CAP Cadets & Seniors Directing Parking Traffic & Providing Security??

[RADIOMAN015]

  I noted awhile back via google news that a CAP unit in the Detroit area provided "security" and traffic control/parking for a non proift Auto type show fund raiser...  Being new to CAP, it seems like CAP's participation in this type of activity is a real "stretch" to CAP's mission.  Now I can see performing this type of activity at an airshow/military base open house BUT even than I don't like the idea of parking/directing vehicles BUT surely just watching the aircraft on the flight line & some VIP duies would be OK.  Surely anything that supports military veterans would be ok also BUT I've got to wonder if a car show venue could have been handled by another organzation such as REACT?  Are we taking on missions just for the sake of doing things?

K       

[SarDragon]

Well, it's good PR. As long as there are responsible adults to handle the bozos, it's a good deal for all concerned. WIWAC, we did crowd control at the 1964 Democratic Convention on the Boardwalk in Atlantic City, NJ. (In dress uniforms!)

[BillB]

Chances are the Squadron did the parking as a fund raiser, the Car Show paying CAP to do the parking. An activity like that is not uncommon as a Florida Squadron has been doing that for many years at a local non CAP activity. They get $300 to $500 for the weekend.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Fundraiser it probably was.  I did them too when I was with a squadron.

Its simply a fact of life as a CAP guy.

I always get irritated when I see that left-wing bumper-sticker that reads:  "It will be a great day when schools have all the money they need, and the Air Force has to have a bake sale to buy a bomber."

Speaking as a member of that part of the Air Force that DOES have to have bake sales, whoever puts that bumper sticker on their car is full of equine fecal material.

[flyguy06]

I noted awhile back via google news that a CAP unit in the Detroit area provided "security" and traffic control/parking for a non proift Auto type show fund raiser...  Being new to CAP, it seems like CAP's participation in this type of activity is a real "stretch" to CAP's mission.  Now I can see performing this type of activity at an airshow/military base open house BUT even than I don't like the idea of parking/directing vehicles BUT surely just watching the aircraft on the flight line & some VIP duies would be OK.  Surely anything that supports military veterans would be ok also BUT I've got to wonder if a car show venue could have been handled by another organzation such as REACT?  Are we taking on missions just for the sake of doing things?

K       

This kind of thinking by new members is exactly why I advocate not prompting ES as much as we do. new members think wwe are strictly a SAR or ES organization and we are so much more than that. I am NOT knocking this person because he honestly doesnt know but we as members need to do a better job at describing what we are all about.

We conduct community service projects in our communtiy to raise money or get the wordout about CAP. In my area, we have done parking for different events. We do color gurads at youth basketball games.  So, we do a myriad of tasks, not just ES

[SARMedTech]

ES is a task. Parking lot attending is a fund-raising gig.

[Pylon]

It's not always a fundraising gig.  My cadets will be handling some parking assistance and crowd control at a local non-profit road race in September.  The unit earns no money - the race takes over 250 volunteers to allow it to run smoothly and raise a good amount of money for the charity cause it supports. 

Our cadets do it because community service is a part of developing the well-rounded, appropriately-minded leaders that we're trying to develop.  Civic service, community involvement, and good citizenship are not things we should be teaching our cadets?

How about performing the community service as part of an awareness of our organization.  When our members are parking cars and directing pedestrians, wearing bright "Civil Air Patrol" tapes on their BDUs and having a few recruiting brochures tucked into their back pocket, they're not doing anything to further Civil Air Patrol?

Just because this type of activity doesn't fit within your narrow vision of what CAP activities are kosher doesn't mean that other CAP units haven't found them to be productive, rewarding, and central to their being a part of the community.

[RiverAux]

I've got no problems with this either as a fundraiser or general community service event PROVIDED that all CAP members involved get a good briefing on what they can and can't do while providing "security". 

[SARMedTech]

It's not always a fundraising gig.  My cadets will be handling some parking assistance and crowd control at a local non-profit road race in September.  The unit earns no money - the race takes over 250 volunteers to allow it to run smoothly and raise a good amount of money for the charity cause it supports. 

Our cadets do it because community service is a part of developing the well-rounded, appropriately-minded leaders that we're trying to develop.  Civic service, community involvement, and good citizenship are not things we should be teaching our cadets?

How about performing the community service as part of an awareness of our organization.  When our members are parking cars and directing pedestrians, wearing bright "Civil Air Patrol" tapes on their BDUs and having a few recruiting brochures tucked into their back pocket, they're not doing anything to further Civil Air Patrol?

Just because this type of activity doesn't fit within your narrow vision of what CAP activities are kosher doesn't mean that other CAP units haven't found them to be productive, rewarding, and central to their being a part of the community.

Crowd control carries with it the connotation of security. You start telling cadets they are doing something security related and its a matter of time before you find them in the parking lot of a road race having a verbal (or worse) stand off with a patron who has had too much beer and sun. They have no business doing that kind of thing. And its not going to be long before one of those drunk patrons wants to know exactly who that cadet thinks he is that the "Civil Air Patrol" has the right to tell said patron where he can and cannot go. Its putting the cadet in a position that is just asking for trouble. And if CAP is going to start doing "crowd control" at all, perhaps we need to go back to the good old fashion billy club (Im kidding). Directing traffic is one thing, but things that are security related are no more a good idea than mine was of posting CAP members in airports to deal with upset fliers. Most CAP members dont have the training for that sort of thing when they come in and we surely dont provide it.

[RiverAux]

However, it does provide a little bit of training for crash site security where the stakes are a bit higher. 

[SARMedTech]

However, it does provide a little bit of training for crash site security where the stakes are a bit higher. 

That it does, but cadets are not likely to get jumped doing crash site security.

[Pylon]

Crowd control carries with it the connotation of security. You start telling cadets they are doing something security related and its a matter of time before you find them in the parking lot of a road race having a verbal (or worse) stand off with a patron who has had too much beer and sun. They have no business doing that kind of thing. And its not going to be long before one of those drunk patrons wants to know exactly who that cadet thinks he is that the "Civil Air Patrol" has the right to tell said patron where he can and cannot go. Its putting the cadet in a position that is just asking for trouble. And if CAP is going to start doing "crowd control" at all, perhaps we need to go back to the good old fashion billy club (Im kidding). Directing traffic is one thing, but things that are security related are no more a good idea than mine was of posting CAP members in airports to deal with upset fliers. Most CAP members dont have the training for that sort of thing when they come in and we surely dont provide it.

Perhaps I was unclear in my post and my choice of words.  The event I was speaking of has plenty of law enforcement, park rangers, EMS, Fire and security personnel to qualify as a public safety convention.  By "crowd control" I meant being a presence in the park to guide runners and volunteers to the appropriate area.

Joe Public to CAP member:  Excuse me, where are/is the restrooms/refreshments/first aid area/registration/results board/starting line/bouncey castle? 
CAP member:  Good morning sir, that's located right over there.  Here's a map.  Let us know if we can be of any assistance.

Jane Public to CAP member:  Excuse me, we were wondering what time we need to be at the starting line for the Half Marathon wheelchair division? 
CAP member:  Good morning ma'am, according to this pamphlet I have here, you should be by the starting line at 9:10am.  The starting line is located right over there.

John Public to CAP member:  Excuse me, where can I park my car?  I'm a volunteer.
CAP member:  You can't park in this lot, but if you drive down to that next entrance, there will be some additional people dressed like me who can direct you to a parking spot.  Have a great day!

Johnny Public to CAP member:  Gee, you guys are cool.  What does Civil Air Patrol do?
CAP member:  Funny you should ask, I happen to have this pamphlet in my back pocket.  [begin recruiting spiel].


Can CAP members be of use in crowd to direct traffic, provide information, and be a valuable resource?  Absolutely.  Does that mean they assume a security/enforcement role by virtue of being there?  Absolutely not.  We don't assume a security/enforcement role by virtue of being at any other activity, why would your members assume that role at a public gathering?

You're right, your members need to be properly briefed to understand the limits of their involvement, but unless you've got some hardcore "wanna-be's" in your unit, I wouldn't see it being even close to an issue.

[RiverAux]

Can CAP members be of use in crowd to direct traffic, provide information, and be a valuable resource?  Absolutely.  Does that mean they assume a security/enforcement role by virtue of being there?  Absolutely not.  We don't assume a security/enforcement role by virtue of being at any other activity, why would your members assume that role at a public gathering?

Because as has been said, sometimes CAP is asked to perform a quasi-security role at such events -- mostly airshows. 

[CASH172]

Well would it be wrong if CAP members were wanding magnetic detectors, checking IDs, and only permitting authorized vehicles through at an airshow?

[RogueLeader]

Well would it be wrong if CAP members were wanding magnetic detectors, checking IDs, and only permitting authorized vehicles through at an airshow?

I think that permitting only authorized vehicles ie: Fire Trucks, Ambulances, etc. is fine.  The checking ID's and mag detectors are a bit out there; they also require more training, and more authority to screen.

[CASH172]

Yeah it kept bugging me that I saw cadets and was asked to do this task by AF personnel.  I wasn't sure if it was entirely in regs. 

[FARRIER]

When i was a cadet, the squadron I belonged to worked with the local Army National Guard unit and local fire department during the Jerry Lewis Labor Day Telethon. All in the name of community service. And we still were active in ES and CP activities.

[gistek]

One unit I was in does parking and "flight Line" (crowd control) at an event at an airport every year. Yes the event organizers make a donation to CAP, but by the time it's divided among the various units, no noe gets much. Most units don't even make enough to cover their gas and travel expenses.

No CAP members are permitted to assist with bag searches. We can and do help keep the lines in order, but we do not look in anyone's bag.

No cadets are posted at the one gate where we have to check ID's and passes for vehicle entry. Also all SM's at that post are volunteers. If someone doesn't want to have the responsibility of checking ID's and passes, they are assigned elsewhere.

Also, no cadets direct traffic on any of the roads around the event.

All CAP members, both cadets and SM's, are briefed regarding the level of crowd control (remind people they may not cross the event fence) and assistance to the Flight Line (they hold the crowd back from the aircraft being moved and fueled withing the event)

Parking team leaders have printed info covering most of the common situations/questions and are told to refer anything they don't know how to answer up the chain.

The event is used to help CAP members use some of the incident command training. There is a high probability that someone of lower rank than you may be placed in charge of you for a duty position. A C/SSgt with two years experience at this event is more likely to be a team leader than a C/2Lt who's there for the first time.

Parking and crowd control can be excellent ways for units to participate in local events, do a little recruiting, and some really good PR.

[alamrcn]

At a local CAF air show, Civil Air Patrol was asked to help out. We put out a call to all the wing's members looking for people to help provide "security" at the air show.

Wing legal made us retract the request, and re-issue another request for "informational guides" at the air show.

Whatever.

[Nick Critelli]

Wing legal made us retract the request, and re-issue another request for "informational guides" at the air show.

Whatever.

Legal view:  It's a HUGE issue and your Wing JA was right in retracting the request.  CAP is not a security agency and we are not trained in security or crowd control in this context. The term "security" has taken on a specialist definition due in large measure to the increasing number of private security agencies, off duty law enforcement and some insurance requirements.

Guidance regarding (but not the actual) parking of vehicles, providing information as well as other forms of guidance require no special training and do not involve the same consideration as "security."

Personal View: I have always questioned the "optics" of CAP officers providing this type of service.  While it is a good free service to the event organizer and give us something "good" to do it does nothing for CAP's image.  (Remember  you can't soar with the eagles if you s##t with the chickens.)  However I can see using cadets for this purpose as a form of community service.

[alamrcn]

I hear ya.

I just think that uncommen sense (formerly common sense) would have led the CAP members receiving the request would have read "security" and expected duties like gate watching, car parking, flight line walking, and ... er humm... crowd obediance training. Not, "get yur gun and mount up - the Sheriff needs us!"

I remember as a cadet having to learn [at least] the first four general orders of the sentry at encampment, and the Lead Lab telling us how to man a post - "Advance to be recognised" and all that along with Officer of the Day and such. Being on CQ and Fire Watch during SAREx's was a pretty cool job!

-Ace

[NIN]

Having done all of the above (well, OK, not bag searches and wanding of people)....

I didn't see the original article about CAP in Detroit, but considering that I grew up in Detroit as a cadet, I can tell you that "car parkings" are a very serious funding venue for CAP units in that area.  My old group in the 1980s had a standing deal with the county park for car parkings during the many festivals run over the summer. Each unit got 2-3 car parkings a summer, at about $250 or $500 a weekend (mind you, this was 1982...), and it was merely "Keep people from coming in the back entrance and screwing things up, keep traffic moving, get them parked in orderly rows, and point them the right way toward the exit at the end.."   I got to see Journey once, from the side of the stage, due to that..

Were we exposed to too many people smoking dope and drinking? Yeah, probably.  And I nearly had a Buick take my shins out once.     But on the whole, these were great command and control exercises, super weekend activities, fundraisers for the units, and good direct hands-on leadership time for the cadet officers and NCOs. 

I'm thinking. My old unit did 1-2 Freedom Hill gigs per summer, one or two which were "joint" activities with other squadrons of the group, we did the Warren City Fair, the St. Anne's Sausage Festival (no comment) and that was about it.  That was _all_ the fundraising we did for the entire year.  One long week, and three weekends.

Later, in 1990s, my unit did the so-called "Art & Apples" fair in Rochester, MI, as another fundraiser. Weekend bivouac at the site, during the day we handled parking details for the vendors and volunteers (attendees parked out in the town) and helped with coordinating things, communications, etc.  At night, we had "roving patrols" of cadets in the park that watched for people vandalizing the vendor tents, etc.   At no time were we tasked to do real "security."  If we saw something, we called it in on our radios and the CP called it into the PD.  The police dept's building sat on one side of this park, so the incidence of run-ins were pretty small.   I think we got $1000 or $1200 for that weekend.  Again, a pretty good fundraiser, and the "security" aspect of the event was no more "security" than the standard "crash scene security" that you're taught for SAR/ES.

When I moved to NH, we did parking (strictly "in the lot pointing people to spaces") detail for the NASCAR races at NHIS.  $7 per person per hour is what the squadron got "paid." They did this for all manner of non-profit outfits like sports boosters, boy scouts, etc.  We took 2 van loads of people once (about 25 in all) and our own radios, everybody in civilian clothes with our own vests, wands, flashlights, etc.  The lot supervisor didn't know what to do that she didn't have to do anything but lean on the trunk of her car and smoke cigarettes.   We ran that set of parking lots like a swiss watch and by noon had parked about 5,000 cars.  0530-1330 on one day and 0430 to about 1400 on race day. You do the math ($7/hr x 8 x 25 for the one, and $7/hr x 10 x 25 for the other day), that's a TON of money.   In later years, the racetrack required everybody to be over 16, and now they demand a signed contract with performance/non-performance clauses (that our previous wing commander wouldn't sign), so we actually do this detail as a subset of the boy scouts (who call us when they have less numbers than they expect... they give us the $7/hr/person, and we help them meet their performance clause) instead of full-up as CAP.

Its a valid way to earn money for your unit.  We just cashed a check for $1,700 for our last trip to the races. And we're doing it again in Sept.

Now, can there be problems? You bet your bippy! 

I was in the parking lot at the Warren City Fair once, about 1991 or 1992, when I heard this gawdawful row from the vendor entrance about 50 yards away. I ran over there to find C/Lt Col Aubrey Pakenas (now Aubrey Heusser) nearly straddling the corner of the front bumper of a mini van, leaning across the hood with her finger pointed in the driver's face shouting "WHEN I TELL YOU TO STOP, IT MEANS STOP, NOT RUN ME OVER!"  Apparently a woman who felt she was entitled to a vendor spot without the appropriate credentials decided that the little girl in that green uniform and the orange vest wasn't really signaling her to stop and that she'd get out of the way with a mini-van bearing down on her.  Well... you gotta know Aubrey.. she wasn't putting up with any of that crap, lemme tell you...   She was bound and determined to be a hood ornament on this woman's car.

So, yeah, you can occasionally have problems.  In 20-some years of doing car parkings, that was probably the worst.  Never saw anybody get hit by a car, never saw anybody get into it physically with a patron.  Now, those NASCAR fans who start drinking at 0500 in the morning....

[RiverAux]

Hmmm, one squadron somewhere in the midwest has been regularly assisting with checking identification, etc. at the entry to an Air Force Base....I forget which one, but it has received publicity and I haven't heard of them being ordered to stop either...