Night Vision.

[Spaceman3750]

A Chinook doesn't have afterburners either, and under goggles (even NVGs, not thermals) the hot exhaust looks pretty crazy.

Night Vision CH-47F Chinooks Sling Load: Task Force Corsair

(ffwd to about the 2 minute mark if you're the impatient sort, as the aircraft flies away)

Is that static electricity in the rotors or light reflection?

[cap235629]

Are any of the high-speed SAR teams that go on-rope to get out of their Hummers using NVGs for ground SAR?

There are useful aerial applications for thermal imaging, but I'm a little skeptical about their use for ground SAR.

In our AO, we have trained with them extensively in heavy brush to look for children or ALZ patients who may have laid down.  A body JUMPS out of the heat signature of hedges, brushpiles and vegetation.

How big an area were you trying to search with these on the ground?

We place the imager in the middle of the search line and advance the line as normal.  We also use them in a hasty 2 man search..... There is no magnification on the unit.

[Hawk200]

A Chinook doesn't have afterburners either, and under goggles (even NVGs, not thermals) the hot exhaust looks pretty crazy.

Night Vision CH-47F Chinooks Sling Load: Task Force Corsair

(ffwd to about the 2 minute mark if you're the impatient sort, as the aircraft flies away)

Is that static electricity in the rotors or light reflection?

Static, mostly caused by dust. That's the typical signature of a rotor in a dusty environment.

[RiverAux]

Are any of the high-speed SAR teams that go on-rope to get out of their Hummers using NVGs for ground SAR?

There are useful aerial applications for thermal imaging, but I'm a little skeptical about their use for ground SAR.

In our AO, we have trained with them extensively in heavy brush to look for children or ALZ patients who may have laid down.  A body JUMPS out of the heat signature of hedges, brushpiles and vegetation.

How big an area were you trying to search with these on the ground?

We place the imager in the middle of the search line and advance the line as normal.  We also use them in a hasty 2 man search..... There is no magnification on the unit.

I meant, are you searching an area the size of a football field?  100 acres?  5000 acres? 

While I would say that handheld IR equipment is probably going to be more useful than NVGs for ground SAR, I can't see either being a major help unless you've got the search area down to an extremely small size that could be effectively searched by 1 piece of equipment. 

[RogueLeader]

The idea (I'm the one that gave the OP- and several others- the assignment) is to be working with the Aircraft with the FLIR system, communicating via radios.

I understand that the NVG's may not be "that" effective as seeing the target, but they are good enough to transit the terrain.  Yes, I have used them for land nav, back in my army days.

[RiverAux]

Airborne IR?  All for it.  Either mounted on the aircraft or handheld I think it has some great uses. 

In so far as using NVGs for terrain navigation on the ground I really don't think they offer any advantage in this particular use.  I think I can move just as well, if not faster, easier and safer, with a flashlight or headlamp than with NVGs.  Factor in that the whole search team probably isn't going to be wearing them and are going to be using flashlights that are constantly going to be pointing right at you, and I wouldn't even consider using NVGs for ground SAR. 

Sure, if you're sneaking around doing Army stuff NVGs are the way to go, but thats the the situation we're discussing. 

[Crosswind]

One use for the NVG, at least in the WYWG, is that our FLIR system is equipped with a laser.  We can fire the laser on the target, and anyone on the ground with NVG will be able to see the beam and the target area

[sarmed1]

Handheld or goggle IR in the aircraft would be ineffective, if I remember correctly (and I may be mistaken) from my fire dept thermal imager training, you cant see thru glass.  So if not exterior mounted, NVG is the only option.

As far as on the ground; yes for individual movement I think a flashlight is easier, for search and scan, anything that turns night into day (enva a pale green shaded day) would be an advantage.  Flashlights are not the no starter they used to be; modern NVG's have a light dampening effect if you have sudden/unexpected bright light issues.

Based on my use of the two (NVG vs IRG) I would prefer the IRG for ground SAR work for the above mentioned reasons:  specifically the heat signatures that being hidden/obscured by ground clutter that NVG's would miss

mk

[RogueLeader]

Again, the FLIR system is in the Aircraft. 

I know from my army days, that seeing through NVGs works well for seeing the terrain.  How does Infra-red goggles compare to NVG's?

[SARDOC]

I can see a use for NVG's in a ground SAR incident primarily because you'll be able to see further than any <200 Lumen light.  So if you were watching a suspected Boundary for someone walking across a clearing or Power line cut.  Although Civil Air Patrol doesn't typically get involved in certain searchs but NVG's might be helpful in situations involving potentially despondent subjects or those others who are avoiding getting found, like some autistic children that think they might get in trouble.  There is an application for them, I'm just not sure it's really worth the expense.