How to get Cadets to promote?

[bh125]

I am the 1st sgt of a very bottom heavy squadron, where i'm the highest ranking cadet as a MSgt (excluding a chief who is technically still a member but is in college right now). I have been trying and trying to promote some of the basics who have been in for months and have not done their tests, or airmans who have just stopped there. One of the basics has been in for almost a year, maybe more, and hasn't promoted even though the CC and I have constantly reminded him to do his test. He is now freaking out because the Squadron Commander loomed the 2b threat over him. He is going into the national guard very soon and I have just given up on him, and some other cadets.

[Storm Chaser]

I am the 1st sgt of a very bottom heavy squadron, where i'm the highest ranking cadet as a MSgt (excluding a chief who is technically still a member but is in college right now). I have been trying and trying to promote some of the basics who have been in for months and have not done their tests, or airmans who have just stopped there. One of the basics has been in for almost a year, maybe more, and hasn't promoted even though the CC and I have constantly reminded him to do his test. He is now freaking out because the Squadron Commander loomed the 2b threat over him. He is going into the national guard very soon and I have just given up on him, and some other cadets.

One of the thing you can do is continue leading by example and getting promoted yourself. Maybe once they see additional opportunities become available to you because of your grade, they may be motivated to promote. In addition, set goals for duty positions that they may attain if promoted. For example, if they promote to C/SSgt, they may be appointed Flight Sergeant or "X" or "Y" NCO. Your unit may also tailor the training and activities being conducted during weekly meetings so they may be more conducive to their promotion. Finally, assign each cadet a wingman that can motivate and help them with their promotion requirements. These are just a few things you can do. Good luck!

[KASSRCrashResearch]

I assume that walking in wearing a pickelhaube, a monocle and carrying a riding crop isn't an option?  Then two words: cattle prod.

[waukwiz]

Maybe consider providing a laptop for them to take their tests at a meeting.

Cadet Cullen Mayes
GLR-WI-048
"Flight Sergeant, why are we standing here in the mud?"

[THRAWN]

This is an issue everywhere, and it doesn't seem like it's going away any time soon. There are a couple of ways to attack this problem. First, get together with your cadet staff and the SMs that have oversight of the CP and hold a meeting with the entire cadet body and their parents. Have a frank discussion of what is expected of the cadets in terms of progress through the program. Make it clear that the 2B is not a threat, but a very real possibility for those that do not progress through the program. Next is follow up with the cadet staff and closer oversight by the CDC.

How much oversight do you have from SMs?

Hope this helps a bit!

[kwe1009]

Start with finding out what the other cadets are looking to get out of CAP.  Find out why each cadet is not interested in getting promoted.  Once you have those questions answered you can start to come up with ideas and plans to motivate them.  There is no "one size fits all" answer to this problem and it is one that happens all over CAP.

One small thing that I did as a DCC was to make a big deal of each promotion.  I set up a single monthly promotion ceremony where we pinned on the new rank and also gave a certificate of promotion.  I would also send a promotion requirements report to the flight commanders so they knew what each of their cadets needed for promotion.  That enabled them to better assist the younger cadets and help them advance.  When I first started this we were seeing maybe 1 or 2 promotions each month out of a group of 30 cadets.  In less than a year we would have at lest 8-10 get promoted each month.

[THRAWN]

Start with finding out what the other cadets are looking to get out of CAP.  Find out why each cadet is not interested in getting promoted. Once you have those questions answered you can start to come up with ideas and plans to motivate them.  There is no "one size fits all" answer to this problem and it is one that happens all over CAP.

One small thing that I did as a DCC was to make a big deal of each promotion.  I set up a single monthly promotion ceremony where we pinned on the new rank and also gave a certificate of promotion.  I would also send a promotion requirements report to the flight commanders so they knew what each of their cadets needed for promotion.  That enabled them to better assist the younger cadets and help them advance.  When I first started this we were seeing maybe 1 or 2 promotions each month out of a group of 30 cadets.  In less than a year we would have at lest 8-10 get promoted each month.

Simple answer to this. Most cadets have no idea that it is required that they progress through the program. Many of them are ignorant of that requirement. If you educate them and their parents about that requirement, they will turn around. Your point about making a big production out of promotions is a good one.

[kwe1009]

Start with finding out what the other cadets are looking to get out of CAP.  Find out why each cadet is not interested in getting promoted. Once you have those questions answered you can start to come up with ideas and plans to motivate them.  There is no "one size fits all" answer to this problem and it is one that happens all over CAP.

One small thing that I did as a DCC was to make a big deal of each promotion.  I set up a single monthly promotion ceremony where we pinned on the new rank and also gave a certificate of promotion.  I would also send a promotion requirements report to the flight commanders so they knew what each of their cadets needed for promotion.  That enabled them to better assist the younger cadets and help them advance.  When I first started this we were seeing maybe 1 or 2 promotions each month out of a group of 30 cadets.  In less than a year we would have at lest 8-10 get promoted each month.

Simple answer to this. Most cadets have no idea that it is required that they progress through the program. Many of them are ignorant of that requirement. If you educate them and their parents about that requirement, they will turn around. Your point about making a big production out of promotions is a good one.

For the cadets who still didn't promote after 5-6 months I would email them directly and CC their parents to ask if they needed assistance with promotion requirements and I would list what they needed.  This worked great as well.  When I first started doing this I was surprised by how many just needed to recite the Cadet Oath to get promoted.

[THRAWN]

Truth! Again, part of the issue is getting the parents into the OODA loop and getting their input and support.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Flight Sergeant, why are we standing here in the mud?

Guess its better than "Running in the mud...?"

[stillamarine]

Flight Sergeant, why are we standing here in the mud?

Guess its better than "Running in the mud...?"

Or pushups in the mud.

[Eclipse]

Most new cadets hit their tests pretty fast, and then some get stuck on PT, which you can't do much about except keep encouraging them.

Cadets allowed to flounder for months or (sadly) even years without progression in many cases are too far gone to "fix", but that doesn't mean you
can't try.

This sort of challenge requires everyone in the squadron to pick up a corner, and you absolutely need the seniors members actively involved.

As mentioned, first and foremost you need to set the example by progressing yourself.

The adults in the squadron need to be modeling behavior to emulate in that they need to
be progressing in PD, promoting, and that needs to be visible as well.

The Commander needs to set a tone, from "day 1" for new members and and "new day" for everyone
else that progression and promotion is an expectation of membership and leadership positions in the
squadron and that languishing with no activity is unacceptable.  Generally by the time termination is discussed, it's too late.

I had cadets with no progression for 18 months, setting the above tone got everyone refocused and motivated,
now there are few issues.

I would suggest having form 50 conferences with all the cadets ASAP, and find out the specifics of why they are not testing
(this is a senior task).

And yes, putting a PC in front of them on meeting nights, and resetting the test until they get through it is sometimes necessary.
No, this is not the "optimum", but sometimes cadets need an extra push, and one stripe or one test is all the bump they need to
take things more serious.  If you allow cadets to stay in the same "I'll test this week, promise loop".  Things will never change.

And again, sadly, some cadets simply aren't interested and they need to be separated from CAP.  This is in everyone's best interest
because the older they get, the more of an issue and bad example they become, and before you know it you have 16 year old SrAs
with 4 years in.

[waukwiz]

Flight Sergeant, why are we standing here in the mud?

Guess its better than "Running in the mud...?"

Not if you consider the sinkage [emoji13]

Cadet Cullen Mayes
GLR-WI-048
"Flight Sergeant, why are we standing here in the mud?"

[Luis R. Ramos]

Flight Sergeant, why are we standing here in the mud?

Guess its better than "Running in the mud...?"

Or pushups in the mud.

Thought about this but did not want to get that far...

[Spam]

"And yes, putting a PC in front of them on meeting nights, and resetting the test until they get through it is sometimes necessary".

Suggestion One:
Do NOT follow this bad advice from Eclipse to sit a cadet in front of a laptop and reset the system for them repeatedly if they fail. The laptop testing on a meeting night part is fine, BUT, after a test fail, each cadet should receive mentoring from the Testing Officer (and/or his cadet staff mentor) to go over the items they've failed, in accordance with the program. They need constructive mentoring to learn the material and learn how to pass the test - NOT cheating the system to bash them through (also, this sends a bad message that the cadet is being pushed through rather than is learning and earning). See the actual requirement at:

CAPR 52-16 1 NOVEMBER 2015
"5-3. Protocols for Online Achievement Tests.
d. Retesting. Cadets who fail an online achievement test must wait at least 7 days before reattempting
the test. Furthermore, the software will lock-out cadets who fail the same test twice, prompting those cadets
to see their local leaders for mentoring, before a senior member restores their testing privileges in eServices".
and
"5-4. Protocols for Paper-Based Exams.
a. Frequency. Commanders will provide cadets an opportunity to test at least once every 30 days.
Cadets who fail tests or exams may not retest on the same date".


Suggestion two:
Providing the opportunity to use the squadron laptop for testing at the unit may be the only chance some cadets may have to test. I know that's hard to believe in todays digital age, but I've had several cadets from less well to do families that don't have a computer in the house, and who are thus very computer illiterate. Doing a bottom up, case by case review with each cadet to plan a road map for them will highlight this - but be sensitive to the social factor (no one wants to be exposed as poor, or be seen as an outsider).



Suggestion three:
Suggest that you sit down with your senior members to plan out an across the board, one-by-one review with each cadet (the "problem" ones but also the progressing ones, for fairness sake). Suggest to your CO that you hold boards (a few each week until you get them all done) in accordance with R52-16, Section 5-2. Cadet Promotions, paragraphs c. Leadership Feedback, and d. Promotion Boards. I'd like to suggest that during these case by case reviews, you pull up the "Stripes to Diamonds" page (showing them where to find it) and reviewing with them their next steps:

https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/stripes_to_diamonds/

• Show them how to use the chart
• Show them how to click on the insignia to bring up the page detailing the requirement

Suggestion four:
Some cadets may be struggling with passing the PT run and events. Best practice here is to assign a run buddy, a cadet staff NCO (preferred/direct leadership) or cadet staff officer (acceptable) or even another enlisted cadet (acceptable) who is a STRONG PT achiever. This is a double benefit: the cadet needing help gets a personal PT mentor who will coach/cajole/push them to go beyond their "wall" to pass, and the cadet NCO learns to lead through servant leadership.


Best of luck, Top Sergeant!

V/r
Spam

[Eclipse]

"And yes, putting a PC in front of them on meeting nights, and resetting the test until they get through it is sometimes necessary".

Suggestion One:
Do NOT follow this bad advice from Eclipse to sit a cadet in front of a laptop and reset the system for them repeatedly if they fail. The laptop testing on a meeting night part is fine, BUT, after a test fail, each cadet should receive mentoring from the Testing Officer (and/or his cadet staff mentor) to go over the items they've failed, in accordance with the program. They need constructive mentoring to learn the material and learn how to pass the test - NOT cheating the system to bash them through (also, this sends a bad message that the cadet is being pushed through rather than is learning and earning). See the actual requirement at:

Are we talking about the average cadet who is progressing at the average "normal" rate, or cadets who have some impediment to passing?
As I recall it was the latter.

And to that end:

"5-5. Cadets With Special Needs. CAP will make reasonable accommodations for cadets who have
special educational needs. Unit commanders may authorize testing accommodations at their discretion.
Examples of accommodations include testing orally, extending time limits, dividing the test into segments
and reducing the choices on a multiple-choice test. Before authorizing an accommodation, the unit
commander will discuss the cadet's needs with the cadet's parents. Most schools use an Individualized
Educational Program (IEP) to support special needs students. If a parent chooses to share the IEP
information with CAP, the unit commander will adhere to all reasonable accommodations set forth in the
IEP. If the commander and the cadet's parents disagree about the need for reasonable accommodations,
wing commanders are authorized to mandate testing accommodations, if warranted."

[Spam]

"And yes, putting a PC in front of them on meeting nights, and resetting the test until they get through it is sometimes necessary".

Suggestion One:
Do NOT follow this bad advice from Eclipse to sit a cadet in front of a laptop and reset the system for them repeatedly if they fail. The laptop testing on a meeting night part is fine, BUT, after a test fail, each cadet should receive mentoring from the Testing Officer (and/or his cadet staff mentor) to go over the items they've failed, in accordance with the program. They need constructive mentoring to learn the material and learn how to pass the test - NOT cheating the system to bash them through (also, this sends a bad message that the cadet is being pushed through rather than is learning and earning). See the actual requirement at:

Are we talking about the average cadet who is progressing at the average "normal" rate, or cadets who have some impediment to passing?
As I recall it was the latter.

And to that end:

"5-5. Cadets With Special Needs. CAP will make reasonable accommodations for cadets who have
special educational needs. Unit commanders may authorize testing accommodations at their discretion.
Examples of accommodations include testing orally, extending time limits, dividing the test into segments
and reducing the choices on a multiple-choice test. Before authorizing an accommodation, the unit
commander will discuss the cadet's needs with the cadet's parents. Most schools use an Individualized
Educational Program (IEP) to support special needs students. If a parent chooses to share the IEP
information with CAP, the unit commander will adhere to all reasonable accommodations set forth in the
IEP. If the commander and the cadet's parents disagree about the need for reasonable accommodations,
wing commanders are authorized to mandate testing accommodations, if warranted."

You tell us - you brought it up as an unqualified statement.

If a case by case review of each cadet identifies a need for an IEP, that's a good thing, and the commander can proceed to document it and proceed.

You didn't even hint at that in your suggestion to just bash them through.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Before anyone here tunes Eclipse's advice out, reread his comments and the previous comments in this thread.

I would suggest having form 50 conferences with all the cadets ASAP, and find out the specifics of why they are not testing (this is a senior task).

To me with this para before the one you quote, he is already taking into consideration all the stuff you stated that needs to be done before retesting!

[waukwiz]

"And yes, putting a PC in front of them on meeting nights, and resetting the test until they get through it is sometimes necessary".

Suggestion One:
Do NOT follow this bad advice from Eclipse to sit a cadet in front of a laptop and reset the system for them repeatedly if they fail. The laptop testing on a meeting night part is fine, BUT, after a test fail, each cadet should receive mentoring from the Testing Officer (and/or his cadet staff mentor) to go over the items they've failed, in accordance with the program. They need constructive mentoring to learn the material and learn how to pass the test - NOT cheating the system to bash them through (also, this sends a bad message that the cadet is being pushed through rather than is learning and earning). See the actual requirement at:

Are we talking about the average cadet who is progressing at the average "normal" rate, or cadets who have some impediment to passing?
As I recall it was the latter.

And to that end:

"5-5. Cadets With Special Needs. CAP will make reasonable accommodations for cadets who have
special educational needs. Unit commanders may authorize testing accommodations at their discretion.
Examples of accommodations include testing orally, extending time limits, dividing the test into segments
and reducing the choices on a multiple-choice test. Before authorizing an accommodation, the unit
commander will discuss the cadet's needs with the cadet's parents. Most schools use an Individualized
Educational Program (IEP) to support special needs students. If a parent chooses to share the IEP
information with CAP, the unit commander will adhere to all reasonable accommodations set forth in the
IEP. If the commander and the cadet's parents disagree about the need for reasonable accommodations,
wing commanders are authorized to mandate testing accommodations, if warranted."

Unless I missed something, OP neither mentioned nor implied anything of his cadets having special needs.

[Eclipse]

You tell us - you brought it up as an unqualified statement.

The term "sometimes" isn't a qualifier?

And yes, putting a PC in front of them on meeting nights, and resetting the test until they get through it is sometimes necessary.

[Eclipse]

Unless I missed something, OP neither mentioned nor implied anything of his cadets having special needs.

A "special need" doesn't automatically equal an IEP, nor is an actual IEP required.

Cadets not testing for months means only one of a few possibilities.

1 -  They don't care about CAP and are just hanging around.

2 - The unit isn't emphasizing progression and promotion properly.

3 - There is some known or unknown issue with the respective cadet that needs to be remediated.

#1 is hard to fix, may not be recoverable, and speaks to whether the cadet should have been accepted as a member.

#2 take whole sale leadership attitude adjustment.

#3 is usually the culprit, you just have to find out what or why.

[LTC Don]

Nothing in the Cadet Oath about progression?

The Cadet Oath
I pledge that I will serve faithfully in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program, and that I will attend meetings regularly, participate actively in unit activities, obey my officers, wear my uniform properly, and advance my education and training rapidly to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state, and nation.

Or does the oath specifically omit progression so it can't be held over their heads? "advance my education and training" is a bit ambiguous.

If the expectation that cadets progress regularly according to the established time-in-grade requirement during the three month orientation visits or the Great Start process, the system is broken.  Badly.  The standard, stated expectation is that ALL cadets are expected to complete the program (Spaatz).  And that expectation should be hammered from day one. Cadets who stutter and stop progressing should be banned from holding any staff positions and put into a general flight as a member.

[KASSRCrashResearch]

Flight Sergeant, why are we standing here in the mud?

Guess its better than "Running in the mud...?"

Or pushups in the mud.

Which, in turn, is better than low crawling an considerable distance in the mud.

[kwe1009]

Cadets who stutter and stop progressing should be banned from holding any staff positions and put into a general flight as a member.

THIS!!!

Do you have a C/CMSgt who had held that rank for 2 or more years and had never even attempted the Mitchell or worse, has completed the Armstrong achievement?  Do you let them hold any staff positions?  If so, you are encouraging them to stay where they are.  You are also showing the rest of the cadets that they don't need to promote.  I made it mandatory that staff members earn at least 1 achievement everyone quarter and anyone who was applying for a staff position had to have earned and achievement in the previous 3 months.  This got a lot of people motivated.

There is a very good cadet in my Wing and he excels at Comm.  Unfortunately that is the only thing he does.  Even more unfortunate is the fact that everyone is allowing this cadet to just stay in the Comm trailer at events.  I have talked to his commander and other Wing event leaders but I get the same response, "that is what he wants to do."  When I ask if anyone, especially his squadron CC had tried to get him to expand beyond this the answer is "no."  We are supposed to challenge cadets to grow outside of their comfort zones.  This cadet has been a C/CMSgt for nearly 3 years and in CAP for 6.  I know that not everyone is a leader and not everyone wants to be a leader but I think it is our responsibility to highly encourage cadets to at least try.  Some of the best cadet leaders that I have been around were originally cadets who just wanted to stay in the back of the flight and go unnoticed.

[GaryVC]

Sounds to me like this cadet may be an asset as a senior member. He should be close to 18 if he isn't already if he has been a member for six years. I can't help wondering if he ever went to encampment. That was a problem for some WIWAC back in the stone age.

[Eclipse]

There is a very good cadet in my Wing and he excels at Comm.

A cadet who has been a Chief for 3 years is not a "good cadet".  He may be well mannered and spoken,
a pleasure to be around, and knowledgeable about topics he is interested in.  That makes him a good kid
but not a good "cadet" per se.

Those situations are abject failures of leadership.

The "Chiefs in Ranks" issue has been a problem for ages, which is why it's so important to get cadets to an encampment
during their first, or at the latest second year as members.

[kwe1009]

Sounds to me like this cadet may be an asset as a senior member. He should be close to 18 if he isn't already if he has been a member for six years. I can't help wondering if he ever went to encampment. That was a problem for some WIWAC back in the stone age.

Multiple encampments.  Has been Comm NCO for the last 2 or 3 encampments.

He applied for staff at an event that I was running and asked to be the Comm NCO.  I told him that we didn't need that position since we weren't even using radios. I tried to encourage him to be a flight sergeant but he said that he only wanted to do Comm.  It is really too bad because this cadet is very good at this one job and shows aptitude to be a good leader.  He hasn't been challenged to work the leadership muscles because he is so good at the one job everyone wants him to do that.

[Eclipse]

Far too often CAP adult staff forget why these events happen, especially encampments, and
choose candidates they are comfortable with and who they know will make for an easy week
instead of giving new guys a chance or pushing those who need a push to do something challenging.

[PHall]

Flight Sergeant, why are we standing here in the mud?

Guess its better than "Running in the mud...?"

Or pushups in the mud.

Thought about this but did not want to get that far...

That's because you forgot . . . . . Flutter Kicks in the mud!

[TheSkyHornet]

We've recently implemented a new SOP, to see how it plays out over a few months, regarding testing. Someone who doesn't complete the required testing via the sign-up process (or take the online tests on their own) within the previous 2 months are signed up for testing by our cadet staff. For written testing, we talk with the cadet first off to the side and ask what their issue may be with testing. For cadets who have an obviously hard time with testing, we have made discretionary changes to the testing process, to include verbal explanations of subject matter and time extensions. But that's very rare. But for cadets who have lagged---"In two weeks, you're taking your (whatever test). Study up." This all ends up part of the review process as they promote.

Face it, some people just don't have the drive to complete online assignments on their own time. It's a major pet peeve of mine, but it's not detrimental to their future. We address it, we correct it (or at least attempt), and we move forward and see how it goes. I see of lot of that at the C/SrA-C/MSgt ranks.

I find a lot of C/Senior-NCOs really start to slow down. There's a rhetoric throughout CAP where I hear cadets often say "so-and-so told me I shouldn't become an officer, so I'm comfortable with where I am." I think that's an excuse by people who can't pass the tests or can't pass PT. Because once I hear someone say "I'm just not going to do the work," they're informed that if they don't do the work they're stripped of their duty positions. Some fall off, some really click.

If you have a program where the majority of the pack aren't promoting, you don't have an interesting training program. If you have a program where the senior cadets aren't promoting, it's because they feel like they're in a position of power without having to earn it (and don't understand what their roles are). We've shifted from being pretty stagnant with promotions to starting to really see it come together and people trying to move up. But we also set those standards for holding staff assignments and make clear our expectations.

Everyone deserves a chance, but once that chance has been dangled in front of you, you either step up and take it or face the consequences. You see a 2-year Chief get passed up by all his friends, he/she is either going to get with the program or drop out. Give positive feedback and credit when due, and teach those who elect to just "do their own thing" that they aren't in charge and they don't control what happen around them; there are consequences.



Anyone here ever see someone who wants to be in a position of authority but doesn't want the responsibility that comes with it? Unheard of, am I right? Unthinkable! *extreme sarcasm*