What does a C\Basic wear for rank?

[Pylon]

It's an NYWG thing to.

Not in my group, it's not
[/quote]

Not in CNY group either.  Never seen it done, and I imagine anybody seen doing it would be corrected swiftly and shown the proper method of wearing their uniform.

[SDF_Specialist]

Why have the metal cutouts for seniors and cadets without rank? It's obvious that we're CAP. It says so on our nameplates. Especially the sew on for seniors. It's already hell having to sew them on. And the cutouts ruin the collars. I just don't see the point. But I won't argue. I don't have to worry about the CAP cutouts, just the first lieutenant bars (soon to be captain hopefully)

[DC]

Why have the metal cutouts for seniors and cadets without rank? It's obvious that we're CAP. It says so on our nameplates. Especially the sew on for seniors. It's already hell having to sew them on. And the cutouts ruin the collars. I just don't see the point. But I won't argue. I don't have to worry about the CAP cutouts, just the first lieutenant bars (soon to be captain hopefully)

Probably so you can tell the difference between an older C/AB and a younger SM. If you imagine an 18 yo C/AB, and the same person as a SM, what's to tell the difference between them? I know I'd be annoyed walk around and get called Cadet for 6 mos by SMs that think I'm a cadet.

[SDF_Specialist]

Good point. That would be frustrating to some members. Maybe not all, but it would get a little old after a while. I've seen grey epaulets that only have the "CAP" on it, with no rank indicated. Why not have that for seniors instead of the cutouts? Why not have blue epaulets with "CAP" on it for cadets? The way I see it, the epaulets for cadets just might work in two ways. Just about every cadet I've encountered think epaulets are sweet. I've never met a cadet who was content with the chevrons. If we give cadets epaulets that only have the "CAP" embroidered indicating that they are cadet airman basic, they will want to work toward getting that epaulet back, and putting the silver circle (I can't think of its name) on it. I try to think simple because there's no reason to make everything difficult. If things were a bit more simple, we wouldn't be on here complaining every other day. 

[Pylon]

Good point. That would be frustrating to some members. Maybe not all, but it would get a little old after a while. I've seen grey epaulets that only have the "CAP" on it, with no rank indicated. Why not have that for seniors instead of the cutouts? Why not have blue epaulets with "CAP" on it for cadets? The way I see it, the epaulets for cadets just might work in two ways. Just about every cadet I've encountered think epaulets are sweet. I've never met a cadet who was content with the chevrons. If we give cadets epaulets that only have the "CAP" embroidered indicating that they are cadet airman basic, they will want to work toward getting that epaulet back, and putting the silver circle (I can't think of its name) on it. I try to think simple because there's no reason to make everything difficult. If things were a bit more simple, we wouldn't be on here complaining every other day. 

No, doesn't really make sense.

[DC]

Epaulets are the domain of Cadet Officers, and they are darn proud of them. I think the enlisted rank structure is fine, it has served us well for a long time. I also know a lot of C/ABs would get saluted by the unwary Cadet NCO mistaking them for an officer at distance.

That alson wouldn't solve the problem in BDUs. There is already a solution, the embroidered epaulets, pain in the @$$ that they are.

[SDF_Specialist]

Good point. That would be frustrating to some members. Maybe not all, but it would get a little old after a while. I've seen grey epaulets that only have the "CAP" on it, with no rank indicated. Why not have that for seniors instead of the cutouts? Why not have blue epaulets with "CAP" on it for cadets? The way I see it, the epaulets for cadets just might work in two ways. Just about every cadet I've encountered think epaulets are sweet. I've never met a cadet who was content with the chevrons. If we give cadets epaulets that only have the "CAP" embroidered indicating that they are cadet airman basic, they will want to work toward getting that epaulet back, and putting the silver circle (I can't think of its name) on it. I try to think simple because there's no reason to make everything difficult. If things were a bit more simple, we wouldn't be on here complaining every other day. 

No, doesn't really make sense.

How do you figure? Not too many would want to do anything without incentive. It's a shame, but it's true.

[Pylon]

How do you figure? Not too many would want to do anything without incentive. It's a shame, but it's true.

Giving a Cadet Airman Basic insignia similar to a cadet officer, and then proposing to take it away from them when they complete their Curry will only encourage cadets to stagnate at C/AB.  It certainly doesn't provide any more incentive to advance through the achievements.  The cadets get the epaulets at C/2d Lt as it is, and they know that... giving them an (expensive, comparatively) teaser does nothing.

Plus, cadets already have plenty of legitimate incentives:  achievement ribbons, higher grade and associated insignia, increased responsibility and openings to additional opportunities (encampment, then encampment staff, scholarships, COS, IACE, etc.).  If that, coupled with proper encouragement from the staff, isn't enough then you're not doing something right or they're not cut out for our program.

Cutouts for C/AB's make sense.  The only other reasonable alternative would be just the shield that is currently on the chevrons, without any stripes.   Cadets from C/AB to C/CMSgt wear pin-on collar insignia.  A set of pin-on insignia is also cheaper and easier to keep a bunch of sets of hand for new incoming cadets.  It also gets them used to pinning on and positioning their insignia for future grades.

Epaulets on cadets airman basic would also further confuse cadets trying to spot cadet officers from a distance (for saluting purposes).  It would destroy the consistent look of cadet airmen/NCOs and cadet officers and break that uniformity.  Add that to the established pattern that within the cadet program the epaulets are a mark of distinction and achievement for cadet officers, and I think that makes a pretty strong case why it makes no sense whatsoever.

[SarDragon]

Epaulets are the domain of Cadet Officers, and they are darn proud of them. I think the enlisted rank structure is fine, it has served us well for a long time. I also know a lot of C/ABs would get saluted by the unwary Cadet NCO mistaking them for an officer at distance.

That alson wouldn't solve the problem in BDUs. There is already a solution, the embroidered epaulets, pain in the @$$ that they are.

They're not epaulets, they're shoulder boards. Properly, an epaulet is the part sewn to the shirt/blouse/jacket/coat/garment that the shoulder board (for cadets) or the shoulder mark (for SMs) attaches to.

[SJFedor]

Epaulets are the domain of Cadet Officers, and they are darn proud of them. I think the enlisted rank structure is fine, it has served us well for a long time. I also know a lot of C/ABs would get saluted by the unwary Cadet NCO mistaking them for an officer at distance.

That alson wouldn't solve the problem in BDUs. There is already a solution, the embroidered epaulets, pain in the @$$ that they are.

They're not epaulets, they're shoulder boards. Properly, an epaulet is the part sewn to the shirt/blouse/jacket/coat/garment that the shoulder board (for cadets) or the shoulder mark (for SMs) attaches to.

I think they're talking about the soft blue shoulder marks that cadets wear on the L/S and S/S combos, not the hard boards for the jacket.

[chiles]

Good point. That would be frustrating to some members. Maybe not all, but it would get a little old after a while. I've seen grey epaulets that only have the "CAP" on it, with no rank indicated. Why not have that for seniors instead of the cutouts? Why not have blue epaulets with "CAP" on it for cadets? The way I see it, the epaulets for cadets just might work in two ways. Just about every cadet I've encountered think epaulets are sweet. I've never met a cadet who was content with the chevrons. If we give cadets epaulets that only have the "CAP" embroidered indicating that they are cadet airman basic, they will want to work toward getting that epaulet back, and putting the silver circle (I can't think of its name) on it. I try to think simple because there's no reason to make everything difficult. If things were a bit more simple, we wouldn't be on here complaining every other day. 

I've never met a cadet not content with the chevrons. Actually, I've run into a bunch who stagnated at Chief (or just plain old Master Sergeant WIWAC) because they didn't want to lose the chevrons. As a former cadet officer, I don't really see the point in putting an enhanced burden on cadets to purchase those epaulet sleeves and then take them away for over a year. Particularly considering the rapidity with which we expect people to promote out of the basic level. Most parents will see it as little more than another thing their cadet is going to lose and they'll have to purchase again.

As a former cadet officer, I'd find it rather insulting to the cadet officers who have earned the right to wear it. Especially when you look at the time, effort and persistence required to earn ones Mitchell (and certainly the added effort to continue to promote). CAP cutouts aren't all that big a price and they are certainly helpful. As someone above said, they help train the basic cadet in how to properly wear rank insignia. I remember when I received my first set. They had to be polished (dating myself). I took pride in them as much as I took pride in earning my first stripe, and every stripe afterward.

[SJFedor]

Good point. That would be frustrating to some members. Maybe not all, but it would get a little old after a while. I've seen grey epaulets that only have the "CAP" on it, with no rank indicated. Why not have that for seniors instead of the cutouts? Why not have blue epaulets with "CAP" on it for cadets? The way I see it, the epaulets for cadets just might work in two ways. Just about every cadet I've encountered think epaulets are sweet. I've never met a cadet who was content with the chevrons. If we give cadets epaulets that only have the "CAP" embroidered indicating that they are cadet airman basic, they will want to work toward getting that epaulet back, and putting the silver circle (I can't think of its name) on it. I try to think simple because there's no reason to make everything difficult. If things were a bit more simple, we wouldn't be on here complaining every other day. 

As a former cadet officer, I'd find it rather insulting to the cadet officers who have earned the right to wear it. Especially when you look at the time, effort and persistence required to earn ones Mitchell (and certainly the added effort to continue to promote). CAP cutouts aren't all that big a price and they are certainly helpful. As someone above said, they help train the basic cadet in how to properly wear rank insignia. I remember when I received my first set. They had to be polished (dating myself). I took pride in them as much as I took pride in earning my first stripe, and every stripe afterward.

Plus, you DO use the cutouts again when you promote to C/Officer and need them for your service dress jacket 

[mikeylikey]

^ This Fedor guy is really smart.

[SDF_Specialist]

Gotta give him that. Points taken, understood, processed and filed. I will stand down and enjoy my epaulets. 

[SarDragon]

Gotta give him that. Points taken, understood, processed and filed. I will stand down and enjoy my epaulets. 

Or your epaulet sleeves? I was mistaken in using shoulder mark. That is apparently only an AF term.

[Eclipse]

They're not epaulets, they're shoulder boards. Properly, an epaulet is the part sewn to the shirt/blouse/jacket/coat/garment that the shoulder board (for cadets) or the shoulder mark (for SMs) attaches to.

I believe epaulet "sleeve" is the proper term for the cloth varient that cadets and officers seniors wear.

[SDF_Specialist]

Whatever it is, I'll wear it.