4 locked threads?

[mikeylikey]

I take a break and I come back to the board reading nonsense from this Hayden guy!  What the heck happened?  After reading through the posts......I can say I think I will take another break from the board and I hope when I return he is not here!

[DNall]

ehh, hang out & watch the entertainment. You don't really have to read his crap if you don't want to.

[Pumbaa]

As the Wicked Witch of the West said.....

I'mmmmmmm.... MMMMMmmmmelting!!!!!

[LtCol White]

"Be gone before someone drops a house on you too!"

[fyrfitrmedic]

 Did anyone write the nine-line for dropping the house on somebody? 

[Chappie]

Unfortunately the tirade threads were locked before I threw in my .002 but most of what I would have posted was already there...but just for the record:

1)  Lt. Col. Hayden stated in his previous post that he violated the Core Values of the Civil Air Patrol in the areas of Integrity and Respect...lying, cheating, no respect for the academic process or for others that had followed the process (just to name a couple);

2)  His outburst to ChaplainDon was over the top and slanderous in my opinion.  IMHO, chaplains are to provide a moral compass....and unfortunately it would appear that Lt. Col. Hayden has no magnetic field (based on his own posted statements);

3)  While he may have developed an outstanding PRW for the FLWG, that is not enough in my books to give him a pass for his wrongful behavior in having admitted to taking and submitting tests for another -- no matter who it was.

4) In regards to his policy test -- of course Chaplains could not pass his testing standard because Chaplains are not policy makers.  Chaplains at all levels of CAP serve their Commanders.  If a Squadron, Group, Wing, Region or National Chaplain wishes to formulate a policy that would affect their area of influence, they would certainly need the approval ("blessing") of their commander. 

[JC004]

I don't find this type of behavior productive.  Reasoned, intelligent debate is one thing, but this mud-slinging is nuts.  Personal attacks get us nowhere. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

"All of the brothers are valiant, and all of the sisters are virtuous."

If you live by that cognition, you will be OK.

[pixelwonk]

I thought it was "All the women are strong, the men are good looking, and all the children are above average" 

[Major Carrales]

I thought it was "All the women are strong, the men are good looking, and all the children are above average" 

And now...a word from the Ketchup Advisory Board

Narrator: All we need to ease our transition back to CAP related THREADS is ketchup. You know that. Ketchup contains natural Civil Air Patroling agents that help you get over Black CAP Van from Maxwell blues. And its festive red color really brightens up almost any propellor in side a white triangle.

Major Carrales: No doubt about that.

Narrator: These are the good years, UDF teams,
Smoke from the signal fire, the shadow of a CAP Cessna 182 on a County Airport.

Ketchup is flowing on a CAP Hot Dog.

Major Carrales: Ketchup. For the good times.

Music: Ketchup...ketchup...

[JC004]

I thought it was "All the women are strong, the men are good looking, and all the children are above average" 

And now...a word from the Ketchup Advisory Board

Narrator: All we need to ease our transition back to CAP related THREADS is ketchup. You know that. Ketchup contains natural Civil Air Patroling agents that help you get over Black CAP Van from Maxwell blues. And its festive red color really brightens up almost any propellor in side a white triangle.

Major Carrales: No doubt about that.

Narrator: These are the good years, UDF teams,
Smoke from the signal fire, the shadow of a CAP Cessna 182 on a County Airport.

Ketchup is flowing on a CAP Hot Dog.

Major Carrales: Ketchup. For the good times.

Music: Ketchup...ketchup...

It's not too late for you to seek professional help.   

[CLB]

Let's see if we can p!ss him off even more.  It seems he can't stand that 99% of us don't really care if he takes a leap.  Honestly, the madder he gets, the funnier it becomes.   


But I'm gonna get a beer and sit by the fire as it gets bigger! MUAHAHAHA!!!!!

[JC004]

Let's see if we can p!ss him off even more.  It seems he can't stand that 99% of us don't really care if he takes a leap.  Honestly, the madder he gets, the funnier it becomes.   


But I'm gonna get a beer and sit by the fire as it gets bigger! MUAHAHAHA!!!!!

Good plan.  <-- mmm, Guinness.

[Stonewall]

I thought it was "All the women are strong, the men are good looking, and all the children are above average" 

And now...a word from the Ketchup Advisory Board

Narrator: All we need to ease our transition back to CAP related THREADS is ketchup. You know that. Ketchup contains natural Civil Air Patroling agents that help you get over Black CAP Van from Maxwell blues. And its festive red color really brightens up almost any propellor in side a white triangle.

Major Carrales: No doubt about that.

Narrator: These are the good years, UDF teams,
Smoke from the signal fire, the shadow of a CAP Cessna 182 on a County Airport.

Ketchup is flowing on a CAP Hot Dog.

Major Carrales: Ketchup. For the good times.

Music: Ketchup...ketchup...

Am I drunk?  What just happened there? 

[lordmonar]

I don't find this type of behavior productive.  Reasoned, intelligent debate is one thing, but this mud-slinging is nuts.  Personal attacks get us nowhere. 

This assumes that the original poster was in fact reasoned and intelligent in the first place.  Lt Col Hayden is no an un-bias poster.  Nor is he being honest in his version of the details.

He is trying to spin the facts (of supposed facts) of this issue to make it seem like he is free of any guilt in this case.

However, no matter how thing finally end, Lt Col Hayden was 2b'ed by his wing commander for un-officer like conduct.  That is the first and foremost fact everyone needs to keep in mind.

Everything else has followed the fact that he (a Lt Col) and a Capt had some sort of altercation over the paperwork of a PD class.  When the dust settled, the FLWG CC 2b'ed Ray Hayden.

The whole "Test-gate" scandal, whistle blower protection, "I knew what sort of heat I was getting into" stuff is just smoke and noise.

He is not entitled to whistle blower protection because he was fired before he blew the whistle.  If he is telling the trueth...then he aided and abetted a cheater and then tried to use this knowledge to avoid getting 2b'ed.  If he is lying...well he is a lier.

He is not some martyr who finally saw the folly of his ways and calmly and coolly decided to take on the National Commander.  No....let's all be very clear about this.  He stepped on his own pee pee, called in the few favors he is owed and got the cold shoulder.  He is trying to play up the martyr aspect so we will forget that basic facts in his case.

Ray Hayden cannot take advice.  If you look back to the very first posts he made on this subject you will see that I among others advised him to remain silent and let the system work for him.

He did not.

As time has gone by, he has gone from quietly up dating us on his involvement in the investigation to subtle hints that we should be informing the rank and file members of this and other situtation...i.e. build discord and distrust of our National Commander...to out right verbal attacks against the National Commander and anyone who even subtly disagrees with him.

He has pulled rank on me....implying that I (a lowly CAP Capt) am not worthy to question his qualifications or integrity.

Well I for one am not going to allow that anymore.  I stopped posting to any Ray Hayden posts because I did not want to turn them into hate fests.

Yes mud slinging is not conducive to open debate, but sometimes the facts are as dirty as mud and in this case we need to keep an eye on the facts as Ray Hayden has stated them.

Ray Hayden is too unprofessional in the opinion of the FLWG/CC to remain a member of CAP.  Ray Hayden asserts that he helped Gen Pineda to cheat on this Air Staff College course.  

True or false....Ray Hayden in my humble opinion as a CAP Capt in not fit to be in our organization.  He is not fit to make any comments about our leadership.

If you need any proof of his unsuitability to be a leader....just see how he reacts to anyone reminding him of his own statements of the facts.

[edited to add:]
Just to forestall any attempt to say I am a coward and trying to hide my identity.  My name is Patrick M. Harris.  I am a Capt in the Nellis Senior Squadron, Nevada Wing.  I can be E-mailed at patrick.harris@nellis.af.mil or lordmonar@yahoo.com.

If you want to talk to me via phone or face to face...PM me or E-mail me and I will give you that information.

If you want to accuse me of something and start an investgation....go right ahead.

[LtCol White]

Can't we just drop the issue now?? The threads were locked to put an end to it all. Come on guys. Use PM's if you wanna keep discussing this. Enough already.

[lordmonar]

Can't we just drop the issue now?? The threads were locked to put an end to it all. Come on guys. Use PM's if you wanna keep discussing this. Enough already.

I'm done here now..I will go to PM from now on.

[MIKE]

I could lock this one too.    The lock buttons been getting a lot of use lately.

[Psicorp]

I could lock this one too.    The lock buttons been getting a lot of use lately.

I dunno, sir...it's rather refreshing to know that members will stand up and say that enough is enough and that certain behaviors won't be tolerated.   While I never want someone to feel unwelcomed, a door only really has two positions: open and closed.   If the only way Hayden can communicate with CAP members who don't agree with his point of view is to act in a manner we would never tolerate of Cadets (and yes, his outburst to ChaplainDon was extremely out of line) and it's cost him credibility with every post.  My last comment on the subject.



Go Gators!!

[Pylon]

I could lock this one too.    The lock buttons been getting a lot of use lately.

It just got another use.


Let's not continue to talk poorly about specific, named CAP members in public.  Refer back to the CAPTalk Membership Code of Conduct.  It's not professional no matter who the subject is.

Nothing to see here, folks.  Move along...