Shoulder Cords on BDU

[JesusFreak]

In my squadron, one of my friends told me that you could wear the shoulder cord you receive by being on the Color Guard not only on your Blues and Service Coat but also on your BDUs. Does anyone here know if it's true? I've looked at CAPM 39-1 and it says nothing. If anyone knows, please post. I want to get this rumor figured out ASAP.

P.S. I am on Color Guard, just to let you know.

[DC]

NO! Shoulder Cords, ribbons, badges and any other form of uniform bling besides patches are not authorized on BDUs. If it is not in 39-1 or an ICL don't do it.

[stillamarine]

There is something out there that allows the cord to be worn with BLUES only outside of Honor Guard activities. Have to go to work will look in the morning if no one finds it before then.

[JesusFreak]

NO! Shoulder Cords, ribbons, badges and any other form of uniform bling besides patches are not authorized on BDUs. If it is not in 39-1 or an ICL don't do it.

It's just that my friend told me and I wanted to make sure. Thanks! But he also told me that you can wear just upside down, if you can wear it though. I really thought you could wear it. And sorry for asking such a dumb question. I just wanted to make sure.

[lordmonar]

Why not ask your DCC or your commander.

And the answer is yes you can wear cords on BDU...as 39-1 does not specify which uniform you can wear them on you can assume that you can wear them on all of them.

[MIKE]

I don't recall anything concrete that said cords were restricted to service uniform only... Only thing you can point to is an illustration IIRC.

Also, I am editing the title of this thread to be a bit more in line with the subject.

[MIKE]

Why not ask your DCC or your commander.

      

[SarDragon]

^
|

+1

You beat me to it. 

[PHall]

NO! Shoulder Cords, ribbons, badges and any other form of uniform bling besides patches are not authorized on BDUs. If it is not in 39-1 or an ICL don't do it.

Would you please provide a cite from any regulation that says which uniform shoulder cords can be worn with.

[O-Rex]

WHY    WOULD   YOU   WANT   TO   DO   THAT???!!!!

[Pylon]

WHY    WOULD   YOU   WANT   TO   DO   THAT???!!!!

All shouting aside, the Air Force has Airmen wearing shoulder cords on their BDUs in BMT.

While you may think it looks ridiculous, it is a convenient way within the regulations to easily identify key staff positions or other duties at large activities or in training environments.  People are so frequently making position identifiers and other doo-dads which don't comply with uniform regs to help identify key people at activities like an encampment... why not instead use something within the rules?  If it works for the AF, it can work for CAP.

[O-Rex]

Shoulder cords on airmen at BMT are no different from full color rank brassards (now velcro patches) on Army BDU/ACU for trainee squad leaders, platoon sergeants, etc., used internally identify those in student leadership positions, and now an award per se.

By no means would such blingage be used as a general rule for CAP, USAF, or anywhere else.

[shorning]

Shoulder cords on airmen at BMT are no different from full color rank brassards (now velcro patches) on Army BDU/ACU for trainee squad leaders, platoon sergeants, etc., used internally identify those in student leadership positions, and now an award per se.

By no means would such blingage be used as a general rule for CAP, USAF, or anywhere else.

Except at some Air Force Bases to designate members of the Honor Guard.  I also know of at least one base in the CENTCOM AOR that has their Honor Guard wearing desert colored cords (yes, in a deployed location!).  FWIW, the Air Force also uses them to identify student leaders in tech school.

[JesusFreak]

I ask you a question and you guys give me examples. Not to be mean, but do any of you understand the concept ATDQ(Answer The Darn Question)? Can we wear them is what I was really looking for.

[CASH172]

I ask you a question and you guys give me examples. Not to be mean, but do any of you understand the concept ATDQ(Answer The Darn Question)? Can we wear them is what I was really looking for.

Welcome to CAPTALK!

[kpetersen]

Would you please provide a cite from any regulation that says which uniform shoulder cords can be worn with.

5-5. Shoulder Cords. Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets only to denote special honor positions or
may be authorized by the wing commander for special purpose activities (see Table 1-4). Not more than
one shoulder cord will be worn at one time, and it will be worn on the left shoulder (Figure 5-2).
Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets at all times. Shoulder cords will be worn along the shoulder
seam and fastened from the underneath, inside the shirt.

If cadets want to wear the shoulder cord, it looks like they would need to wear it inside their BDUs, since it says it should be fastened from the underneath, inside the shirt.  At least, I haven't seen any bdu's with epaulet holders sewn on them...

[Maj Ballard]

I consulted the Knowledge Base. In any answer regarding "shoulder cords," the following instruction is included:

Note: Shoulder cords are authorized with the service coat or the AF blue shirt only. The reference to cadets wearing the cords at all times refers to the previous policy that allowed color guards and drill teams to wear the cord only when performing. This clarification will be made in the first change to the manual.

[shorning]

If cadets want to wear the shoulder cord, it looks like they would need to wear it inside their BDUs, since it says it should be fastened from the underneath, inside the shirt. 

Then that would be true for all uniforms.

[JesusFreak]

Would you please provide a cite from any regulation that says which uniform shoulder cords can be worn with.

5-5. Shoulder Cords. Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets only to denote special honor positions or
may be authorized by the wing commander for special purpose activities (see Table 1-4). Not more than
one shoulder cord will be worn at one time, and it will be worn on the left shoulder (Figure 5-2).
Shoulder cords may be worn by cadets at all times. Shoulder cords will be worn along the shoulder
seam and fastened from the underneath, inside the shirt.

If cadets want to wear the shoulder cord, it looks like they would need to wear it inside their BDUs, since it says it should be fastened from the underneath, inside the shirt.  At least, I haven't seen any bdu's with epaulet holders sewn on them...

Inside?? I quite don't understand. I think they should be worn the same way as the Service Coat, get a baby pin and push it in.

[O-Rex]

Except at some Air Force Bases to designate members of the Honor Guard. 

For a historic precedent: the French Foreign Legion wears 19th Century Style green and red fringed epaulets on the camouflage fatigues on certain occasions:  doesn't mean they look any less ridiculous.

I would urge anyone who leads a uniformed organization, DOD, CAP or otherwise to seriously rethink the "Tactical High School Marching Band" look.

[JesusFreak]

It's weird how we we went from talking about wearing the CG cord on our BDUs to the French Foreign Legion.

[Pylon]

I ask you a question and you guys give me examples. Not to be mean, but do any of you understand the concept ATDQ(Answer The Darn Question)? Can we wear them is what I was really looking for.

It's weird how we we went from talking about wearing the CG cord on our BDUs to the French Foreign Legion.

As was stated before:

Welcome to CAPTALK!

This is an area in which there is not wide agreement within CAP.  The technical letter of the CAPM 39-1 seems to indicate to most that shoulder cords can be worn on the BDUs.  CAPM 39-1 authorizes shoulder cords to be worn on the CAP uniform under certain circumstances, but never restricts it to one uniform or another.  Thus, a logical interpretation is that shoulder cords can be worn on any valid CAP uniform.

However, many people are of the opinion that shoulder cords serve no purpose or shoulder cords look tacky/wrong on the BDUs.  National HQ staffers also seem to indicate via the Knowledgebase that they meant the regulations to stipulate shoulder cords  would only be for blues.  However, what the National staff or Knowledgebase says in this instance, is not regulatory and cannot change the written rule of CAPM 39-1.

This is a discussion community (see the header image above).  As such, expect discussions to ensue instead of a straightforward, concretely correct, one-off answer to your inquiries here.  Since this is a "gray area" for many, expect this discussion and analysis. 

As for what you should do, I think you already received the best answer:

Why not ask your DCC or your commander

[lordmonar]

WHY    WOULD   YOU   WANT   TO   DO   THAT???!!!!

WHY DO YOU CARE???!!?!

Why is it that everyone hates bling so much?

The cadet wants to know if it ALLOWED!

How often do we see people just doing what the want or think is right?  Here we got someone who at least is asking...and what do we do?  We yell at him and berate him for his fashion sense.

[lordmonar]

Except at some Air Force Bases to designate members of the Honor Guard. 

For a historic precedent: the French Foreign Legion wears 19th Century Style green and red fringed epaulets on the camouflage fatigues on certain occasions:  doesn't mean they look any less ridiculous.

I would urge anyone who leads a uniformed organization, DOD, CAP or otherwise to seriously rethink the "Tactical High School Marching Band" look.

So the six months I wore a shoulder cord from by OD green fatigues at Tech School (2 months black as drill team, 3 months a green rope, 1 month as a yellow rope) I was ridiculous.

Gee thanks...that helps your argument a lot.

If you don't like it....you don't have to wear it....geez what is it about the bling haters?!

[Major Carrales]

WHY    WOULD   YOU   WANT   TO   DO   THAT???!!!!

WHY DO YOU CARE???!!?!

Why is it that everyone hates bling so much?

The cadet wants to know if it ALLOWED!

How often do we see people just doing what the want or think is right?  Here we got someone who at least is asking...and what do we do?  We yell at him and berate him for his fashion sense.

If you have ever seen a SENIOR in High School ARMY JROTC, they have much more "bling" than even the most senior CAP C/COL. 

CASE IN POINT



My point is that I would say that CAP is pretty conservative with its accoutrements compared even to the US ARMY and sometimes USAF.  The "plain blue suit" idea does not mesh with 200 years of military uniform history.

Thus, a certain amount of accoutrements are necessary.

Really, when you look at it, we are very spartan with what is allowed.
 

[lordmonar]

You can say that two times!

But there are a lot of reasons I can think of that cords in BDU's make sense.

Encampments come to mind right quick!

I certainly wound not someone going out to the field on a SAR to wear them.  But around the squadron....there are a lot of good reason to wear them.

[O-Rex]

Except at some Air Force Bases to designate members of the Honor Guard. 

For a historic precedent: the French Foreign Legion wears 19th Century Style green and red fringed epaulets on the camouflage fatigues on certain occasions:  doesn't mean they look any less ridiculous.

I would urge anyone who leads a uniformed organization, DOD, CAP or otherwise to seriously rethink the "Tactical High School Marching Band" look.

So the six months I wore a shoulder cord from by OD green fatigues at Tech School (2 months black as drill team, 3 months a green rope, 1 month as a yellow rope) I was ridiculous.

Gee thanks...that helps your argument a lot.

If you don't like it....you don't have to wear it....geez what is it about the bling haters?!

You are certainly right: I don't wear ALL my blingage, and that's my preference.  But the bananna-republic-general-looking CAP member represents the same organization that I do....

Cords or other things to identify a leadership position at an encampment or other activity?  Sure, it serves a purpose.  Cords on BDU's to identify Honor Guard?  If an Airman is serving as a base honor guard, and doing it diligently, even if they don't wear distinctive acoutrements, you'll know it when you see him or her (!)   

There's absolutely nothing wrong with bling: I'd be lying if I said I never got any satisfaction from earning some doo-dad that I could wear, military or CAP.

But blingage on a uniform is like makeup on your gal: sometimes less is more, and too much looks ridiculous. 

[JesusFreak]

I ask you a question and you guys give me examples. Not to be mean, but do any of you understand the concept ATDQ(Answer The Darn Question)? Can we wear them is what I was really looking for.

It's weird how we we went from talking about wearing the CG cord on our BDUs to the French Foreign Legion.

As was stated before:

Welcome to CAPTALK!

This is an area in which there is not wide agreement within CAP.  The technical letter of the CAPM 39-1 seems to indicate to most that shoulder cords can be worn on the BDUs.  CAPM 39-1 authorizes shoulder cords to be worn on the CAP uniform under certain circumstances, but never restricts it to one uniform or another.  Thus, a logical interpretation is that shoulder cords can be worn on any valid CAP uniform.

However, many people are of the opinion that shoulder cords serve no purpose or shoulder cords look tacky/wrong on the BDUs.  National HQ staffers also seem to indicate via the Knowledgebase that they meant the regulations to stipulate shoulder cords  would only be for blues.  However, what the National staff or Knowledgebase says in this instance, is not regulatory and cannot change the written rule of CAPM 39-1.

This is a discussion community (see the header image above).  As such, expect discussions to ensue instead of a straightforward, concretely correct, one-off answer to your inquiries here.  Since this is a "gray area" for many, expect this discussion and analysis. 

As for what you should do, I think you already received the best answer:

Why not ask your DCC or your commander

WHY    WOULD   YOU   WANT   TO   DO   THAT???!!!!

WHY DO YOU CARE???!!?!

Why is it that everyone hates bling so much?

The cadet wants to know if it ALLOWED!

How often do we see people just doing what the want or think is right?  Here we got someone who at least is asking...and what do we do?  We yell at him and berate him for his fashion sense.

If you have ever seen a SENIOR in High School ARMY JROTC, they have much more "bling" than even the most senior CAP C/COL. 

CASE IN POINT



My point is that I would say that CAP is pretty conservative with its accoutrements compared even to the US ARMY and sometimes USAF.  The "plain blue suit" idea does not mesh with 200 years of military uniform history.

Thus, a certain amount of accoutrements are necessary.

Really, when you look at it, we are very spartan with what is allowed.
 

Thank you for explaining it Pylon. I understand much it easier. And thank you lordmonar. Guys, please don't flame me because this is my first time on a website community, so I don't know how things normally go neither have a seen a community. So you guys who are making me feel like I'm stupid, please stop. I don't like the feeling that people get angry by my questions. If I've annoyed anyone, then I'm sorry. All I ask is that you guys please don't get angry at what I say or ask. Please and thank you.

O-Rex, to me, and some of my other friends, we think that you don't have to try hard to get a medal or something if you're in JROTC. You could trip and they give you 10 medals. What I mean is that I get a little jealous that JROTC gets all these medals and we probably get only half, because I think that some of the CAP members would like to have as many medals. I know I would be amazed.

[afgeo4]

WHY    WOULD   YOU   WANT   TO   DO   THAT???!!!!

All shouting aside, the Air Force has Airmen wearing shoulder cords on their BDUs in BMT.

While you may think it looks ridiculous, it is a convenient way within the regulations to easily identify key staff positions or other duties at large activities or in training environments.  People are so frequently making position identifiers and other doo-dads which don't comply with uniform regs to help identify key people at activities like an encampment... why not instead use something within the rules?  If it works for the AF, it can work for CAP.

Shoulder cords are used by USAF in Tech Schools, not BMT, to identify student leaders.

I think shoulder cords should be worn on any uniform that is used to perform the duties the cord represents. Example: Honor Guard is performing detail in BDUs = Shoulder Cord on BDUs. Color Guard performs flag ceremony in service uniform = Shoulder Cord on blue shirt.  I don't see a problem with any of that.

I don't like cadets (or seniors) wearing bling 24/7 though. I think the guy/lady you should follow is the one who leads by example, not decoration.

[O-Rex]

JesusFreak:

Wasn't my intent to flame you: was more of a rhetorical question, that later hit a nerve or two.  At the end of the day, we can all agree to disagree, and focus on what's really important, namely the care & feeding of you, our cadets.

JROTC-never understood wearing ribbons and full-size medals.  Don't be jealous, just try not to point at them and laugh. . . .

Remember that all the trimmings look nice (up to a certain point)  but someday those things will go in a frame or a shoebox, and what you will really be left with is what you take from the program that you can apply later in life, military or not.

[JayT]

Thank you for explaining it Pylon. I understand much it easier. And thank you lordmonar. Guys, please don't flame me because this is my first time on a website community, so I don't know how things normally go neither have a seen a community. So you guys who are making me feel like I'm stupid, please stop. I don't like the feeling that people get angry by my questions. If I've annoyed anyone, then I'm sorry. All I ask is that you guys please don't get angry at what I say or ask. Please and thank you.

O-Rex, to me, and some of my other friends, we think that you don't have to try hard to get a medal or something if you're in JROTC. You could trip and they give you 10 medals. What I mean is that I get a little jealous that JROTC gets all these medals and we probably get only half, because I think that some of the CAP members would like to have as many medals. I know I would be amazed.

Are you in a JROTC unit?

Mod snipage - MIKE

[JesusFreak]

O-Rex, thanks for explaining it. I just take some things the wrong way. I'm sorry I thought you were flaming me.

JThemann, no. I am not in JROTC. I've just seen JROTC members that wear about 100 medals or their coats.

[Timothy]

J-F,

That is weird. What branch of JROTC are you seeing like this? Maybe Army? Of course it depends school by school, but in AFJROTC I graduated as our unit cadet commander (C/Lt Col) and had just four medals (one national award each year) out of the 6.5 rows of ribbons I had. Not one of my 150+ cadets had more than four medals; most had 3 or less.
<shrug>
It probably depends on where you are. It really depends on how you look at things.... 10 things that were easy to get, or 3 things you really had to work your butt off to get? There was a time when making E-2 was a big deal... not so much any more, except for maybe the USMC. There were millions of E-1's fighting in WWII, and now I dont think that rank sees the light of day outside basic traning.

If you have to work for it, it will mean something to YOU. Those around you will know what it means too. You'll note that if you compare the twopics up top, besides that anaconda shoulder cord she is wearing, the JROTC cadet only has 2 more ribbons than the CAP cadet.

[DC]

JROTC units vary in how many awards they hand out. Some pass them around like candy, while others are more stringent.

And they Army has always had more uniform bling than the Air Force. 

[brasda91]

CAC Echelon         Shoulder Cord color
Regions                          Gold
Wings                             Blue
Groups                            Red
Squadrons                    Green


CAC and Honor Guard are the only times I've seen shoulder cords worn.

[DC]

Color guards wear white shoulder cords, honor guards wear metallic silver, and units can authorize their own cords for wear, and example would be the FLWG Cadet Honor Society: inductees are authorized a royal blue and gold cord.

[arajca]

and units can authorize their own cords for wear,

Bzzt! Wrong answer. WINGS can authorize shoulder cords for a particular purpose. Your example is one of these. If a unit wants a special shoulder cord, the wing commadner has to authorize it. For example, my unit started a Cadet of The Quarter program to recognize the outstanding cadet for each quarter. The cadet earns a shoulder cord to wear during the quarter following their award. We had to get wing approval for this cord, IAW CAPM 39-1.

[DC]

and units can authorize their own cords for wear,

Bzzt! Wrong answer. WINGS can authorize shoulder cords for a particular purpose. Your example is one of these. If a unit wants a special shoulder cord, the wing commadner has to authorize it. For example, my unit started a Cadet of The Quarter program to recognize the outstanding cadet for each quarter. The cadet earns a shoulder cord to wear during the quarter following their award. We had to get wing approval for this cord, IAW CAPM 39-1.

I used the word unit in a broad sense, I wasn't specifically referring to squadrons. And they can still create thier own cords, they just have to get wing approval.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

In case the answer wasn't given to the question...

Shoulder cords are not worn on the BDU, and never have been. There is no practical way to wear them, for one, plus there is no need. The BDU is a utility uniform, not a dress uniform, and it's not a uniform we're really allowed to wear publicly.

Sometimes common sense and practicality need to trump "it's not in the regulation, so we can do it, right?"

[Ned]

In case the answer wasn't given to the question...

Shoulder cords are not worn on the BDU, and never have been.

That may be a bit overbroad.  Factually, shoulder cords are sometimes worn on the BDU.  Heck, I've seen them being worn.  And as others have pointed out, the regulations appear to allow the wing commander to authorize them if she/he feels it is approptiate and necessary.

There is no practical way to wear them,

Yeah, kinda like shoulderboards for cadet officers, but there you go. 

. . . plus there is no need.

You and I might certainly feel that way, but it really only matters if the wing commander thinks there is a need.  And generally, we should support commanders in the exercise of their discretion, even if we might personally disagree.

The BDU is a utility uniform . . . and it's not a uniform we're really allowed to wear publicly.

Somebody better tell all those cadets at Oshkosh to get the heck off the flight line before somebody sees them!

Sometimes common sense and practicality need to trump "it's not in the regulation, so we can do it, right?"

I don't disagree here, except it is the common sense and practicality of our volunteer leaders, not you or me.

Ned Lee
DCP, PCR

[BuckeyeDEJ]

In case the answer wasn't given to the question...

Shoulder cords are not worn on the BDU, and never have been.

That may be a bit overbroad.  Factually, shoulder cords are sometimes worn on the BDU.  Heck, I've seen them being worn.  And as others have pointed out, the regulations appear to allow the wing commander to authorize them if she/he feels it is approptiate and necessary.

In my 25 years in CAP, across three regions, I've never seen it. The funky "Ranger" tabs, yes, and some other individual-wing emblems, but never a dress-uniform item.

The only people I ever see wearing them on BDUs or other similar uniforms are members of the Vietnam Veterans of America in parades. And they wear ribbons and everything else. (No offense to Vietnam vets, folks.)

There is no practical way to wear them,

Yeah, kinda like shoulderboards for cadet officers, but there you go. 

The cadet officer shoulder boards used to be easier to deal with. Now, they're Velcro. CAP should go to the same attaching system AFROTC uses. (Mine were attached with snaps. They didn't come off that easily.)

Truth be told, as an aside, I wouldn't mind if the cadet officer rank system went to the same system as AFROTC, with blank boards and stripe braid. It'd be one less thing to learn -- the stripe system is used elsewhere in the military, unlike the moonpies and diamonds our cadets wear now. The boards would probably be cheaper, or at least easier to manage.

. . . plus there is no need.

You and I might certainly feel that way, but it really only matters if the wing commander thinks there is a need.  And generally, we should support commanders in the exercise of their discretion, even if we might personally disagree.

I won't disobey an order, though I might occasionally question the wisdom of one.

The BDU is a utility uniform . . . and it's not a uniform we're really allowed to wear publicly.

Somebody better tell all those cadets at Oshkosh to get the heck off the flight line before somebody sees them!

Har, har. Seriously, I know they wear BDU at Oshkosh and at other "work" activities. And that's OK. But it's a uniform we really need to be keen about wearing around non-CAP people. And I hope at least a public affairs officer at Oshkosh and other similar activities is in blues....

Sometimes common sense and practicality need to trump "it's not in the regulation, so we can do it, right?"

I don't disagree here, except it is the common sense and practicality of our volunteer leaders, not you or me.

Yes, but you and I don't have a monopoly on common sense. While it might be nice if it were that way, we'd have more about which we would complain! Maybe we'd even be wearing stars right now.

Before this thread gets locked, let's get back on topic. Shoulder cords are not a BDU item. Maybe the new CAPM 39-1, if and when it's published, should give more exacting language where it may not be... lest someone with eagles on his shoulders say it's OK to wear ribbons on the BDU, too!

[JesusFreak]

J-F,

That is weird. What branch of JROTC are you seeing like this? Maybe Army? Of course it depends school by school, but in AFJROTC I graduated as our unit cadet commander (C/Lt Col) and had just four medals (one national award each year) out of the 6.5 rows of ribbons I had. Not one of my 150+ cadets had more than four medals; most had 3 or less.
<shrug>
It probably depends on where you are. It really depends on how you look at things.... 10 things that were easy to get, or 3 things you really had to work your butt off to get? There was a time when making E-2 was a big deal... not so much any more, except for maybe the USMC. There were millions of E-1's fighting in WWII, and now I dont think that rank sees the light of day outside basic traning.

If you have to work for it, it will mean something to YOU. Those around you will know what it means too. You'll note that if you compare the twopics up top, besides that anaconda shoulder cord she is wearing, the JROTC cadet only has 2 more ribbons than the CAP cadet.

I've seen it at Nellis AFB, AFJROTC members had like 15 medals or so.

[PHall]

In case the answer wasn't given to the question...

Shoulder cords are not worn on the BDU, and never have been. There is no practical way to wear them, for one, plus there is no need. The BDU is a utility uniform, not a dress uniform, and it's not a uniform we're really allowed to wear publicly.

Sometimes common sense and practicality need to trump "it's not in the regulation, so we can do it, right?"

Next time you're on an Air Force AETC Tech School base, look around, you'll see shoulder cords worn on BDU's and now ABU's, everywhere.

The closest base to you would be Keesler AFB, Mississippi. But you can also find them at Lackland AFB, Texas, Sheppard AFB, Texas, Goodfellow AFB, Texas and at the AETC facility at Vandenberg AFB, California.

Ref. AFI36-2903 AETCSUP1, Para 3.1.1

[lordmonar]

In case the answer wasn't given to the question...

Shoulder cords are not worn on the BDU, and never have been. There is no practical way to wear them, for one, plus there is no need. The BDU is a utility uniform, not a dress uniform, and it's not a uniform we're really allowed to wear publicly.

Sometimes common sense and practicality need to trump "it's not in the regulation, so we can do it, right?"

Actually the answer has been given.....and you are 100% wrong....on just about all counts.

Cords most certainly have been worn on BDU's, there is an easy way to attach them (safety pin).  I can think of several reasons to wear them (ID your CAC rep, Cadet of the Month, and ID leaders at encampment, just to name three).  There is NO restrictions on wearing BDU's in public.  The only count you are correct on is that BDUs are a field uniform...so I would not encourage anyone to wear cords in the field....but other than that I see no problem with it.

[c/A1C Johnson]

it does not specify witch unifrom you can or cant wear it on really people just dont do it becuase they just hear someone say no and dont investigate further really the regs dont say so its pretty much personel prefence and also up to your commander

[Pylon]

it does not specify witch unifrom you can or cant wear it on really people just dont do it becuase they just hear someone say no and dont investigate further really the regs dont say so its pretty much personel prefence and also up to your commander

Bingo.   :clap:

If the commander finds its use is warranted, go for it.

[brasda91]

Cords most certainly have been worn on BDU's

Shoulder cords have never been worn on BDU's in CAP anywhere that I've seen.  They have always been reserved for Blues.  It's possible that some units have recently begun doing so, because it wasn't prohibited it in the reg's.  This seems to becoming more relevent with new members joining CAP and not knowing the history or tradition of CAP.  You have those members that look through the uniform manual and look for opportunities to wear an item, when the tradition and history of CAP doesn't allow for it.

And yes as it was stated, just because it's not in the reg's, doesn't mean you are authorized to wear it.  You can't use the arguement that if it doesn't say so, one way or the other, that it's ok to wear it.

It's possible that National figured we have enough common sense to wear the shoulder cords only with Blues and felt there was no need to specify so in the reg's.

[CadetProgramGuy]

After reading this topic, the twitch in my left eye got worse......

[lordmonar]

Cords most certainly have been worn on BDU's

Shoulder cords have never been worn on BDU's in CAP anywhere that I've seen.  They have always been reserved for Blues.  It's possible that some units have recently begun doing so, because it wasn't prohibited it in the reg's.  This seems to becoming more relevent with new members joining CAP and not knowing the history or tradition of CAP.  You have those members that look through the uniform manual and look for opportunities to wear an item, when the tradition and history of CAP doesn't allow for it.

Gee....I usually follow regulations not history and tradition.

And yes as it was stated, just because it's not in the reg's, doesn't mean you are authorized to wear it.  You can't use the arguement that if it doesn't say so, one way or the other, that it's ok to wear it.

I don't understand your argument.  The regulation says you can wear it....and that is all.  It does not say you can wear it on blues, or you can wear it on BDU's or only on blues or only on BDUs.  It says you can wear it.....and that is all.  With out any other other guidance we can assume that it can be worn on all uniform combinations.

Just because in your experince you have never seen it does not make that the "rule" for everyone.

It's possible that National figured we have enough common sense to wear the shoulder cords only with Blues and felt there was no need to specify so in the reg's.

Sorry but you can't use the common sense rule at all....if we could use that rule we would have been allowed to wear Gortex Jackets and Boonie Hats for a long time.

If national had intened for the cords to be only on blues...it should have said "for blues only".

[Eclipse]

Cords most certainly have been worn on BDU's

Shoulder cords have never been worn on BDU's in CAP anywhere that I've seen.

For better or worse they are relatively common as encampment staff designators.

I went through some of the CS "funny uniform posts" to find a pic, but most of the links are dead.

[brasda91]

Cords most certainly have been worn on BDU's

Shoulder cords have never been worn on BDU's in CAP anywhere that I've seen.  They have always been reserved for Blues.  It's possible that some units have recently begun doing so, because it wasn't prohibited it in the reg's.  This seems to becoming more relevent with new members joining CAP and not knowing the history or tradition of CAP.  You have those members that look through the uniform manual and look for opportunities to wear an item, when the tradition and history of CAP doesn't allow for it.

Gee....I usually follow regulations not history and tradition.

And yes as it was stated, just because it's not in the reg's, doesn't mean you are authorized to wear it.  You can't use the argument that if it doesn't say so, one way or the other, that it's ok to wear it.

I don't understand your argument.  The regulation says you can wear it....and that is all.  It does not say you can wear it on blues, or you can wear it on BDU's or only on blues or only on BDUs.  It says you can wear it.....and that is all.  With out any other other guidance we can assume that it can be worn on all uniform combinations.

Just because in your experience you have never seen it does not make that the "rule" for everyone.

It's possible that National figured we have enough common sense to wear the shoulder cords only with Blues and felt there was no need to specify so in the reg's.

Sorry but you can't use the common sense rule at all....if we could use that rule we would have been allowed to wear Gortex Jackets and Boonie Hats for a long time.

If national had intended for the cords to be only on blues...it should have said "for blues only".

A check of the knowledge base returned this statement:  Note: Shoulder cords are authorized with the service coat or the AF blue shirt only.

I'm not saying we should not follow the regs.  Historically, cords have not been worn on BDU's.  But once again, it also states for special purpose activities, not for just routine day to day wear.

If you haven't been wearing a Gortex jacket before now, that's your decision.  It could have been worn for years, as it is classified as an outergarment.

[lordmonar]

First....Knowledge base is not regulatory.

Second...common sense is not that common.

Listen I am following the regulation.  It's that simple...if national wants to change it...then they can issue an ICL and update the reg.  I can't believe this thread has gone on for so long.

[arajca]

First....Knowledge base is not regulatory.

Second...common sense is not that common.

Listen I am following the regulation.  It's that simple...if national wants to change it...then they can issue an ICL and update the reg.  I can't believe this thread has gone on for so long.

It's a UNIFORM discussion. whaddya expect?

[brasda91]

If you haven't been wearing a Gortex jacket before now, that's your decision.  It could have been worn for years, as it is classified as an outergarment.

Nice try - maybe in bright red, but the camo Gore-Tex jacket is clearly a uniform item, and therefore requires the authorization by the USAF for wear.

If for no other reason than >ANYTHING< worn under, over, or on the USAF-Style uniforms is strictly governed and defined.

Do you even understand the term "Outergarment"?  Worn outdoors and removed in an office environment. Use good judgment in choosing appropriate garments for wear based on weather conditions and duties.  Meaning members do not have to wear military issue cold weather jackets.  If they wish to wear a civilian jacket in order to stay warm during the winter, they have the ability to do so.

Obviously this has been brought to Nationals attention, due to this statement being posted in red.  Note: Shoulder cords are authorized with the service coat or the AF blue shirt only. The reference to cadets wearing the cords at all times refers to the previous policy that allowed color guards and drill teams to wear the cord only when performing. This clarification will be made in the first change to the manual.
SUSAN P. PARKER Deputy Director, Membership Services Voice: Toll free 877-227-9142 ext 212 or 334 953-7748 ext 212 Fax: 334 953-4262

Now since some of you continue to think that it's ok to wear the shoulder cords with BDU's, call Susan and ask her yourself.

[ColonelJack]

For whatever it may be worth ...

Back when I was active duty AF (1975), I was being processed for a medical discharge (long story there) and, during my two-week stay in casual flight, I encountered three or four people wearing shoulder cords with the old pickle suits.  They were flight leaders and assistant flight leaders, and since we wore the pickle suits daily they had to be indicated by the cords.

They sewed a fatigue button on their shoulder to attach the cord, and when their tour as FL or AFL was over, the button was removed.

There's precedent for cords on field uniforms.

Jack

[Pylon]

Now since some of you continue to think that it's ok to wear the shoulder cords with BDU's, call Susan and ask her yourself.

Now since some of you continue to think it's ok to use the statements of paid headquarters staff and personal opinions over the letter of the regulation without publishing a new manual or an ICL, read CAPR 5-4 and see for yourself.

[Pylon]

Thread side discussion about outergarments moved to its own thread:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4777.0

[brasda91]

Now since some of you continue to think that it's ok to wear the shoulder cords with BDU's, call Susan and ask her yourself.

Now since some of you continue to think it's ok to use the statements of paid headquarters staff and personal opinions over the letter of the regulation without publishing a new manual or an ICL, read CAPR 5-4 and see for yourself.

That's why she's paid.  Considering she's at National, she probably has inside knowledge of changes coming down the pipe, hence, the statement regarding the changes to be made.  And even until then, it doesn't mean you can wear cords with BDU's.  Had there been the desire for them to be worn that way, a picture showing the proper placement of the cord on the BDU's would have been provided.  As it is now, there is only pictures for wear on the Blues, Fig. 5-2.

[PHall]

Now since some of you continue to think that it's ok to wear the shoulder cords with BDU's, call Susan and ask her yourself.

Now since some of you continue to think it's ok to use the statements of paid headquarters staff and personal opinions over the letter of the regulation without publishing a new manual or an ICL, read CAPR 5-4 and see for yourself.

That's why she's paid.  Considering she's at National, she probably has inside knowledge of changes coming down the pipe, hence, the statement regarding the changes to be made.  And even until then, it doesn't mean you can wear cords with BDU's.  Had there been the desire for them to be worn that way, a picture showing the proper placement of the cord on the BDU's would have been provided.  As it is now, there is only pictures for wear on the Blues, Fig. 5-2.

Until she actually joins the organization and becomes the Commander, her opinions are just the opinions of a clerk who has absolutely no authority at all.

[mikeylikey]

^ Ouch!  I think she speaks for NHQ, and most likely has been a very strong advocate of the membership there for a few years now.  As a person who has met and worked with her, I would go on her opinion over anyone Else's here anyday.

[RickFranz]

For whatever it may be worth ...

Back when I was active duty AF (1975), I was being processed for a medical discharge (long story there) and, during my two-week stay in casual flight, I encountered three or four people wearing shoulder cords with the old pickle suits.  They were flight leaders and assistant flight leaders, and since we wore the pickle suits daily they had to be indicated by the cords.

They sewed a fatigue button on their shoulder to attach the cord, and when their tour as FL or AFL was over, the button was removed.

There's precedent for cords on field uniforms.

Jack

Come to think about it, I wore a green "rope" (cord) in AF Tech School in 1974.  Green for Flight, Red for Squadron and Gold for Group, I think.
That being said, I have never seen a cord worn on any thing other than blues (shirt/coat) in the Civil Air Patrol.

[mikeylikey]

I have never seen cords or accouterments worn on BDU's.  Everyone's reference are to the fatigues in the 70's and early 80's.  Not really relevant!

Lets just pretend it looks ridiculous and not do it?? 

[jimmydeanno]

I have never seen cords or accouterments worn on BDU's.  Everyone's reference are to the fatigues in the 70's and early 80's.  Not really relevant!

Lets just pretend it looks ridiculous and not do it?? 

I do think that it looks ridiculous and would never do it or have anyone else do it.  However, to this day the AF still uses them during tech school to denote who is in charge.

The most recent, first hand, experience I can give is from 2004 though.  Keesler AFB, MS - green, red and gold "ropes" depending on the level.  Worn in BDUs and Blues, so it isn't just from the old fatigues.

[RickFranz]

I have never seen cords or accouterments worn on BDU's.  Everyone's reference are to the fatigues in the 70's and early 80's.  Not really relevant!

Lets just pretend it looks ridiculous and not do it?? 

I am old, I am a "fattie", I am not relevant, but I don't remember saying that wearing a cord or a rope on BDU's was allowed!  I did not even say it was a good idea.  Just a statement of fact, how be it an OLD Fact!

[mikeylikey]

^ Didn't say that you said that either.