Shoulder Cords on BDU

[JesusFreak]

It's weird how we we went from talking about wearing the CG cord on our BDUs to the French Foreign Legion.

[Pylon]

I ask you a question and you guys give me examples. Not to be mean, but do any of you understand the concept ATDQ(Answer The Darn Question)? Can we wear them is what I was really looking for.

It's weird how we we went from talking about wearing the CG cord on our BDUs to the French Foreign Legion.

As was stated before:

Welcome to CAPTALK!

This is an area in which there is not wide agreement within CAP.  The technical letter of the CAPM 39-1 seems to indicate to most that shoulder cords can be worn on the BDUs.  CAPM 39-1 authorizes shoulder cords to be worn on the CAP uniform under certain circumstances, but never restricts it to one uniform or another.  Thus, a logical interpretation is that shoulder cords can be worn on any valid CAP uniform.

However, many people are of the opinion that shoulder cords serve no purpose or shoulder cords look tacky/wrong on the BDUs.  National HQ staffers also seem to indicate via the Knowledgebase that they meant the regulations to stipulate shoulder cords  would only be for blues.  However, what the National staff or Knowledgebase says in this instance, is not regulatory and cannot change the written rule of CAPM 39-1.

This is a discussion community (see the header image above).  As such, expect discussions to ensue instead of a straightforward, concretely correct, one-off answer to your inquiries here.  Since this is a "gray area" for many, expect this discussion and analysis. 

As for what you should do, I think you already received the best answer:

Why not ask your DCC or your commander

[lordmonar]

WHY    WOULD   YOU   WANT   TO   DO   THAT???!!!!

WHY DO YOU CARE???!!?!

Why is it that everyone hates bling so much?

The cadet wants to know if it ALLOWED!

How often do we see people just doing what the want or think is right?  Here we got someone who at least is asking...and what do we do?  We yell at him and berate him for his fashion sense.

[lordmonar]

Except at some Air Force Bases to designate members of the Honor Guard. 

For a historic precedent: the French Foreign Legion wears 19th Century Style green and red fringed epaulets on the camouflage fatigues on certain occasions:  doesn't mean they look any less ridiculous.

I would urge anyone who leads a uniformed organization, DOD, CAP or otherwise to seriously rethink the "Tactical High School Marching Band" look.

So the six months I wore a shoulder cord from by OD green fatigues at Tech School (2 months black as drill team, 3 months a green rope, 1 month as a yellow rope) I was ridiculous.

Gee thanks...that helps your argument a lot.

If you don't like it....you don't have to wear it....geez what is it about the bling haters?!

[Major Carrales]

WHY    WOULD   YOU   WANT   TO   DO   THAT???!!!!

WHY DO YOU CARE???!!?!

Why is it that everyone hates bling so much?

The cadet wants to know if it ALLOWED!

How often do we see people just doing what the want or think is right?  Here we got someone who at least is asking...and what do we do?  We yell at him and berate him for his fashion sense.

If you have ever seen a SENIOR in High School ARMY JROTC, they have much more "bling" than even the most senior CAP C/COL. 

CASE IN POINT



My point is that I would say that CAP is pretty conservative with its accoutrements compared even to the US ARMY and sometimes USAF.  The "plain blue suit" idea does not mesh with 200 years of military uniform history.

Thus, a certain amount of accoutrements are necessary.

Really, when you look at it, we are very spartan with what is allowed.
 

[lordmonar]

You can say that two times!

But there are a lot of reasons I can think of that cords in BDU's make sense.

Encampments come to mind right quick!

I certainly wound not someone going out to the field on a SAR to wear them.  But around the squadron....there are a lot of good reason to wear them.

[O-Rex]

Except at some Air Force Bases to designate members of the Honor Guard. 

For a historic precedent: the French Foreign Legion wears 19th Century Style green and red fringed epaulets on the camouflage fatigues on certain occasions:  doesn't mean they look any less ridiculous.

I would urge anyone who leads a uniformed organization, DOD, CAP or otherwise to seriously rethink the "Tactical High School Marching Band" look.

So the six months I wore a shoulder cord from by OD green fatigues at Tech School (2 months black as drill team, 3 months a green rope, 1 month as a yellow rope) I was ridiculous.

Gee thanks...that helps your argument a lot.

If you don't like it....you don't have to wear it....geez what is it about the bling haters?!

You are certainly right: I don't wear ALL my blingage, and that's my preference.  But the bananna-republic-general-looking CAP member represents the same organization that I do....

Cords or other things to identify a leadership position at an encampment or other activity?  Sure, it serves a purpose.  Cords on BDU's to identify Honor Guard?  If an Airman is serving as a base honor guard, and doing it diligently, even if they don't wear distinctive acoutrements, you'll know it when you see him or her (!)   

There's absolutely nothing wrong with bling: I'd be lying if I said I never got any satisfaction from earning some doo-dad that I could wear, military or CAP.

But blingage on a uniform is like makeup on your gal: sometimes less is more, and too much looks ridiculous. 

[JesusFreak]

I ask you a question and you guys give me examples. Not to be mean, but do any of you understand the concept ATDQ(Answer The Darn Question)? Can we wear them is what I was really looking for.

It's weird how we we went from talking about wearing the CG cord on our BDUs to the French Foreign Legion.

As was stated before:

Welcome to CAPTALK!

This is an area in which there is not wide agreement within CAP.  The technical letter of the CAPM 39-1 seems to indicate to most that shoulder cords can be worn on the BDUs.  CAPM 39-1 authorizes shoulder cords to be worn on the CAP uniform under certain circumstances, but never restricts it to one uniform or another.  Thus, a logical interpretation is that shoulder cords can be worn on any valid CAP uniform.

However, many people are of the opinion that shoulder cords serve no purpose or shoulder cords look tacky/wrong on the BDUs.  National HQ staffers also seem to indicate via the Knowledgebase that they meant the regulations to stipulate shoulder cords  would only be for blues.  However, what the National staff or Knowledgebase says in this instance, is not regulatory and cannot change the written rule of CAPM 39-1.

This is a discussion community (see the header image above).  As such, expect discussions to ensue instead of a straightforward, concretely correct, one-off answer to your inquiries here.  Since this is a "gray area" for many, expect this discussion and analysis. 

As for what you should do, I think you already received the best answer:

Why not ask your DCC or your commander

WHY    WOULD   YOU   WANT   TO   DO   THAT???!!!!

WHY DO YOU CARE???!!?!

Why is it that everyone hates bling so much?

The cadet wants to know if it ALLOWED!

How often do we see people just doing what the want or think is right?  Here we got someone who at least is asking...and what do we do?  We yell at him and berate him for his fashion sense.

If you have ever seen a SENIOR in High School ARMY JROTC, they have much more "bling" than even the most senior CAP C/COL. 

CASE IN POINT



My point is that I would say that CAP is pretty conservative with its accoutrements compared even to the US ARMY and sometimes USAF.  The "plain blue suit" idea does not mesh with 200 years of military uniform history.

Thus, a certain amount of accoutrements are necessary.

Really, when you look at it, we are very spartan with what is allowed.
 

Thank you for explaining it Pylon. I understand much it easier. And thank you lordmonar. Guys, please don't flame me because this is my first time on a website community, so I don't know how things normally go neither have a seen a community. So you guys who are making me feel like I'm stupid, please stop. I don't like the feeling that people get angry by my questions. If I've annoyed anyone, then I'm sorry. All I ask is that you guys please don't get angry at what I say or ask. Please and thank you.

O-Rex, to me, and some of my other friends, we think that you don't have to try hard to get a medal or something if you're in JROTC. You could trip and they give you 10 medals. What I mean is that I get a little jealous that JROTC gets all these medals and we probably get only half, because I think that some of the CAP members would like to have as many medals. I know I would be amazed.

[afgeo4]

WHY    WOULD   YOU   WANT   TO   DO   THAT???!!!!

All shouting aside, the Air Force has Airmen wearing shoulder cords on their BDUs in BMT.

While you may think it looks ridiculous, it is a convenient way within the regulations to easily identify key staff positions or other duties at large activities or in training environments.  People are so frequently making position identifiers and other doo-dads which don't comply with uniform regs to help identify key people at activities like an encampment... why not instead use something within the rules?  If it works for the AF, it can work for CAP.

Shoulder cords are used by USAF in Tech Schools, not BMT, to identify student leaders.

I think shoulder cords should be worn on any uniform that is used to perform the duties the cord represents. Example: Honor Guard is performing detail in BDUs = Shoulder Cord on BDUs. Color Guard performs flag ceremony in service uniform = Shoulder Cord on blue shirt.  I don't see a problem with any of that.

I don't like cadets (or seniors) wearing bling 24/7 though. I think the guy/lady you should follow is the one who leads by example, not decoration.

[O-Rex]

JesusFreak:

Wasn't my intent to flame you: was more of a rhetorical question, that later hit a nerve or two.  At the end of the day, we can all agree to disagree, and focus on what's really important, namely the care & feeding of you, our cadets.

JROTC-never understood wearing ribbons and full-size medals.  Don't be jealous, just try not to point at them and laugh. . . .

Remember that all the trimmings look nice (up to a certain point)  but someday those things will go in a frame or a shoebox, and what you will really be left with is what you take from the program that you can apply later in life, military or not.

[JayT]

Thank you for explaining it Pylon. I understand much it easier. And thank you lordmonar. Guys, please don't flame me because this is my first time on a website community, so I don't know how things normally go neither have a seen a community. So you guys who are making me feel like I'm stupid, please stop. I don't like the feeling that people get angry by my questions. If I've annoyed anyone, then I'm sorry. All I ask is that you guys please don't get angry at what I say or ask. Please and thank you.

O-Rex, to me, and some of my other friends, we think that you don't have to try hard to get a medal or something if you're in JROTC. You could trip and they give you 10 medals. What I mean is that I get a little jealous that JROTC gets all these medals and we probably get only half, because I think that some of the CAP members would like to have as many medals. I know I would be amazed.

Are you in a JROTC unit?

Mod snipage - MIKE

[JesusFreak]

O-Rex, thanks for explaining it. I just take some things the wrong way. I'm sorry I thought you were flaming me.

JThemann, no. I am not in JROTC. I've just seen JROTC members that wear about 100 medals or their coats.

[Timothy]

J-F,

That is weird. What branch of JROTC are you seeing like this? Maybe Army? Of course it depends school by school, but in AFJROTC I graduated as our unit cadet commander (C/Lt Col) and had just four medals (one national award each year) out of the 6.5 rows of ribbons I had. Not one of my 150+ cadets had more than four medals; most had 3 or less.
<shrug>
It probably depends on where you are. It really depends on how you look at things.... 10 things that were easy to get, or 3 things you really had to work your butt off to get? There was a time when making E-2 was a big deal... not so much any more, except for maybe the USMC. There were millions of E-1's fighting in WWII, and now I dont think that rank sees the light of day outside basic traning.

If you have to work for it, it will mean something to YOU. Those around you will know what it means too. You'll note that if you compare the twopics up top, besides that anaconda shoulder cord she is wearing, the JROTC cadet only has 2 more ribbons than the CAP cadet.

[DC]

JROTC units vary in how many awards they hand out. Some pass them around like candy, while others are more stringent.

And they Army has always had more uniform bling than the Air Force. 

[brasda91]

CAC Echelon         Shoulder Cord color
Regions                          Gold
Wings                             Blue
Groups                            Red
Squadrons                    Green


CAC and Honor Guard are the only times I've seen shoulder cords worn.

[DC]

Color guards wear white shoulder cords, honor guards wear metallic silver, and units can authorize their own cords for wear, and example would be the FLWG Cadet Honor Society: inductees are authorized a royal blue and gold cord.

[arajca]

and units can authorize their own cords for wear,

Bzzt! Wrong answer. WINGS can authorize shoulder cords for a particular purpose. Your example is one of these. If a unit wants a special shoulder cord, the wing commadner has to authorize it. For example, my unit started a Cadet of The Quarter program to recognize the outstanding cadet for each quarter. The cadet earns a shoulder cord to wear during the quarter following their award. We had to get wing approval for this cord, IAW CAPM 39-1.

[DC]

and units can authorize their own cords for wear,

Bzzt! Wrong answer. WINGS can authorize shoulder cords for a particular purpose. Your example is one of these. If a unit wants a special shoulder cord, the wing commadner has to authorize it. For example, my unit started a Cadet of The Quarter program to recognize the outstanding cadet for each quarter. The cadet earns a shoulder cord to wear during the quarter following their award. We had to get wing approval for this cord, IAW CAPM 39-1.

I used the word unit in a broad sense, I wasn't specifically referring to squadrons. And they can still create thier own cords, they just have to get wing approval.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

In case the answer wasn't given to the question...

Shoulder cords are not worn on the BDU, and never have been. There is no practical way to wear them, for one, plus there is no need. The BDU is a utility uniform, not a dress uniform, and it's not a uniform we're really allowed to wear publicly.

Sometimes common sense and practicality need to trump "it's not in the regulation, so we can do it, right?"

[Ned]

In case the answer wasn't given to the question...

Shoulder cords are not worn on the BDU, and never have been.

That may be a bit overbroad.  Factually, shoulder cords are sometimes worn on the BDU.  Heck, I've seen them being worn.  And as others have pointed out, the regulations appear to allow the wing commander to authorize them if she/he feels it is approptiate and necessary.

There is no practical way to wear them,

Yeah, kinda like shoulderboards for cadet officers, but there you go. 

. . . plus there is no need.

You and I might certainly feel that way, but it really only matters if the wing commander thinks there is a need.  And generally, we should support commanders in the exercise of their discretion, even if we might personally disagree.

The BDU is a utility uniform . . . and it's not a uniform we're really allowed to wear publicly.

Somebody better tell all those cadets at Oshkosh to get the heck off the flight line before somebody sees them!

Sometimes common sense and practicality need to trump "it's not in the regulation, so we can do it, right?"

I don't disagree here, except it is the common sense and practicality of our volunteer leaders, not you or me.

Ned Lee
DCP, PCR