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June 23, 2017, 07:56:36 AM
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 1 
 on: Today at 07:45:18 AM 
Started by deepblue1947 - Last post by THRAWN
and I will have my Level 3 by next year ( All i need it 2 Conferences) so it looks like Level 3 is my max.

Most of the people I know are hung up on Level 3 its because of the conference attendance requirement.  It held me up for literally DECADES and I won't finish level 3 until the conference later this year, though that should only be a few months away now.

In my case Level 4 is only inputting things I have already done.  However I will have already made Major and level 4 won't get me promoted again at that point, so I will also be stuck.

No LTC for me, probably ever, as I will never make it to National for the required school.

Have you used any of your PME to get waivers? Will any of it count as NSC equivalent?

 2 
 on: Today at 05:35:17 AM 
Started by deepblue1947 - Last post by N6RVT
and I will have my Level 3 by next year ( All i need it 2 Conferences) so it looks like Level 3 is my max.

Most of the people I know are hung up on Level 3 its because of the conference attendance requirement.  It held me up for literally DECADES and I won't finish level 3 until the conference later this year, though that should only be a few months away now.

In my case Level 4 is only inputting things I have already done.  However I will have already made Major and level 4 won't get me promoted again at that point, so I will also be stuck.

No LTC for me, probably ever, as I will never make it to National for the required school.

 3 
 on: Today at 01:30:44 AM 
Started by huey - Last post by huey
Just been promoted to major, need all kinds of senior major insignia: grey epaulets, cloth insignia (current and new style)...

Anyone is willing to let them go please inform me.

Thank you

 4 
 on: Yesterday at 11:10:17 PM 
Started by jfkspotting - Last post by Eclipse
How the heck did they squeeze 5.8 out of a glass 182?  Assuming that's right, it had to either be
flown by tiny Elvis or they came in on fumes. Depending on speed, that wold seem to exceed the range
by 20-40%.



That 8.9 has to be a mistake, right? That's about 150% of the range of a 206 according to interwebs.


 5 
 on: Yesterday at 08:58:32 PM 
Started by xray328 - Last post by Eclipse
^ This makes a logical, but non-existent connection where none exists in anything which is
available publicly or quoted here.

The law grants the organization the rights. That's it.  It does not speak to anything in regards to
licensing, nor does it direct member action.  It just says "CAP has the rights".

It's up to CAP to decide from there what the above means at the member level, that's the reg, and you can't ignore
what the reg actually says:

900-2 says this:
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R900_002_8A8354F4FD7C3.pdf

"3. Authorized Uses:
a. In accordance with Federal Statute 36 U.S.C. Section 40306, Civil Air Patrol shall have the sole and exclusive right
to the name “Civil Air Patrol.”

b. The seal, logo and command emblem may not be altered, obscured or modified in any way or used as part of another
emblem or logo without the approval from National Headquarters Public Affairs.

c. The Civil Air Patrol name, seal, logo and/or command emblem will not be used for personal gain. Additionally, the
name, seal, logo and/or command emblem will not be used for any commercial purpose, except under licensing agreement as
approved by the Chief Operating Officer
after review by General Counsel. Approval from National Headquarters Public
Affairs must be obtained to use the seal, logo and/or command emblem in advertisements and for any purpose other than
those listed below."

The above is the only regulatory verbiage I can find on the subject, it only says three things...

A - CAP has the right to the name.

B - The seal, Logo, and command emblem may not be changed without permission, nor included in other logos.

C - The name, seal, logo, and command emblem will not be used for personal gain or commercial purposes.

That's it, there's nothing else there, and no mention of a general prohibition of using other vendors for non-personal / non commercial use.
In fact there's no mention whatsoever of any vendor.  Anything else is an assumption of intent outside the corners of the reg.

A squadron patch, NCSA shirt, or unit hat (etc.), unavailable to the public is neither "personal use" nor "commercial purpose", and further,
the above only asserts input on items which contain the name, seal, logo, or command emblem, which per the above aren't supposed to
be incorporated into unit insignia anyway (though lots violate that rule).

So the USC may well grant rights to "any and all", however what NHQ has chosen to direct it's members to do related to those rights
is specific only to the 4 items named above, not a blanket "everything", and further, only in regards to commercial or for-profit use.

Absent being able to see the verbiage of the license agreement, there's no way to know what tenants do, or do not exist (30 day rule, etc.),
however even assuming NHQ granted full commercial license to VG for "everything", the agreement itself is between VG and CAP, Inc., not the
membership, and if VG feels NHQ isn't complying, they would be within their right to seek injunctive relief that compels CAP, Inc., to
direct it's members as such, presumably via a change to 900-2 or a related reg.

Absent that, CAP members do not take direction from a license agreement that they can't read and aren't a party to.





 6 
 on: Yesterday at 07:45:50 PM 
Started by jfkspotting - Last post by sardak
Here are stats for sorties of 3 hours or longer for primary missions, certainly not all CAP flying. These are for January to mid-June, 2017.

Mission   Air Sorties   Sorties >= 3.0 hrs   % Sorties >= 3.0 hrs    Longest sortie hrs
HLS   435   135   31%   4.8  C182/G1000
SAR   404   80   20%   5.8  C182/G1000
DR   137   15   11%   4.8  C172/G1000
Total   976   230   24%
The long sorties by region
SWR  130 (92 of these are on one on-going mission, 27 are on another)
PCR  35
MER  23
NCR  14
NER  11
GLR    7
RMR   7
SER   3

Does not include one sortie of 8.9 hours (as recorded in WMIRS) by a 206. Probably equipped with the Total Force BuddyTM Air-to-Air Refueling kit.

Mike

 7 
 on: Yesterday at 07:00:16 PM 
Started by xray328 - Last post by ProdigalJim

The actual verbiage is:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/40306
"36 U.S. Code § 40306 - Exclusive right to name, insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, marks, and words

The corporation has the exclusive right to use the name “Civil Air Patrol” and all insignia, copyrights, emblems, badges, descriptive or designating marks, words, and phrases the corporation adopts. This section does not affect any vested rights
."

Beyond the overly broad allowance of "phrases the corporation adopts" (it can't adopt anything owned by another entity
such as "Think Different" or "Like a Good Neighbor, CAP is There.", etc., though it would take a judge to decide that, ultimately.

But the reg, which is what binds member behavior and action, only calls out the "name, seal, logo and/or command emblem",
and then further, only restricts commercial use, not non-commercial, internal use, which would be a normal course of business.

So you can't make CAP hats and sell them to the public for a profit, but there is no restriction on making things for internal use.

The reg in this instance is not controlling, the law is. "The Corporation has the exclusive right to use...all insignia...emblems...the Corporation adopts."

The chain-of-command's act of approving a unit patch for uniform wear would plainly constitute "adoption" under 36 U.S. Code § 40306.

And yes, it sucks. It means VG has the right to stop you from making stuff with your own unit patch so that they can reserve the right to make their own sucky version at a no-doubt higher price. Yay us.

 8 
 on: Yesterday at 04:12:08 PM 
Started by xray328 - Last post by Eclipse
VG has 30 days to offer the item for sale on their website or you are free to source it from wherever you want.  So far they haven't wanted to start selling t-shirts from a squadron yet.

Gonna have to drop a "cite please" here.

You're quoting very specific terms, yet nothing public has any of that verbiage or guidance, and members don't look to vendor agreements for their operational guidance, they are bound by published regulations, the totality of which in this regard, as far as I can tell, are quoted above.

We all know how often people say things because they "know" despite a reg or other document that directly conflicts with the answer.

I also grant you're just echoing what you were told, so it's not on you, regardless.

 9 
 on: Yesterday at 03:07:55 PM 
Started by xray328 - Last post by PHall
There are CAP regulations and there is the contract between CAP and VG.  It is that contract, from my understanding, that give VG first right of refusal for any official CAP item, that includes a unit emblem if it is an emblem that has been approved by the chain of command.

Again, I'm just repeating the guidance we were given.  I haven't read the VG contract but I trust my LO who is way smarter than I am regarding this stuff.

At the end of the day it is not a big deal.  VG has 30 days to offer the item for sale on their website or you are free to source it from wherever you want.  So far they haven't wanted to start selling t-shirts from a squadron yet.

Has your LO actually read the contract? If not then he is guessing just like the rest of us.

 10 
 on: Yesterday at 01:58:59 PM 
Started by xray328 - Last post by kwe1009
There are CAP regulations and there is the contract between CAP and VG.  It is that contract, from my understanding, that give VG first right of refusal for any official CAP item, that includes a unit emblem if it is an emblem that has been approved by the chain of command.

Again, I'm just repeating the guidance we were given.  I haven't read the VG contract but I trust my LO who is way smarter than I am regarding this stuff.

At the end of the day it is not a big deal.  VG has 30 days to offer the item for sale on their website or you are free to source it from wherever you want.  So far they haven't wanted to start selling t-shirts from a squadron yet.

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