN's idea......
Quote from: sarmed1 on September 28, 2012, 03:21:17 PM
if there was a like button here, I would be liking NIN's idea......
If there was a "Like" button here, all the
adults would leave...
Quote from: Eclipse on September 28, 2012, 03:31:03 PM
If there was a "Like" button here, all the adults would leave...
:clap: :) ;) :D ;D :clap:
Quote from: NIN on September 28, 2012, 02:36:08 PM
I'm about half tempted to out this guy publicly right here on CAP-Talk.
To quote Red Leader "Just a few more seconds..."
You ain't got a hair on your arse if you don't! Have they even been online lately?
Quote from: Stonewall on September 28, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
You ain't got a hair on your arse if you don't! Have they even been online lately?
You just called me out on a Faker Bust? Oh, man.
Oh come on. Just cut to the chase. Sick Kenny on 'em.
Quote from: NIN on September 28, 2012, 04:55:17 PM
Quote from: Stonewall on September 28, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
You ain't got a hair on your arse if you don't! Have they even been online lately?
You just called me out on a Faker Bust? Oh, man.
Oh, it's ON!
A lot of people have basically said "Hell yeah! Throw them to the wolves."
But, think about it. What if this was a person who was well known, in a key position in your group, wing, or region? Would you really have the guts to "out" them? Embarass them in front of their friends? Their supporters? Their followers?
One thing that never changes, much like convicted sex offenders, is that with fakers, everyone is ALWAYS surprised. "I never thought he was a faker...blows me away!"
You'd be surprised!
Quote from: Stonewall on September 28, 2012, 06:00:28 PMBut, think about it. What if this was a person who was well known, in a key position in your group, wing, or region? Would you really have the guts to "out" them? Embarass them in front of their friends? Their supporters? Their followers?
Yes.
Someone who is inclined to lie about something like this, which is both trivial and important at the same time, is very likely to
fudge other things when he deems it necessary. That doesn't mean a public lynching, but in a private situation, absolutley.
Quote from: Stonewall on September 28, 2012, 06:00:28 PM
A lot of people have basically said "Hell yeah! Throw them to the wolves."
When the story seems to add up to that, people get angry. Of course, if he is legit, he can always prove it and get an apology.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on September 28, 2012, 06:17:02 PM
Quote from: Stonewall on September 28, 2012, 06:00:28 PM
A lot of people have basically said "Hell yeah! Throw them to the wolves."
When the story seems to add up to that, people get angry. Of course, if he is legit, he can always prove it and get an apology.
What if this "HE" is an "SHE, you never know!
Quote from: usafaux2004 on September 28, 2012, 06:17:02 PM
Quote from: Stonewall on September 28, 2012, 06:00:28 PM
A lot of people have basically said "Hell yeah! Throw them to the wolves."
When the story seems to add up to that, people get angry. Of course, if he is legit, he can always prove it and get an apology.
This is part of the reason I'm holding off a bit. It is very, very difficult to "prove a negative," and repeated FOIA requests have come back as "no record found". Does that mean our request is malformed, or there really is "no records" for this guy?
As much as I like busting fakers, I dislike being wrong and accusing someone of something they're not doing due to bad info. Which is why I'm trying to get additional info.
Quote from: NIN on September 28, 2012, 06:51:03 PMAs much as I like busting fakers, I dislike being wrong and accusing someone of something they're not doing due to bad info. Which is why I'm trying to get additional info.
That's the best stance.
Another tactic I have used is revalidating everyone in the unit as a whole "We've seen some issues in CAP, and need to make sure everyone
can substamtiate everything they are wearing, CAP or otherwise. Please bring in those documents for review by X date."
Well, the bird is in the air. My deputy and I turned keys. Now we sit back in our snuggies and slippers and wait for the fireworks.
Well, if it's like the latest flight of the X-51A, it won't be long now ...
Here's a non-hypothetical situation that is going to land a former CAP squadron commander in the Federal pokey...
http://www.wbir.com/rss/article/231612/2/Man-pleads-guilty-to-lying-about-military-service-to-receive-benefits (http://www.wbir.com/rss/article/231612/2/Man-pleads-guilty-to-lying-about-military-service-to-receive-benefits)
He was a unit commander here in my wing when I moved here in 1998. Totally full of crap, telling people he was involved in Frequent Wind, Eagle Pull, Eagle Claw, etc. His stories stank to high heaven to anybody who knew anything about the latter months of our involvement in Southeast Asia.
He was a traditional ANG guy, full-time city firefighter, fire marshal in the town he lived in, and worked part time as a "security guard" at the AF Space Command tracking station in that same town. Strange fires kept breaking out on the base when he happened to be working, and eventually he was busted for arson, and it was found he had stolen ANG property in his house. Lost his firefighter job, got bounced out of the guard, eventually moved away.
He wound up in Knoxville, TN and eventually went on to add the Mayaguez Raid to his resume, it appears.
(the POW Network/FakeWarriors folks got their teeth into it here: http://www.fakewarriors.org/horv/horv_920.htm (http://www.fakewarriors.org/horv/horv_920.htm))
For those of you who TL:DR: He got caught. And outed. And eventually indicted and plead guilty to defrauding the USG of > $450,000. He'll be sentenced in December. Chances are he'll get upwards of 10 years, maybe as many as 30.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2075205_spot-phony-military-veteran.html (http://www.ehow.com/how_2075205_spot-phony-military-veteran.html)
Great way to Spot that Phony Vet.
Quote from: Devil Doc on September 30, 2012, 06:58:25 PM
http://www.ehow.com/how_2075205_spot-phony-military-veteran.html (http://www.ehow.com/how_2075205_spot-phony-military-veteran.html)
Great way to Spot that Phony Vet.
I spotted a phony two years in a row at my town's Memorial Day parade. First year, we're marching in the parade and I spot a guy in Navy short-sleeve whites on the right side of the parade route, and he doesn't render courtesy to the colors. As I get closer, he's an officer, like a full LT, and wearing a fairly full stack of fruit salad for an O-3. Oh, look: He's got a Budweiser above the ribbons. But of course he does. Then I start to notice the inconsistencies: t-shirt hanging out of the sleeves, trousers are cuffed, not hemmed like normal, the guy has arms that would make most poorly drawn stick figures green with envy. There is no way this guy is Navy, let alone a SEAL.
I see him in the capital plaza afterwards and I'm trying to get some pics of him, but he disappears. I find the parade organizer, a ANG SF MSgt, and let him know that there is a Navy guy afoot who I am pretty sure is not legit.
The next year, we're getting ready for the parade in the parking lot used as the marhsaling area and I spot uniforms hanging from the clothes hook in the back window of this quite decrepit Toyota Tercel with out-of-state plates. Oh, look: Its a set of OD green BDU-style uniforms with a trident over the US Navy tag. I think this is our boy.
I snapped a couple pics of the car & the unis and kept my eyes open for the guy, but I never did see him.
Later that year or the next, he got busted in Vermont for similar shenanigans
http://www.fakewarriors.org/phonies/phonies1248.htm (http://www.fakewarriors.org/phonies/phonies1248.htm)
Scroll down to "Phillips, Matthew"
Just a note:
Some of us non-fakers won't have DD 214s yet and the paperwork justifying it can be really a PITA to read.
I could print out my awards/decs page from vMPF for all my AF ribbons, but for my 3 badges it gets more complicated.
You would need to be able to read a SURF and know the rules that go with the space badge vs the missile badge to decipher that I can wear those two.
The jump wings are a little harder because they are not for an aeronautical rating so the AF isn't tracking them (it kinda doesn't care much because most officers who have them got them from the AFA.)
My point for this is simply that you can't say 'DD 214 or you can't wear it!' And some of the paperwork to justify stuff is so hard to read it's nearly unfake-able because it is undecipherable if you haven't been trained to read it.
I don't think I have any paper work for my master maintenance badge.
Got your seven level, got your time in the AFSC, put on MSgt you went out and got your Master Badge.
Quote from: lordmonar on October 02, 2012, 04:47:55 AM
I don't think I have any paper work for my master maintenance badge.
Got your seven level, got your time in the AFSC, put on MSgt you went out and got your Master Badge.
Dude, there IS "paperwork" for your Master Maintenance Badge. It may be a transaction that your orderly room did on vMPF.
But it is there and it should have shown up on your DD214.
Sounds like it's time for a Correction of Military Records.
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on October 02, 2012, 04:33:47 AMSome of us non-fakers won't have DD 214s yet and the paperwork justifying it can be really a PITA to read..
I'm pretty confident that the gist of that wasn't DD 214 or no go, but rather just use something to substantiate it. Which typically is a DD-214, but not always.
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on October 02, 2012, 04:33:47 AM
Just a note:
Some of us non-fakers won't have DD 214s yet and the paperwork justifying it can be really a PITA to read.
I could print out my awards/decs page from vMPF for all my AF ribbons, but for my 3 badges it gets more complicated.
You would need to be able to read a SURF and know the rules that go with the space badge vs the missile badge to decipher that I can wear those two.
The jump wings are a little harder because they are not for an aeronautical rating so the AF isn't tracking them (it kinda doesn't care much because most officers who have them got them from the AFA.)
My point for this is simply that you can't say 'DD 214 or you can't wear it!' And some of the paperwork to justify stuff is so hard to read it's nearly unfake-able because it is undecipherable if you haven't been trained to read it.
Nothing is ever concrete, i.e. you won't have a DD214 for someone actively serving in the military. But if you're active duty and wearing some bogus crap, you've got a lot more to worry about than getting in trouble with CAP. I'm pretty sure a school certificate (Airborne, Air Assault, SCUBA, etc.) would be sufficient.
Not even speaking to the particular service items (badges, ribbons/award), sometimes the poseurs don't get how things work in the "RealMilitary™" and their stuff just doesn't work. For example, if you started as a Cav Scout, you're probably not going to be in Delta Force in your 2nd enlistment. If you went to UPT in 2006, chances are you're NOT flying as an Aircraft Commander in 2007. You don't go to OTS and wind up flying F-16s unless you are _the_ highest-speed officer in the Air Force.
And then there are claims like "Well, I was in a B-52 crash in the Indian Ocean" (Note: I have not had anybody claim this). There are only so many B-52s, only so many have crashed in the Indian Ocean, and it takes about 12 seconds of Google to get everybody's name on the crew of the one that did.. Were you the guy sitting on the floor between the Bomb/Nav and the DSO?
In the case of my friend's AF officer, he claims (among other things) to have punched out of a jet, leaving a smoking hole in the side of a mountain in the CENTCOM AOR. Well, there are only so many ejections over that area, and plane buffs document darn near every airframe loss by tail number. It won't be hard to confirm the loss. "You say you lawn-darted a Mudhen in June of 2007 in A-Stan? Thats funny, the AF doesn't list any loss of an F-15E, or any F-15 Class A accident at all from April to October 2007..." (not sure if that is the case, but I'm just using that as an example)
Eventually, they trip over their own stories. "You got your left-seat checkout in April of 2009? Didn't you say you were the AC for a paradrop mission in 2007?"
A DD214 is only one of a number of ways to substantiate things. If you want advanced promotion, what NHQ will accept is probably
more limited than what would be acceptable locally to a Unit CC in terms of badges and decorations.
I'd even accept a sworn affidavit for things that were my local call - that at least puts the onus on the member and
raises the stakes to legitimate fraud for fakers.
I didnt get advanced rank :(
E4 was my highest Rank, so ya 2nd Lt is much higher :)
What's funny is that I am far from an aviation enthusiest, but I do love me an air show. And since AE was forced down my throat in CAP as a cadet so I could promote, I do have better than average knowledge of military aircraft and even some civil aviation things with wings.
I find it funny when me, a ground pounder wanna-be type, busts a dude/dudette for faking some sort of pilot rating. Seriously? An F-15 Hornet? Come on, you gotta know the rules before you can break'em.
We all know that the F-15 Hornet was the carrier version of the Eagle ::)
Quote from: eaker.cadet on October 02, 2012, 06:13:27 PM
We all know that the F-15 Hornet was the carrier version of the Eagle ::)
Well....I could talk about that project but it was classified Top Secrit Majectic-5 so I would have to flashy thing you afterwards! >:D
Quote from: eaker.cadet on October 02, 2012, 06:13:27 PM
We all know that the F-15 Hornet was the carrier version of the Eagle ::)
I thought it was called Seagull?
Ha god one^
Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 02, 2012, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: eaker.cadet on October 02, 2012, 06:13:27 PM
We all know that the F-15 Hornet was the carrier version of the Eagle ::)
I thought it was called Seagull?
Rookie! It's called the Seahawk!!! >:D
The F-15N Sea Eagle was proposed in the '70s.
A modeller on HyperScale (one of my favourite sites) did a very good modification of an F-15E kit to depict a hypothetical Sea Eagle:
(http://hyperscale.com/features/2002/images/f15ndr_1.jpg)
Thanks to Darren Mottram for the excellent modelling experiment!
Quote from: PHall on October 02, 2012, 07:29:29 PM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 02, 2012, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: eaker.cadet on October 02, 2012, 06:13:27 PM
We all know that the F-15 Hornet was the carrier version of the Eagle ::)
I thought it was called Seagull?
Rookie! It's called the Seahawk!!! >:D
Nice try.
The Seahawk is the Navy version of the H-60.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 02, 2012, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 02, 2012, 07:29:29 PM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 02, 2012, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: eaker.cadet on October 02, 2012, 06:13:27 PM
We all know that the F-15 Hornet was the carrier version of the Eagle ::)
I thought it was called Seagull?
Rookie! It's called the Seahawk!!! >:D
Nice try.
The Seahawk is the Navy version of the H-60.
No, that's the "Splashhawk". Which is the wet version of the Crashhawk.
Sorry, not buying that. It has been a very reliable platform since its introduction in the early '80s.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 03, 2012, 02:06:32 AM
Sorry, not buying that. It has been a very reliable platform since its introduction in the early '80s.
Negative, Ghostrider. I spent 3 years in Korea plucking UH-60s off mountainsides....
Quote from: NIN on October 03, 2012, 02:15:42 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on October 03, 2012, 02:06:32 AM
Sorry, not buying that. It has been a very reliable platform since its introduction in the early '80s.
Negative, Ghostrider. I spent 3 years in Korea plucking UH-60s off mountainsides....
The Seahawk is the SH-60 and subsequent variants. The Crashhawk was an earlier, apparently less reliable version. My comments were directed solely toward the Seahawk.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 03, 2012, 02:18:13 AM
The Seahawk is the SH-60 and subsequent variants. The Crashhawk was an earlier, apparently less reliable version. My comments were directed solely toward the Seahawk.
If people gotta tell themselves "The Seahawk is a much more reliable variant of the Blackhawk" to get on them, who am I to disabuse them of their logical fallacy? The Seahawk is essentially a UH-60 with a folding tailboom (shipboard ops mod), the tailwheel forward of the tail fold (shipboard ops mod), electric blade fold (shipboad ops mod), slightly different landing gear struts (shipboard ops mod), uprated T700s (I wonder, now, if they're not all using the same version of the T700?) and mods for the LAMPS mission.
Otherwise, its a
Crashhawk, er, Blackhawk.
Thats like saying that the Chevy Aveo is more reliable than the Daewoo Gentra. With the exception of the Chevy badge on the grille, its the same darn thing! :)
This is, BTW, a substantial topic drift.
Crashhawks are fun to talk about, however.
CH-47 Guy (Me): "Hey, man, you know how you get a Blackhawk to fly faster than 80 kts below 3000 ft?"
Unsuspecting Newbie UH-60 guy: "No, how?"
CH-47 Guy: "Sling load it."
(during the middle-80s, UH-60s were restricted to 80kts or less below 3000 ft due to their propensity for lawn-darting themselves into the countryside on a random basis. We plucked a lot of wrecks off mountains and rice paddys in South Korea between 1986 and 1989. A big airmobile with CH-47s and UH-60s would result in the -60s departing for the PZs 30+ minutes before the Chinooks so we'd all get to the LZs in the correct sequence. That wait was referred to sometimes as the "Blackhawk Break")
Further topic drift: anytime that the wing goes faster than the fuselage, it is a helicopter and, therefore, inherently dangerous.
That said by a fixed wing guy.
Quote from: bosshawk on October 03, 2012, 04:13:01 PM
Further topic drift: anytime that the wing goes faster than the fuselage, it is a helicopter and, therefore, inherently dangerous.
That said by a fixed wing guy.
To riff on a Monty Python meme: "Mynd yøu, Bläckhäwk crashes Kan be reali nästi..."
Ive seen an CH-53E Super Stallion go down in Iraq. Wasn't a pretty sight. It got caught in the rotor wash of another Super Stallion while landing. BTW this accident is not listed anywhere in the Crash Data base.
Quote from: NIN on October 03, 2012, 04:25:37 PM
Quote from: bosshawk on October 03, 2012, 04:13:01 PM
Further topic drift: anytime that the wing goes faster than the fuselage, it is a helicopter and, therefore, inherently dangerous.
That said by a fixed wing guy.
To riff on a Monty Python meme: "Mynd yøu, Bläckhäwk crashes Kan be reali nästi..."
My sister once got bitten by a blackhawk......:)
Quote from: lordmonar on October 03, 2012, 06:32:48 PM
My sister once got bitten by a blackhawk......:)
whats that phrase? "I'd rather have a sister in a .. " uh, forget I said anything...
Quote from: NIN on September 28, 2012, 07:55:08 PM
Well, the bird is in the air. My deputy and I turned keys. Now we sit back in our snuggies and slippers and wait for the fireworks.
The guys in St Louis must be working overtime.
FOIA request returned. Enlisted service. Not officer.
So I put it to you guys: this guy is not an AF Officer, not an AF pilot, not really any of the things he claimed to be.
If you're the commander, what do you do?
2b.
Wellllll....one could argue he committed a crime impersonating a USAF Officer and attempted to use it for his own personal gain. I'd say at the very least remove him from CAP.
As to the public shaming or not...that I leave up to you. Part of me (prolly the real officer part me) leans toward yes, especially as it could help prevent him from doing it again. While another part of me says to just dismiss the guy and move on with life.
Well, for one. I'd be sending a copy to his last wing, after I put it in his face.
Enlisted service, for a career's worth, or 1 term?
Quote from: a2capt on October 13, 2012, 01:53:10 AM
Well, for one. I'd be sending a copy to his last wing, after I put it in his face.
Enlisted service, for a career's worth, or 1 term?
Doesn't really matter. Most likely a short-termer given his actions described here...
If anyone cared at the other end .. they might see how easy a faker can be, and do their own footwork next time.
2b him out and move on. "Public shaming" could precipitate legal action against CAP. Don't run that risk over garbage.
Report him to one of the Stolen Valor websites such as www.fakewarriors.org (http://www.fakewarriors.org) (its run by the people that do pownetwork.org). If he's lied to CAP about his service think of the countless others he's lied to as well. There is no liability in disclosing information you gained via FOIA.
Quote from: JK657 on October 13, 2012, 04:05:42 AM
Report him to one of the Stolen Valor websites such as www.fakewarriors.org (http://www.fakewarriors.org) (its run by the people that do pownetwork.org). If he's lied to CAP about his service think of the countless others he's lied to as well. There is no liability in disclosing information you gained via FOIA.
Well, the missiles are in the terminal descent phase. I think its in the commander's hands.
Quote from: AirDX on October 13, 2012, 03:46:29 AM
2b him out and move on. "Public shaming" could precipitate legal action against CAP. Don't run that risk over garbage.
What legal action? The truth is an affirmative defense.
Yeah, I can't say that you can sue someone for telling the truth.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on October 13, 2012, 03:30:02 PM
Yeah, I can't say that you can sue someone for telling the truth.
You
can, just don't expect to
win.
Quote from: NIN on October 13, 2012, 11:08:16 AM
Quote from: JK657 on October 13, 2012, 04:05:42 AM
Report him to one of the Stolen Valor websites such as www.fakewarriors.org (http://www.fakewarriors.org) (its run by the people that do pownetwork.org). If he's lied to CAP about his service think of the countless others he's lied to as well. There is no liability in disclosing information you gained via FOIA.
Well, the missiles are in the terminal descent phase. I think its in the commander's hands.
Seriously, are you trying to get me to giggle and clap with glee? People always use aircraft as a metaphor rather than ballistic missiles!
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on October 13, 2012, 04:01:25 PM
Seriously, are you trying to get me to giggle and clap with glee? People always use aircraft as a metaphor rather than ballistic missiles!
No, but it works for you I'm glad
Quote from: jimmydeanno on October 13, 2012, 03:30:02 PM
Yeah, I can't say that you can sue someone for telling the truth.
Be careful about legal advice given freely on internet chat rooms by non-lawyers.
As it turns out there are several situations where someone can successfully sue and recover substantial amounts of money from third parties who publish information about them on the interwebs.
Even truthful information.
IOW, "
truth is a NOT a defense" to actions for some torts related to Invasion of Privacy. Specifically, Public Disclosure of Private Facts and False Light.
But hey, don't take my word for it. Here's the Wikipedia Article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_laws_of_the_United_States).
Now, I doubt that these particular torts would apply to outing a "stolen valor" individual. Private Facts is designed to protect individals from public dissemination of little-known, private facts like "Ned Lee had an STD when he was 15 and was suspected of cheating on the SATs." Or "Susie Smith had an abortion while she was in college."
But I did want to correct the assertions to the effect that "truth is always a defense" to publishing facts about an individual.
Ned Lee
Former CAP Legal Officer
Quote from: Ned on October 13, 2012, 04:38:53 PMBut hey, don't take my word for it. Here's the Wikipedia Article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_laws_of_the_United_States).
Frankly, I would -rather- take
your word for it, over Wikipedia. ;)
Just on the fact that it's quite plausible that crowd sourced data .. could be .. ahem .. wrong? .. opinionated ..or .. :)
Ned speaks the truth (pun intended).
When someone grossly distorts and holds themselves out to be qualified for something, or having completed something, and you show information to the contrary (ie. "I'm a graduate of MIT." "Sorry, MIT's never heard of you." "I'm suing you and MIT! Libelous bastards! You'll pay for this!"), thats hard to bring suit against.
If I plastered photos of you and your girlfriend all over the LA Times, much to the chagrin of your wife, even though that is true, it probably will bring about a lawsuit. :)
Quote from: Ned on October 13, 2012, 04:38:53 PM
"Ned Lee had an STD when he was 15 and was suspected of cheating on the SATs."
SHOCKING, and of course it MUST be true because it is on the internet! >:D
Quote from: NCRblues on October 13, 2012, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Ned on October 13, 2012, 04:38:53 PM
"Ned Lee had an STD when he was 15 and was suspected of cheating on the SATs."
SHOCKING, and of course it MUST be true because it is on the internet! >:D
Bonjour?
Quote from: NCRblues on October 13, 2012, 07:54:13 PM
Quote from: Ned on October 13, 2012, 04:38:53 PM
"Ned Lee had an STD when he was 15 and was suspected of cheating on the SATs."
SHOCKING, and of course it MUST be true because it is on the internet! >:D
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/372/645/731.gif)
In regard to the orginal question, tell the guy to put up or shut up.
Otherwise, I would contact his new squadron commander and just ask some simple questions.
You don't leave an original DD Form 214 with anyone -- except the VA or a county veterans service agency -- where it's usually just copied and returned to the owner. It's just too precious of a document.
You can always get around things. CCAF transcript, or that multiple page form that documents service training and experience by AFSC....or the tech school diplomas. If he's wearing some sort of decoration, have him show you the other award elements (the orders, citation and award certificate). I did that once to prove that I held a Commendation Medal awarded for non-combat valor (at a plane crash -- and no I didn't rescue anyone, and no I don't want to talk about it)..
Funny, I'm aware of a CAP member who came from another wing, sprouting master observer wings and that master ground team badge without proof -- even in e-services. You can't just throw him out, but it didn't take long for him to be ostracised by the rest of the group because what do you do with a guy like that during a mission?
Then there conviently were no records in the former wing.
Now he just stays within the confines of a geographically separated flight, almost ignored.
Just as a sidenote on DD214s, I was advised by the nice lady that processed my 214 at Ft. Shafter to take it to the county courthouse and have it registered with the county clerks office. That way if you do happen to lose the original(mine is somewhere in my house right now but I couldn't tell you exactly where), you can go to the clerk's office and get a notarized copy that is legal anywhere.
Quote from: ol'fido on October 14, 2012, 09:38:09 PM
Just as a sidenote on DD214s, I was advised by the nice lady that processed my 214 at Ft. Shafter to take it to the county courthouse and have it registered with the county clerks office. That way if you do happen to lose the original(mine is somewhere in my house right now but I couldn't tell you exactly where), you can go to the clerk's office and get a notarized copy that is legal anywhere.
I was similarly advised and did infact get the same thing (and in the last 10 years requested a copy of same)
Quote from: flyboy1 on October 14, 2012, 11:57:01 AM
<snip>
Funny, I'm aware of a CAP member who came from another wing, sprouting master observer wings and that master ground team badge without proof -- even in e-services. You can't just throw him out, but it didn't take long for him to be ostracised by the rest of the group because what do you do with a guy like that during a mission?
Then there conviently were no records in the former wing.
Yeah, I think you would have grounds for a 2B on the "false statements to or concerning Civil Air Patrol" codicil.
Quote from: Ned on October 13, 2012, 04:38:53 PM
Be careful about legal advice given freely on internet chat rooms by non-lawyers.
Ned's right on all counts. And, parallel to that, there's also an issue we ink-stained wretches sometimes come across, where people are or aren't public figures. Some people are limited public figures, meaning that they open themselves up to scrutiny/comment on issues for which they stick their necks out publicly. What you can report/publish about people can vary based on their amount of public exposure and the relevance of the information to how someone is or isn't a public figure. If that makes sense. Truth alone doesn't cut it.
For that matter, falsehood doesn't always guarantee damages. Certainly, someone has to intend malice. Newsgathering being a human profession, there will be mistakes made occasionally, but every effort must be made to correct the record.
"Newsroom lawyers" (like me and anyone else who loved journalism ethics courses in college) split hairs on ethics and legal issues all the time, but the biggies, we call in the big guns -- the people who actually have JDs. Every newspaper has access to an attorney. Bigger papers (like mine) have a shark or two in-house, either as a legal counsel or maybe as a reporter who just happens to be a recovering lawyer.
So if we who are professional ink slingers and electron passers need to seek lawyers sometimes, imagine what you need to do. :P
FWIW. YMMV. YOLO. LSMFT. WYSIWYG. And other meaningless acronyms.
20KT strike. Smoking crater. Mission accomplished.
Not.enough.details.
Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 15, 2012, 06:00:08 PM
Not.enough.details.
"At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge."
When I read the guidelines on the National Archives site, I get the impression that FOIA requests are basically only for DD-214's or data that is 62 years or older. I don't get the impression that the target here is that old.
Since you all probably didn't fit the kin description, what exactly do you ask for, and what did you get?
Quote from: NIN on October 14, 2012, 11:17:17 PM
Quote from: flyboy1 on October 14, 2012, 11:57:01 AM
<snip>
Funny, I'm aware of a CAP member who came from another wing, sprouting master observer wings and that master ground team badge without proof -- even in e-services. You can't just throw him out, but it didn't take long for him to be ostracised by the rest of the group because what do you do with a guy like that during a mission?
Then there conviently were no records in the former wing.
Yeah, I think you would have grounds for a 2B on the "false statements to or concerning Civil Air Patrol" codicil.
I have all my paperwork for my GT badge and MO wings, but they're not in eservices. Do I ask DP to upload them, or is this sufficient to satisfy anyone who asks? Pretty much everyone here in my unit knows, but I've transferred back and forth a couple times to another wing.
Quote from: Garibaldi on October 15, 2012, 07:16:08 PMI have all my paperwork for my GT badge and MO wings, but they're not in eservices. Do I ask DP to upload them, or is this sufficient to satisfy anyone who asks? Pretty much everyone here in my unit knows, but I've transferred back and forth a couple times to another wing.
They should be submitted and approved in eServices, there's a place for badges now. Once done, you never have to think about it again.
For your Ground Team Badge you will want to log into Eservices>My Operations Qualifications>ES Awards under Emergency Services and check the appropriate award then click submit.
For your Mission Observer Wings you will want to log into Eservices>My Operations Qualifications>CAP Ratings under Pilot and check the appropriate rating then click submit.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: a2capt on October 15, 2012, 06:17:26 PM
When I read the guidelines on the National Archives site, I get the impression that FOIA requests are basically only for DD-214's or data that is 62 years or older. I don't get the impression that the target here is that old.
Since you all probably didn't fit the kin description, what exactly do you ask for, and what did you get?
You can actually request quite a bit via the SF-180, but often the National Archives will only supply you a summary document.
You *can* get a redacted 214 that does not include PII like SSN and home of record, and stuff like character of service or discharge type. Which is weird, because you'd think the kind of need for a request like this would at least want the type of discharge.
Obviously, if there is medical info, that is redacted.
I requested stuff from the Marine Corps a month or so back, and got a TON of stuff (all of it redacted to an extent) to include the SGLI forms, etc. The Marine Corps has a different request system than the Army & Air Force does.
Quote from: ol'fido on October 14, 2012, 09:38:09 PM
Just as a sidenote on DD214s, I was advised by the nice lady that processed my 214 at Ft. Shafter to take it to the county courthouse and have it registered with the county clerks office. That way if you do happen to lose the original(mine is somewhere in my house right now but I couldn't tell you exactly where), you can go to the clerk's office and get a notarized copy that is legal anywhere.
Lately they've been telling people not to registered, because it makes the DD-214 (and your SSN) available to anyone who asks for it.
Quote from: NIN on October 15, 2012, 05:20:16 PM
20KT strike. Smoking crater. Mission accomplished.
20kt from an ICBM? That my friend was a fizzle. :-(
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on October 16, 2012, 01:34:13 AM
Quote from: NIN on October 15, 2012, 05:20:16 PM
20KT strike. Smoking crater. Mission accomplished.
20kt from an ICBM? That my friend was a fizzle. :-(
More likely a SRAM, an ALCM or possibly a Hound Dog! >:D
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on October 16, 2012, 01:34:13 AM
Quote from: NIN on October 15, 2012, 05:20:16 PM
20KT strike. Smoking crater. Mission accomplished.
20kt from an ICBM? That my friend was a fizzle. :-(
Surgical. Low yield.
Quote from: NIN on October 16, 2012, 02:20:02 AM
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on October 16, 2012, 01:34:13 AM
Quote from: NIN on October 15, 2012, 05:20:16 PM
20KT strike. Smoking crater. Mission accomplished.
20kt from an ICBM? That my friend was a fizzle. :-(
Surgical. Low yield.
Several hundred kilotons can be quite surgical and well placed. Amputation is a type of surgery... >:D
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on October 16, 2012, 02:26:47 AM
Several hundred kilotons can be quite surgical and well placed. Amputation is a type of surgery... >:D
I will concede and yield to your knowledge in this regard.
Quote from: NIN on October 16, 2012, 12:06:07 AM
I requested stuff from the Marine Corps a month or so back, and got a TON of stuff (all of it redacted to an extent) to include the SGLI forms, etc. The Marine Corps has a different request system than the Army & Air Force does.
Hey! Stop requesting my records! >:( ;) :D
Amen! We all have DD-214s. If Sqdrn COs were more on the ball, they would ask for military discharge papers. They are important. Vets know they may need medical help when they can't afford it, or help if they become homeless.
Quote from: Lab Lover on October 20, 2012, 04:07:40 AM
Amen! We all have DD-214s. If Sqdrn COs were more on the ball, they would ask for military discharge papers. They are important. Vets know they may need medical help when they can't afford it, or help if they become homeless.
Again, please note that not all are out of active duty, or even spent much time on AD. So some members may only have the orders for awards etc.
And when Squadron/Group/Wing Commanders (in this case, all three I'm guessing) don't request military service records or take the time to check the ones they have received, .... -
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=32709#comments (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=32709#comments)
(Caution: Some comments contain language NSFC)
Quote from: Bobble on November 05, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
And when Squadron/Group/Wing Commanders (in this case, all three I'm guessing) don't request military service records or take the time to check the ones they have received, .... -
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=32709#comments (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=32709#comments)
(Caution: Some comments contain language NSFC)
GRRRRR!
Why, why, why, why, WHY do people do GOOBERISH things like this? And why did it have to be MY Wing?
:-\
Sounds like she was trying to piggy back the Tammy Duckworth story.
Quote from: ProdigalJim on November 05, 2012, 11:07:29 PM
Quote from: Bobble on November 05, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
And when Squadron/Group/Wing Commanders (in this case, all three I'm guessing) don't request military service records or take the time to check the ones they have received, .... -
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=32709#comments (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=32709#comments)
(Caution: Some comments contain language NSFC)
GRRRRR!
Why, why, why, why, WHY do people do GOOBERISH things like this? And why did it have to be MY Wing?
:-\
People only get away with these things when they're allowed to. If a member of your unit starts wearing or claiming some high-level awards (or heck, any military decorations) you should always ask for the DD-214 or NGB-22. If commanders demanded proof, this wouldn't happen in CAP.
Quote from: Bobble on November 05, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
And when Squadron/Group/Wing Commanders (in this case, all three I'm guessing) don't request military service records or take the time to check the ones they have received, .... -
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=32709#comments (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=32709#comments)
(Caution: Some comments contain language NSFC)
Did you notice that she has the CAP Meritorious Service Award and multiple ComComs besides being a member of Wing Staff? And how did she get to Major? :o
Quote from: Private Investigator on November 06, 2012, 01:41:44 AM
Did you notice that she has the CAP Meritorious Service Award and multiple ComComs besides being a member of Wing Staff? And how did she get to Major? :o
(http://thisainthell.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Michelle-Anderson-Tesla.jpg)
For the most part, her CAP awards are likely legit, as well as her rank. I know people that went to RSC with her this past year.
Looks like an Eaker recipient. If guilty of these accusations, I'd say it should be revoked, like what they do to Spaatzen who mess up similarly.
^ except she is not wearing level 3 so... in her haste to add the purple heart she must have forgot to add level 3 >:D
"All, Some, or None". "Oh, gee, I forgot to put that one on"...
She certainly isn't shy about posting pictures on her FB.
Well, I've never met her and don't know her story. I can attest to the fact that not all my awards appear on any or all of my DD214's or my NGB22...I do have the documentation to prove those awards but heck...none of my DD214's even appear in my online Veteran's Service Record. I would at least give her the benefit of doubt and let her story be heard before being found guilty in the court of public opinion.
Quote from: SARDOC on November 06, 2012, 02:46:10 AM
I would at least give her the benefit of doubt and let her story be heard before being found guilty in the court of public opinion.
Those guys at "This Ain't Hell" do their homework. While there is always a margin of error, I think it's highly unlikely that her DD214 is messed up so bad that it failed to show combat service in Iraq, Purple Heart, army pilot wings, OIF participation, or her rank as an officer. Instead, it shows under 2 years of enlisted service.
I'm not saying there isn't the potential for something to be missing, but that is A LOT to have screwed up on your 214. And trust me, I too speak from experience. Not a single one of my 214/22s are 100% accurate, but together, with supporting vMPF/AFPRC documents, I can prove all the crap I've earned, which is a lot as far as quantity, but not so impressive when it comes to quality.
Quote from: SARDOC on November 06, 2012, 02:46:10 AM
Well, I've never met her and don't know her story. I can attest to the fact that not all my awards appear on any or all of my DD214's or my NGB22...I do have the documentation to prove those awards but heck...none of my DD214's even appear in my online Veteran's Service Record. I would at least give her the benefit of doubt and let her story be heard before being found guilty in the court of public opinion.
It is *highly* unlikely that you're going to be a medically "retired" Captain combat veteran UH-60 pilot and Purple Heart recipient and NONE of that is reflected in ANY of your records, and instead only has you as a PFC with less than 2 years of total service.
I been to one World's Fair, a picnic and a rodeo and that's the gol-darndest thing I ever read on the Innnerwebs..
While I also find it hard to believe, does anybody have a have a hi-res image enough to discern those are actually those are pilot wings and not the Army Aircrew wings that appear in her record.
Quote from: SARDOC on November 06, 2012, 03:12:54 AM
While I also find it hard to believe, does anybody have a have a hi-res image enough to discern those are actually those are pilot wings and not the Army Aircrew wings that appear in her record.
Yes
Interesting reading through some of the comments on that site related to her. Obviously many people who dont have any idea what CAP is. One of the posts on that site said she has recently resigned from CAP over "politics".
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 06, 2012, 04:21:00 PM
Interesting reading through some of the comments on that site related to her. Obviously many people who dont have any idea what CAP is. One of the posts on that site said she has recently resigned from CAP over "politics".
"Politics" of being called out and NOT being able to provide verifiable documents as to her earning combat awards, pilot wings, a commission, or anything more than <2 years of enlisted service. Anyone claiming such awards/status, should be willing to provide proof. You're a SEAL? Could you please provide a DD214 or perhaps a BUDS class number? Interestingly enough, she is not listed on any Purple Heart recipient lists (whcih I know is not all inclusive). But still, can she even verbally provide the names of her fellow aircrew that were shot down with her? I'm guessing she'll simply bow out of CAP and lay blame on everyone else.
Assuming that these allegations are true, which I believe them to be, a BOLO needs to go out (officially or unofficially) to units in surrounding wings so she doesn't pick up where she left off. Looks like she's the VAWG DAE and I'm familiar with where she's located. She could easily cross over to WVWG, DCWG, or PAWG. Hopefully she'll be 2B'd and banned from renewing or rejoining down the road.
Been more than a few shown the door. After such a distinguished and dynamic career, not one photo of her standing next to a TH55 in flight school? Not one standing next to a UH60? Heck... Ill settle for a photo of her having her PH pinned on.
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 06, 2012, 05:57:45 PM
Been more than a few shown the door. After such a distinguished and dynamic career, not one photo of her standing next to a TH55 in flight school? Not one standing next to a UH60? Heck... Ill settle for a photo of her having her PH pinned on.
Can't have what doesn't exist, Rob. :(
Quote from: NIN on November 06, 2012, 06:11:46 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 06, 2012, 05:57:45 PM
Been more than a few shown the door. After such a distinguished and dynamic career, not one photo of her standing next to a TH55 in flight school? Not one standing next to a UH60? Heck... Ill settle for a photo of her having her PH pinned on.
Can't have what doesn't exist, Rob. :(
You've obviously never heard of Photoshop...
Quote from: JeffDG on November 06, 2012, 06:16:29 PM
You've obviously never heard of Photoshop...
Thats funny (for a whole bunch of reasons!)
Quote from: NIN on November 06, 2012, 06:18:20 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on November 06, 2012, 06:16:29 PM
You've obviously never heard of Photoshop...
Thats funny (for a whole bunch of reasons!)
I like multi-layer humour! >:D
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 06, 2012, 05:57:45 PM
Been more than a few shown the door.
Yes, and there will be more. So far, 4 from CAP Talk alone have been busted.
In my 25 year affiliation with CAP, I have personally been involved with calling out at least 7 or 8, and that's in CAP. Outside of CAP, a few more, to include 2 that were being paid by the military/government for their apparent "special skill set". From a neighbor to an Air Force (civilian) CATM instructor, I've had more than a few just fall into my lap with their BS. Truth is, they rarely expect anyone to have the balls to call them out.
It's interesting to see how quickly the BS flag gets thrown by those of us who have BTDT for any length of time. Can't vouch for the other services, but a long-time Army guy can sort out the BS in a hurry. I happened to have served in joint assignments with the AF enough times to sort of have a working knowledge of their ops.
Guess that this gal has a hand full of problems.
Quote from: bosshawk on November 07, 2012, 05:52:40 AMGuess that this gal has a hand full of problems.
That's the understatement of the week Paul.
Quote from: PHall on November 07, 2012, 05:58:59 AM
Quote from: bosshawk on November 07, 2012, 05:52:40 AMGuess that this gal has a hand full of problems.
That's the understatement of the week Paul.
Jeez, I got problems and I have never once considered trying to be something that I'm not. I yam wat I yam and that's all wat I yam.
Quote from: Stonewall on November 07, 2012, 03:30:26 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 06, 2012, 05:57:45 PM
Been more than a few shown the door.
Yes, and there will be more. So far, 4 from CAP Talk alone have been busted.
In my 25 year affiliation with CAP, I have personally been involved with calling out at least 7 or 8, and that's in CAP. Outside of CAP, a few more, to include 2 that were being paid by the military/government for their apparent "special skill set". From a neighbor to an Air Force (civilian) CATM instructor, I've had more than a few just fall into my lap with their BS. Truth is, they rarely expect anyone to have the balls to call them out.
It is good to know we have a few people who will call them out. So many places everyone wants to be politically correct.
No way! Someone claimed to be a SEAL and they lied? That NEVER happens...
I'll be watching THIS tomorrow night. (http://www.actionnewsjax.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=3827730)
Quote from: Stonewall on November 11, 2012, 11:02:46 PM
No way! Someone claimed to be a SEAL and they lied? That NEVER happens...
I'll be watching THIS tomorrow night. (http://www.actionnewsjax.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=3827730)
Erm, that leads to a high school girls volleyball game coverage... :)
Quote from: Nathan on November 13, 2012, 12:22:51 AM
Erm, that leads to a high school girls volleyball game coverage... :)
High school girls volleyball vs Navy SEALs? I know who I'm betting on.
Quote from: NIN on November 13, 2012, 02:09:10 AM
Quote from: Nathan on November 13, 2012, 12:22:51 AM
Erm, that leads to a high school girls volleyball game coverage... :)
High school girls volleyball vs Navy SEALs? I know who I'm betting on.
Depends on the beauty of the HS girls >:D
Quote from: AngelWings on November 13, 2012, 02:23:49 AM
Quote from: NIN on November 13, 2012, 02:09:10 AM
Quote from: Nathan on November 13, 2012, 12:22:51 AM
Erm, that leads to a high school girls volleyball game coverage... :)
High school girls volleyball vs Navy SEALs? I know who I'm betting on.
Depends on the beauty of the HS girls >:D
I was about to go all ballistic and remembered you're a cadet and that's allowed...for you.
+1
I was going to say. OK for some, not for most on here though
My bad. Here's the link. (http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/Action-News-Investigates-Stolen-Valor/UN7apN3l30KYoMv9wIOByA.cspx) Interesting, yet not a surprising story.
Ha! He joined the Navy Reserves in 1978, went to Great Lakes and was discharged 19 days later.
A lot of the bogus claims I come across are so similar. Many are people who did actually enlist into the military, but failed to complete initial training or their first enlistment.
That seems to be the norm, they go in with high expectations and plans of going far, but they end up not being able to adapt, or hurt themselves in the beginning. I feel sorry for some of them. Some seem to be decent guys, except for the lies.
Quote from: Garibaldi on November 13, 2012, 06:15:43 AM
Quote from: AngelWings on November 13, 2012, 02:23:49 AM
Quote from: NIN on November 13, 2012, 02:09:10 AM
Quote from: Nathan on November 13, 2012, 12:22:51 AM
Erm, that leads to a high school girls volleyball game coverage... :)
High school girls volleyball vs Navy SEALs? I know who I'm betting on.
Depends on the beauty of the HS girls >:D
I was about to go all ballistic and remembered you're a cadet and that's allowed...for you.
I didn't think that one through...
what really galls me is that he only fessed-up and apologized to stop people calling him about it.
So what's the status on this lady? I saw that she is "away from her duties as DAE", but has anything else happened?
Am I opening a can of worms? I'm just curious. I checked out her FB and there hasn't been any activity in a few days, and I noticed A LOT of CAP "friends" that probably gave her a crap ton of respect, most likely for alleged military history.
Quote from: Stonewall on November 17, 2012, 12:36:23 AM
So what's the status on this lady? I saw that she is "away from her duties as DAE", but has anything else happened?
Am I opening a can of worms? I'm just curious. I checked out her FB and there hasn't been any activity in a few days, and I noticed A LOT of CAP "friends" that probably gave her a crap ton of respect, most likely for alleged military history.
As far as I know she's still on the Job.
She's not. There's an acting DAE...and he's already sending out stuff and working actively.
Was this "lady" 2b-d?
Quote from: ProdigalJim on November 17, 2012, 06:48:50 PM
She's not. There's an acting DAE...and he's already sending out stuff and working actively.
The email message I saw was that she was just on leave for about two months. Not that she was out permanently...has something else been announced?
As an actual Army Aviation officer, one thing that is telling is that she didn't lie "enough." I'm betting she only lied about rank and job title, probably actually earned the other ribbons, and they didn't make the DD 214.
The purple heart may/may not be the truth, but all her ribbons only support her being a one-termer enlisted Soldier. She's sporting the Army Good Conduct Medal- only given to enlisted members. There's no clasp on it, so she would have served between 3 and 6 years. Not that many get picked up for OCS that early.
Also, the fact that her highest award (PH excepted) is an Achievement medal indicates she was probably never a Captain. The Army gives out Army Commendation medals to officers like candy every time we PCS or leave active duty. She should have at least one from leaving the service. If the AAM is the highest she got for leaving, that is very typical for junior enlisted (also supported by the lone GCM). She should also have an Air Medal if her Iraq tour involved any flying- remember the Air Medal can and often is awarded for 6 months of combat flight duty, not necessarily a specific act of valor. Most of the rest are service medals we all get. Heck, I got 4 for one trip to Afghanistan- NATO, Overseas, Afghanistan Campaign, and an Air Medal, then an ARCOM when I PCS'd after returning stateside.
I bet she's a junior enlisted who just lied about her rank (to get CAP rank maybe?), job title, and probably the PH, but didn't bother to recreate the proper ribbon rack to back up her story.
Re: It's not enough...
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2012, 12:19:27 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is sad. There are few things we veterans can walk away with outside of memories, friends, or physical ailments. And, decorations are physical appreciations we get for our service. To see others walk into a surplus store or click a mouse online to "purchase" a fake history angers many. I know for one, what I have is what I earned and that cannot be devalued by fraudsters, but I do believe there should be a much stiffer penalty imposed on them.
To the above, I had posted this to another thread a while back, but I still feel the same. The highest I earned was the USAF Achievement Medal, which was twice. Other than that, all the rest were common amongst the ranks (i.e. GC, Marksman, OU, etc.). If you're gonna fake it, why jump to the PH or CMH? Jeez.
Believe it or Not, ive been called a Phony :( BTW havnt heard from you guys in awhile how ya been NIN?
Sorry forgot you too Stonewal!!
Quote from: Devil Doc on December 21, 2012, 01:22:30 AM
Believe it or Not, ive been called a Phony :( BTW havnt heard from you guys in awhile how ya been NIN?
Hehe, keeping it real up here. :)
Good here, too.
According to some recent comments posted on the website that busted her, this lady is now trying to join the Florida wing... Just FYI
Well, if one got 2B'ed properly, wouldn't that clash at NHQ?
Quote from: a2capt on February 22, 2013, 05:42:29 AM
Well, if one got 2B'ed properly, wouldn't that clash at NHQ?
Evidently they let her resign in leu of a 2b. However.....I also understand that NHQ is watching for her application.
There are some people that, no matter what proof you place in front of them, will refuse to believe someone did something wrong. In this case, our former member from VAWG, likely has friends in FLWG who believe "oh, it was just a misunderstanding because they lost her certificate to OCS."
The fact is, FOIA requests and the information contained in them are GOSPEL. If you say you have a purple heart, but the documentation provided says otherwise, well then, you better figure something out.
After seeing the website for this person and learning she's claiming that she got shot down or crashed in Iraq as a Blackhawk pilot, I asked my close CLOSE friend about it; showing him the site via the link. By close friend, I mean, we grew up together since playing soccer at age 7, then were in CAP together. He's at Ft. Rucker and is responsible for investigating downed helicopter incidents in Iraq. There was one significant crash of a female pilot in Iraq, Tammy Duckworth (http://www.tammyduckworth.com/about/), but other than that, none with the name given in the "This Ain't Hell" website..
For someone that flaunted their experiences and qualifications so much, she never once posted a single picture of her graduating flight school, in a flight suit, in an officer's uniform, getting promoted, graduating from OCS...NOTHING. She talked about it ALL THE TIME, but provided NOTHING to confirm it...NOTHING.
If she resigned to avoid a 2B, as not a few have, depending on her mode of resignation (an actual letter of resignation v. just letting membership expire), how would National be able to flag her? I had thought that action was (mostly) for people who've copped the boot from CAP.
Quote from: CyBorg on February 22, 2013, 03:34:01 PM
If she resigned to avoid a 2B, as not a few have, depending on her mode of resignation (an actual letter of resignation v. just letting membership expire), how would National be able to flag her? I had thought that action was (mostly) for people who've copped the boot from CAP.
The basis for denying her application would be that membership in CAP is a privilege and not a right. As long as the denial is not based on her being in a protected class (and being an alleged "Stolen Valor" perpetrator is not protected), NHQ doesn't have to approve her membership.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer (and don't even play one on TV); therefore, my legal interpretation is worth exactly what you paid for it.
I believe Stonewall hit the nail on the head a few posts ago: Is it possible to get an award/medal and not have it on your DD214, sure. An AAM or maybe even an ARCOM. You'd have the paperwork for it and should have it IPERM'd.
Is it possible to have your DD214 say you're still a PFC Air Traffic Controller with only two years of service when are supposedly a CPT Blackhawk Pilot with a purple heart? Absolutely not. You get so much paperwork when you commission (orders for promotion to 2LT, 1LT and CPT, nice little certificate from the President, all the certs from OCS, flight school, etc)
I think it says something if she's allowed to come back in.
^^^^ Agree ^^^^
Quote from: JK657 on February 22, 2013, 05:25:20 PM
I think it says something if she's allowed to come back in.
Look, I was a lowly E-4 helicopter mechanic
(admittedly, with two primary MOSs, a secondary, and a metric crap ton of OJT in 2 others) and I have a file folder an inch and a half thick with orders, certificates, pay records, flight physicals, documents about Warrant Officer Flight Training, etc. I have a copy of
every single piece of paper I ever got from the Army. If the Army gave me something (pay, orders, medals, a black eye) it is in there.
Does it happen that people get pinned awards that never makes it into their record jacket? Yep. But I almost guarantee that sort of thing happens WAY less in the modern military (with email conversation chains, electronic request processes, document management, etc, even all the way out to Bob on the FOB or Joe at the combat OP) than it did when I was in during the 1980s.
I went to a course while I was in Korea on Cheju Island. I have the manual from the course, and a crap ton of photos and video from the experience. I am not sure I got a certificate. But it wasn't like a formal school or something. I can prove I was there with anecdotal info.
The young lady seems to be pretty active on the FB CAP Discussion Group page, submitting a number of posting 'likes' and text responses four days ago. I would have thought that one of the regulars over there would have called her out on her CAP status. Heck, it appears she even has active CAP members as 'friends' on her FB page.
Hopefully her name and SSN have been flagged appropriately on e-Services.
Quote from: Bobble on February 22, 2013, 06:19:53 PM
The young lady seems to be pretty active on the FB CAP Discussion Group page, submitting a number of posting 'likes' and text responses four days ago. I would have thought that one of the regulars over there would have called her out on her CAP status. Heck, it appears she even has active CAP members as 'friends' on her FB page.
Hopefully her name and SSN have been flagged appropriately on e-Services.
As one of her "friends" on FB, I was pretty dismayed when this blew up. At the same time that I do not condone what she did; that doesn't mean I need to un-friend her, or that she is evil scum (YMMV). I'm just as sinful as she is, so I extend her more grace than others. I'm not sure how I feel about her coming back in. If she is truly repentant about what she did; I have no objection.
BTW, you don't have to be a CAP Member to be on that FB page, or at least you didn't have to be.
Sure, I understand that being a CAP member in good standing is not a requirement for participating in that FB discussion page, but to actually appoint her as an administrator? YGB*KM.
Redacted promoted Michelle A. Tesla to admin.
February 9 at 7:40pm
Michelle A. Tesla Thanks, Redacted. Did you fix the other part? :)
February 9 at 7:40pmSorry, I'm just not as forgiving as you regarding her past behavior. Her actions were not the result of chance or happenstance, they were deliberately conceived and implemented to deceive CAP and its members.
Quote from: RogueLeader on February 22, 2013, 06:26:54 PM
... that doesn't mean I need to un-friend her, or that she is evil scum (YMMV).
Yes, apparently my mileage is varying from yours. By a significant amount.
Seriously, that basically to me tells me that the whole FB group is a farse.
I'd have a hard time swallowing anything from someone who's done similar stunts, been called out on it, and still offers up their opinion, version of a story, or whatever, to any conversation.
Sorry, but that's the way it is. Sure, we're not all perfect. I get that. Her actions were deliberate. What's to think that was all, what else is being hidden?
YGTB*KM is right.
Quote from: Bobble on February 22, 2013, 06:49:36 PM
Sorry, I'm just not as forgiving as you regarding her past behavior. Her actions were not the result of chance or happenstance, they were deliberately conceived and implemented to deceive CAP and its members.
I don't know who I hold in more contempt:
People who steal valor who were never in the military at all or People who were in the Military and embellish their service.
Her claim absolutely disgusts me. The purple heart is an award for those who have shed blood and even died for our country. Towards the end of my deployment last year my unit lost a soldier. Do you know what his NOK was given? A purple heart and an ARCOM. That piece of metal means something and she doesn't just claim it like some drunk vet at the local VFW, no she wore it on her uniform. As far as claiming to be a Captain, I think about all the hard work I did to get a commission, it was a long, hard road. She wasn't 1LT promotable or a 2LT who got lost during land nav and got discharged... no, she was a PFC.
I hope Congress is able to pass the next version of the Stolen Valor act so that people who do this can be held accountable. Sorry just had to vent!
You know what grinds my Gears!! Stolen Valor!!
Quote from: RogueLeader on February 22, 2013, 06:26:54 PM
As one of her "friends" on FB, I was pretty dismayed when this blew up. At the same time that I do not condone what she did; that doesn't mean I need to un-friend her, or that she is evil scum (YMMV). I'm just as sinful as she is, so I extend her more grace than others. I'm not sure how I feel about her coming back in. If she is truly repentant about what she did; I have no objection.
BTW, you don't have to be a CAP Member to be on that FB page, or at least you didn't have to be.
What's really bugging me about this is her actions after being publicized:
1) 'This Ain't He11' (TAH) posting that publicized her deliberate misrepresentation of her service history is dated 11/05/12, giving her full name as 'Chelle Lynn Anderson-Tesla', has a picture of her in her CAP uniform showing a nameplate engraved 'Anderson-Tesla', and included FOIA documents received from the DoD that show her legal given name as 'Chelle Lynn Anderson', the same name (not the name on her CAP uniform name plate) that shows on the screen capture (dated 11/13/12) of her personal FB page.
2) Cut & Paste from the FB CAP Discussion Group page today -
Michelle A. Tesla
Added by Redacted about 3 months agoThree months ago. December 2012? Late November 2012?
It sure looks to me like she wiped out her FB account soon after the junk hit the fan and then quickly opened another FB account under her current name, created by switching 'Chelle' for 'Michelle', eliminating her given middle name of 'Lynn', using her maiden surname (Anderson) as a middle initial and dropping the hyphenated surname, so that a web search of her current name wouldn't show the TAH posting.
Still trust her? I wouldn't. She's a genuine football bat as far as I'm concerned.
Quote from: CyBorg on February 22, 2013, 03:34:01 PM
If she resigned to avoid a 2B, as not a few have, depending on her mode of resignation (an actual letter of resignation v. just letting membership expire), how would National be able to flag her? I had thought that action was (mostly) for people who've copped the boot from CAP.
Years ago we had a member whose membership expired because they sent in a bad check. Two months later, NHQ called me and asked if I wanted them to except his 'good' check. I knew he was a senior citizen with the outset of alzheimer's disease so I asked them to unflag his name.
So yes you can call Ms Parker after the person's membership expires and tell her not to accept it. Prior to expiration you will have to jump thru all the hoops. Also we 2B somebody once and 90 days later they attempted to reapply. i.e. instead of John Doe Smith, he attempted as J. Doe Smith.
There is a checkbox on CAPF2b for voluntary resignation.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on February 24, 2013, 04:01:31 AM
There is a checkbox on CAPF2b for voluntary resignation.
I think we are talking about those people who do not want to leave, i.e. problem people. When you 2B somebody for insubordination they do not want to go peacefully.
One woman's fight in Front Royal, Va. to replace a tattered American flag (http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/252683/188/One-womans-fight-in-Front-Royal-Va-to-replace-a-tattered-American-flag-)
Looks like she's become famous. Good for her.
Quote from: Stonewall on April 12, 2013, 11:09:03 AM
One woman's fight in Front Royal, Va. to replace a tattered American flag (http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/252683/188/One-womans-fight-in-Front-Royal-Va-to-replace-a-tattered-American-flag-)
Looks like she's become famous. Good for her.
Famous in the article. Infamous in the comments below it.
Oh. Gawd.
This woman is like a bad lunch that keeps coming up...
And evidently her little "experience" in VAWG hasn't changed her mindset one bit. When will this end????
This is Horrible, now she will be forever known as having a Purple Heart because it is on the news. I think her lying about her service is worse than the Tattered Flag, atleast the Tattered flag respresents something real.
Quote from: Devil Doc on April 12, 2013, 12:52:00 PM
This is Horrible, now she will be forever known as having a Purple Heart because it is on the news. I think her lying about her service is worse than the Tattered Flag, atleast the Tattered flag respresents something real.
Well, maybe not. Now that she got herself on TV in the Nation's Capitol, and got instantly flamed in the comments, my guess is someone will do a followup story pointing out her fakery to a much, much larger audience. She may have bit off more than she thought...
Quote from: ProdigalJim on April 12, 2013, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: Devil Doc on April 12, 2013, 12:52:00 PM
This is Horrible, now she will be forever known as having a Purple Heart because it is on the news. I think her lying about her service is worse than the Tattered Flag, atleast the Tattered flag respresents something real.
Well, maybe not. Now that she got herself on TV in the Nation's Capitol, and got instantly flamed in the comments, my guess is someone will do a followup story pointing out her fakery to a much, much larger audience. She may have bit off more than she thought...
Well True, but will they find her? I hope its gets busted wideopen.
Didnt you notice when they did the pan shot of the purple heart certificate, it did not show a name.
But in the end...the flag was still jacked up....
Quote from: Devil Doc on April 12, 2013, 02:01:37 PMDidnt you notice when they did the pan shot of the purple heart certificate, it did not show a name.
Even if it did show a name, it would be super easy to make a bogus certificate. Heck, I could do that!
Quote from: Stonewall on April 12, 2013, 02:10:54 PM
Quote from: Devil Doc on April 12, 2013, 02:01:37 PMDidnt you notice when they did the pan shot of the purple heart certificate, it did not show a name.
Even if it did show a name, it would be super easy to make a bogus certificate. Heck, I could do that!
As sad as it is, you can buy fake military certificates online. Got a few dollars to burn? You can order a Purple Heart certificate, an Honorable Discharge certificate, and even a diploma from Harvard. Doesn't make it legit.
Actually diplomas from Harvard have been quite easy to obtain for some time. >:D
Quote from: Pylon on April 12, 2013, 04:19:23 PM
Quote from: Stonewall on April 12, 2013, 02:10:54 PM
Quote from: Devil Doc on April 12, 2013, 02:01:37 PMDidnt you notice when they did the pan shot of the purple heart certificate, it did not show a name.
Even if it did show a name, it would be super easy to make a bogus certificate. Heck, I could do that!
As sad as it is, you can buy fake military certificates online. Got a few dollars to burn? You can order a Purple Heart certificate, an Honorable Discharge certificate, and even a diploma from Harvard. Doesn't make it legit.
Really? I never got my Honorable Disharge Certificate LOL. I was told I get it when my IRR Runs out, which is Sept 2013.
This is absolute insanity. Really? I mean, didn't this person get outed in November? Now its six months later and we're still dealing with claims of derring-doo that could never actually have happened?
Quote from: NIN on April 12, 2013, 05:14:56 PM
This is absolute insanity. Really? I mean, didn't this person get outed in November? Now its six months later and we're still dealing with claims of derring-doo that could never actually have happened?
Sir, we will as long as people support her. The news outlet was contacted in regards to the validity of her claims by some folks. She seems to have a considerable defense from the folks in VA and that is just from what I read on another site. All in all it stinks and this is as bad as someone running around with LE equipment in their car.
Guess someone figured it out at the station. The link is down now.
Quote from: ol'fido on April 12, 2013, 07:10:57 PM
Guess someone figured it out at the station. The link is down now.
Result of god knows how many emails and or calls sent to the station about it?
The readers of TAH rallied and began flooding the news station with the REAL story on this lady. The news station has already interviewed John, the main man over on TAH and a follow up story is set up for tomorrow to expose her lies.
http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/254213/158/VA-Woman-Caught-Lying-About-Her-Military-Service (http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/254213/158/VA-Woman-Caught-Lying-About-Her-Military-Service)
to borrow a line from Top Gun:
"That'll about cover the flyby."
Quote from: NIN on April 13, 2013, 02:16:34 AM
http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/254213/158/VA-Woman-Caught-Lying-About-Her-Military-Service (http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/254213/158/VA-Woman-Caught-Lying-About-Her-Military-Service)
to borrow a line from Top Gun:
"That'll about cover the flyby."
"What's the name of that truck-driving school, TruckMaster, I think it is? We might need that..."
Important Safety Tip: If you're going to pose, DON'T DO IT ON TV IN A MAJOR MARKET WITH MILLIONS OF VIEWERS! 8)
Quote from: ProdigalJim on April 13, 2013, 02:41:46 AM
Quote from: NIN on April 13, 2013, 02:16:34 AM
http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/254213/158/VA-Woman-Caught-Lying-About-Her-Military-Service (http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/254213/158/VA-Woman-Caught-Lying-About-Her-Military-Service)
to borrow a line from Top Gun:
"That'll about cover the flyby."
"What's the name of that truck-driving school, TruckMaster, I think it is? We might need that..."
Important Safety Tip: If you're going to pose, DON'T DO IT ON TV IN A MAJOR MARKET WITH MILLIONS OF VIEWERS! 8)
"And get caught!".
And that reporter is not a happy camper anymore. Probably got her butt handed to her by the boss for not fact checking her story before it aired.
You know, your basic Journalism 101 stuff.
Quote from: PHall on April 13, 2013, 02:49:10 AM
"And get caught!".
And that reporter is not a happy camper anymore. Probably got her butt handed to her by the boss for not fact checking her story before it aired.
You know, your basic Journalism 101 stuff.
If she *has* a boss, at least a senior journalist-type boss. Cutbacks in the business are so steep that editors, copyeditors, fact-checkers and the like are considered "quaint" by the bean-counters that run newsrooms these days. Believe me, I know... >:(
Quote from: NIN on April 13, 2013, 02:16:34 AM
http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/254213/158/VA-Woman-Caught-Lying-About-Her-Military-Service (http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/254213/158/VA-Woman-Caught-Lying-About-Her-Military-Service)
Success!
Read the comments on TAH, too. I suspect there's going to be a little friction at VAWG HQ .. ;)
Quote from: a2capt on April 13, 2013, 03:19:52 AM
Read the comments on TAH, too. I suspect there's going to be a little friction at VAWG HQ .. ;)
Yup considering if what rhe party claimed is true poses a conflict of interest.
Yeah, honestly, I think that is just sort of "blood in the water" talk. I can't imagine that the Wing CV has anything to do with her after all the crap thats gone on.
I do wonder why the Wing CV got stuck doing the investigation instead of the IG. That is a curious choice of investigating officers.
Quote from: NIN on April 13, 2013, 04:06:03 AM
I do wonder why the Wing CV got stuck doing the investigation instead of the IG. That is a curious choice of investigating officers.
Curious indeed that the Wing CV who knew Chelle Hougan-Tesla-Anderson (see CAP article here (http://www.capva108.org/index.php/news/15-o-flights)) was the one who "investigated" her and cleared her of any issues despite official federal government documents clearly showing the complete opposite story.
I mean, we're not talking about one undocumented medal here. We're talking about a chaptered-out PFC with 2 ribbons after 22 months of service as a vehicle driver versus a supposed Mustang Army O-3/CPT UH-60 pilot with combat deployment to Iraq, shot down, received the PH and other medals and medically retired with PTSD after 10 years of service.
That's like saying to someone: "Oh, yeah... well the Army forgot to document my entire military career, my OCS graduation, my commissioning, my promotions, my flight school, my advanced school, all my unit assignments, my combat deployment, my Purple Heart, my other medals, at least 8 of my 10 years of service, and my medical retirement. And I can't find so much as a single photo of my from my time as an Army officer, pilot, or while deployed. Or so much as a single buddy who was there with me at OCS, Flight School, Iraq, or my flight squadron. Must be an oversight."
And CAP responds with, "Oh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah."
Is it even "legal" for a non IG officer to even conduct an investigation? ???
I've always heard that if the IG at one level had a conflict then the investigation bumped up to the next level.
Finally!! She gets caught on National TV!! How dare someone claim a medal that my brothers have died for, and someone has bled for.
Quote from: Devil Doc on April 13, 2013, 12:08:45 PM
Finally!! She gets caught on National TV!! How dare someone claim a medal that my brothers have died for, and someone has bled for.
I agree bro. In my neck of the woods theres a member whos running around in a crown vic fully decked out. Shes caught bigtime red handed.
I know of a guy who claims to be a MD at a local hospital, but his Facebook page shows him with a Doctorate in health Education and a nutritionist. He also claims to have earned the Earhart Award in 99 or 2000 which somehow doesn't show up in E services. I am still researching, before I act.
I think some more might fall as a result of this woman. I think a can of worms has been opened...
A clue would be if she' still admin/active on the "official" FB pages. There's always reveres. I just can't imagine in this world of instant search and connectivity, why people do this stuff.
I received my Mitchell (45347) in 98 and my Earhart (10946) in 2000. After 10 years away, both awards and my 4 encampments showed up on my CAPID eServices account (which he would have as CAPIDs were issued at that time). Since those awards and the actual certificate comes from National after a 2a being signed all the way up, there is no virtually no way it happened. CAPNews and NHQ also have a list of every receipient as they are numbered. I could see some possible plausibility IF it had been before the 90s; however, I call bravo sierra on this one.
Quote from: MSG Mac on April 14, 2013, 04:03:25 AM
I know of a guy who claims to be a MD at a local hospital, but his Facebook page shows him with a Doctorate in health Education and a nutritionist. He also claims to have earned the Earhart Award in 99 or 2000 which somehow doesn't show up in E services. I am still researching, before I act.
Quote from: Pylon on April 13, 2013, 04:16:59 AM
Curious indeed that the Wing CV who knew Chelle Hougan-Tesla-Anderson (see CAP article here (http://www.capva108.org/index.php/news/15-o-flights)) was the one who "investigated" her and cleared her of any issues despite official federal government documents clearly showing the complete opposite story.
Really? One of the guys in the TAH comments section got a response from the CV which led me to believe the investigation was still ongoing. But if she did get off the hook...well, I imagine VAWG and National are going to get some pretty angry feedback.
Quote from: ProdigalJim on April 13, 2013, 03:04:48 AM
Quote from: PHall on April 13, 2013, 02:49:10 AM
"And get caught!".
And that reporter is not a happy camper anymore. Probably got her butt handed to her by the boss for not fact checking her story before it aired.
You know, your basic Journalism 101 stuff.
If she *has* a boss, at least a senior journalist-type boss. Cutbacks in the business are so steep that editors, copyeditors, fact-checkers and the like are considered "quaint" by the bean-counters that run newsrooms these days. Believe me, I know... >:(
I think you're giving a bit too much credit to the media. Look at how so many of these "fake warrior" stories break: quite often it's from a local news station or newspaper. You get staff - from the reporter up to the bosses - who might not know any better and/or who are more interested in getting the scoop, and unfortunately these things will just happen. Even a seasoned reporter could be easily baited into a BS story about a local "vet" who - I don't know - watched his best friend die in a tiger cage in Vietnam/Cambodia/Iraq/Afghanistan/Mogadishu/Detroit but the government says it's a secret mission and so there's no paperwork (but, really, it happened!) and so that's why that proposed Taco Bell CAN'T BE BUILT, DANG IT.
Really, a lot of these reporters are just like your average Joe: they hear "vet" and it elicits a response. The veteran issue is very evocative in this country, and that's sadly given rise to these kinds of tricksters and frauds. A writer for the local rag can be just as gullible as the audience for whom they write--but unlike you or I, these people have deadlines to meet which are ultimately linked to putting bread on their tables. That's why I'm glad we have sites like TAH and the Schantags' page: one part media watchdog, one part public information, and one part public jury. We'll always need those outlets as much as we'll need the press itself.
Quote from: DerNarr on April 16, 2013, 12:18:58 AM
I think you're giving a bit too much credit to the media. Look at how so many of these "fake warrior" stories break: quite often it's from a local news station or newspaper. You get staff - from the reporter up to the bosses - who might not know any better and/or who are more interested in getting the scoop, and unfortunately these things will just happen. Even a seasoned reporter could be easily baited into a BS story about a local "vet" who - I don't know - watched his best friend die in a tiger cage in Vietnam/Cambodia/Iraq/Afghanistan/Mogadishu/Detroit but the government says it's a secret mission and so there's no paperwork (but, really, it happened!) and so that's why that proposed Taco Bell CAN'T BE BUILT, DANG IT.
Really, a lot of these reporters are just like your average Joe: they hear "vet" and it elicits a response. The veteran issue is very evocative in this country, and that's sadly given rise to these kinds of tricksters and frauds. A writer for the local rag can be just as gullible as the audience for whom they write--but unlike you or I, these people have deadlines to meet which are ultimately linked to putting bread on their tables. That's why I'm glad we have sites like TAH and the Schantags' page: one part media watchdog, one part public information, and one part public jury. We'll always need those outlets as much as we'll need the press itself.
I get your point, but in this particular case, I don't think it applies -
http://www.suraechinn.com/resume/ (http://www.suraechinn.com/resume/)
She ain't some local yokel with in IBM Selectric.
I just noticed on This Ain't Hell that they have a separate page identifying her specifically as a CAP Liar.
Chelle Lynne Anderson-Tesla; Civil Air Patrol liar (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=35078)
So much for CAP not being mentioned.
The part that sucks there is, from the onset that gives an impression that CAP supports that.
She's hosing CAP just as much as the Army.
She's the problem. Not the service.
Sadly(?) our candidate was defeated in the finals.
Obama Signs New Stolen Valor Act
"The law signed Monday at the White House includes such a provision, making it illegal to make the claims with the intent to obtain money, property or other tangible benefits."
Still not as strong as many of us would like it to be, but the term "tangible" could probably be interpreted
to be anything from a free doughnut to a ride on a parade float or a place of honor at a given event.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/06/03/obama-signs-new-stolen-valor-act.html (http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/06/03/obama-signs-new-stolen-valor-act.html)
http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th/house-bill/258 (http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th/house-bill/258)
DD214 - pretty easy to get a replacement copy. I had to do so recently, from AD service in the 70's. If CAP needs a copy, this guy can probably get one, if he's willing. Some things aren't on there, like some badges, and it's another goat rope if you were a Reservist who was activated. Been, there, done that too, after AD. But, with just a bit more effort, that service can be substaniated, too.
A DFC earned on AD? It would be on the 214 unless a gross error was made. And then overlooked by the veteran as well. If I had a DFC, I'd sure note if it was missing on my 214.
One thing, though; a bunch of records were lost in a fire, but I don't recall the years affected. DoD had a lot of people involved in re-building the history for those affected, and even those folks can usually support thier claims.
| Branch | Personnel and Period Affected | Estimated Loss |
| Army | Personnel discharged November 1, 1912 to January 1, 1960 | 80% |
| Air Force | Personnel discharged September 25, 1947 to January 1, 1964
(with names alphabetically after Hubbard, James E.) | 75%
|
http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/fire-1973.html (http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/fire-1973.html)
Alot does not appear on eServices. My Cadet COP, National Commanders Citation for example. Both GRW did showup. My DD-214 shows no awards, including the National Defense Award. It also does not show the award of Air Crew Wings as a radio operator on C-54's even though there was a Squadron approval personnel order. (which I may still have a copy) As a reservist called to AD, at the time all promotions were temporary, I only made it to e-5, but the DD-214 only shows permenant grade, not temporary grade. Makes little differenceto me, since I didn't wear any military insignia/ribbons etc on a CAP uniform
Quote from: BillB on August 24, 2013, 10:46:10 AM
Alot does not appear on eServices. My Cadet COP, National Commanders Citation for example. Both GRW did showup. My DD-214 shows no awards, including the National Defense Award. It also does not show the award of Air Crew Wings as a radio operator on C-54's even though there was a Squadron approval personnel order. (which I may still have a copy) As a reservist called to AD, at the time all promotions were temporary, I only made it to e-5, but the DD-214 only shows permenant grade, not temporary grade. Makes little differenceto me, since I didn't wear any military insignia/ribbons etc on a CAP uniform
Hey, you were shown your DD-214 during your discharge processing and were asked if it was correct
before you initialed the consent boxes at the bottom.
If you knew it was wrong, why didn't you say something... ::)
First an foremost I accept that this account is directly in violation of the TOS as this is a second "toss" account, and can be banned. However I'm not willing to link my normal persona to this. Having said that on with what I have to say.
This isn't the first time something like this has happened, mind you this is no "Which Hunt" just merely stating facts presented online from respectable websites. Up in Central Florida there is a Lt Col Richard Ortega, his rank from my understand was specially presented to him by CAP for various reasons. I've met him personally twice, he has every medal known to man on his chest, and from those meetings he is very genuine, very respectable, and overall great person, could tell you stories for days, and always volunteering his time to something all the time. However it seems the Air Force Times and a couple others question his integrity. That he wears awards that he hasn't earned, that he claims to be places he really wasn't, etc.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20110704/NEWS/107040301/Vet-s-service-record-doesn-t-match-his-medals (http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20110704/NEWS/107040301/Vet-s-service-record-doesn-t-match-his-medals)
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=25689 (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=25689)
Now while I wish this wasn't true, but unfortunately the facts are there. I would like to believe that do to the age of the records in question, and the fact that some awards could have been awarded in the field that the records obtained have incorrect/non-up to date information, I say that since a large majority of what he says is true and that many both civilian and military have great respect for him. I mean why would this man, who has an already exemplary service record need to embellish his service any more?
Quote from: PHall on August 24, 2013, 03:59:29 PM
Quote from: BillB on August 24, 2013, 10:46:10 AM
Alot does not appear on eServices. My Cadet COP, National Commanders Citation for example. Both GRW did showup. My DD-214 shows no awards, including the National Defense Award. It also does not show the award of Air Crew Wings as a radio operator on C-54's even though there was a Squadron approval personnel order. (which I may still have a copy) As a reservist called to AD, at the time all promotions were temporary, I only made it to e-5, but the DD-214 only shows permenant grade, not temporary grade. Makes little differenceto me, since I didn't wear any military insignia/ribbons etc on a CAP uniform
Hey, you were shown your DD-214 during your discharge processing and were asked if it was correct before you initialed the consent boxes at the bottom.
If you knew it was wrong, why didn't you say something... ::)
That appears to be something that has been consistently applied only recently (last 20 years). It was as often ignored as accomplished, during reenlistments, WIWOAD. It didn't get much better before My Sweetie retired, although they were very thorough on her final one, at retirement.
PHall. I wasn't shown the DD214 during out processing. And I don't think I initalled any form. Just handed the paperwork with the DD214 stuck in the middle of the forms and sent to Transportation for money for return trip home. I got the DD214 in the mail 2 months after discharge. But since this was 60 years ago, I don't remember exactly the chain of events. just happy to get out.
Quote from: BillB on August 25, 2013, 12:38:15 PM
PHall. I wasn't shown the DD214 during out processing. And I don't think I initalled any form. Just handed the paperwork with the DD214 stuck in the middle of the forms and sent to Transportation for money for return trip home. I got the DD214 in the mail 2 months after discharge. But since this was 60 years ago, I don't remember exactly the chain of events. just happy to get out.
No, you were shown it because you had to initial one of the boxes about which infomation to release.
But like you said, you're getting OUT and you were in a hurry and you weren't reading
anything.
I voted for her every chance I could. I'm sad to see she didn't take home the prize but final four is nothing to be ashamed of. When this first all broke out I figured it'd be the last we heard of her, but then she pops up again with that BS story about the tattered American flag. I'm sure now that she will continue to show up occasionally with new claims, scams, etc.
I hope there's sarcasm in there, or I'm just totally missing what the gist of "I voted for her every chance I could", because for the life of me, I can't figure out what there was to vote for, or by extension of the word, support.
She's a fake in most every sense except that she was (I hope, and not still is) a member with a unique CAP ID number.
Quote from: a2capt on August 25, 2013, 03:59:52 PM
I hope there's sarcasm in there, or I'm just totally missing what the gist of "I voted for her every chance I could", because for the life of me, I can't figure out what there was to vote for, or by extension of the word, support.
She's a fake in most every sense except that she was (I hope, and not still is) a member with a unique CAP ID number.
TAH had a vote for the worst stolen valour offender. It was run like the NCAA Basketball Tounament. She made it to the "Foulest Four".
So the context was totally lost, I never saw that. I don't read that site in detail. Not trying to hide or bury the fakers, but it is kinda disgusting and depressing that they do seem be believable, to a portion of the population.
Quote from: PHall on August 25, 2013, 03:03:07 PM
Quote from: BillB on August 25, 2013, 12:38:15 PM
PHall. I wasn't shown the DD214 during out processing. And I don't think I initalled any form. Just handed the paperwork with the DD214 stuck in the middle of the forms and sent to Transportation for money for return trip home. I got the DD214 in the mail 2 months after discharge. But since this was 60 years ago, I don't remember exactly the chain of events. just happy to get out.
No, you were shown it because you had to initial one of the boxes about which infomation to release.
But like you said, you're getting OUT and you were in a hurry and you weren't reading anything.
I gotta go with Phil on this. I have four different DD214s, on three different versions of the form, dating back to 1966. All of them have a signature block.
Quote from: SarDragon on August 25, 2013, 07:59:24 PM
Quote from: PHall on August 25, 2013, 03:03:07 PM
Quote from: BillB on August 25, 2013, 12:38:15 PM
PHall. I wasn't shown the DD214 during out processing. And I don't think I initalled any form. Just handed the paperwork with the DD214 stuck in the middle of the forms and sent to Transportation for money for return trip home. I got the DD214 in the mail 2 months after discharge. But since this was 60 years ago, I don't remember exactly the chain of events. just happy to get out.
No, you were shown it because you had to initial one of the boxes about which infomation to release.
But like you said, you're getting OUT and you were in a hurry and you weren't reading anything.
I gotta go with Phil on this. I have four different DD214s, on three different versions of the form, dating back to 1966. All of them have a signature block.
That you gotta sign or they won't release ya! ;)
However, my last DD-214 states, "Service Member Not Available For Signature" on it. This seems to be the practice now when there is a large demobilization.
Quote from: MHC5096 on August 26, 2013, 04:50:27 PM
However, my last DD-214 states, "Service Member Not Available For Signature" on it. This seems to be the practice now when there is a large demobilization.
Is it correct? If it isn't, have fun going through the correction process. :(
Quote from: MHC5096 on August 26, 2013, 04:50:27 PM
However, my last DD-214 states, "Service Member Not Available For Signature" on it. This seems to be the practice now when there is a large demobilization.
That's what my 214 says, it came out of my medical board, six months later I have a bunch of 215s...
Everything was in fact correct. However, I've heard the horror stories about getting corrections from others.
Quote from: PHall on August 25, 2013, 08:36:20 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on August 25, 2013, 07:59:24 PM
Quote from: PHall on August 25, 2013, 03:03:07 PM
Quote from: BillB on August 25, 2013, 12:38:15 PM
PHall. I wasn't shown the DD214 during out processing. And I don't think I initalled any form. Just handed the paperwork with the DD214 stuck in the middle of the forms and sent to Transportation for money for return trip home. I got the DD214 in the mail 2 months after discharge. But since this was 60 years ago, I don't remember exactly the chain of events. just happy to get out.
No, you were shown it because you had to initial one of the boxes about which infomation to release.
But like you said, you're getting OUT and you were in a hurry and you weren't reading anything.
I gotta go with Phil on this. I have four different DD214s, on three different versions of the form, dating back to 1966. All of them have a signature block.
That you gotta sign or they won't release ya! ;)
I had mine sent to me after I got out and in the signature block it read "SOLDIER NOT AVAILABLE FOR SIGNATURE" So...I don't think that you have to sign it. Just sayin' Thanks
Quote from: PHall on August 25, 2013, 05:48:23 PM
Quote from: a2capt on August 25, 2013, 03:59:52 PM
I hope there's sarcasm in there, or I'm just totally missing what the gist of "I voted for her every chance I could", because for the life of me, I can't figure out what there was to vote for, or by extension of the word, support.
She's a fake in most every sense except that she was (I hope, and not still is) a member with a unique CAP ID number.
TAH had a vote for the worst stolen valour offender. It was run like the NCAA Basketball Tounament. She made it to the "Foulest Four".
Now that is funny regardless of where you live 8)