I usually wear Long-sleeve blues, no service jacket and a tie...Are ribbons necessary?
On another note, does a C/SRA transitioning to a C/SSGT need a blazer?
Not required, read 39-1.
The blazer is actually a service coat, and there's no real requirement for them. Though, ribbons ARE mandatory with the service coat
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Quote from: jfkspotting on May 21, 2017, 01:03:02 AM
I usually wear Long-sleeve blues, no service jacket and a tie...Are ribbons necessary?
On another note, does a C/SRA transitioning to a C/SSGT need a blazer?
Ribbons are optional, per 39-1. But "optional" isn't synonymous with do as you please. A unit commander or activity director can specify their wear. If not, then the option goes to the individual.
Just to be clear, there is zero requirement for a cadet to own a service coat unless the cadet chooses to be part of the Honor Guard.
Cadets are required to wear ribbons. They may thin them by removing all Cadet Achievement ribbons except the highest. All others must be worn.
Senior members are not required to wear ribbons
Quote from: SARDOC on May 25, 2017, 03:58:19 AM
Cadets are required to wear ribbons. They may thin them by removing all Cadet Achievement ribbons except the highest. All others must be worn.
Senior members are not required to wear ribbons
And where, exactly, does it say in 39-1 that cadets are required to wear ribbons in relation to the blues shirt? I'm interested in what version of 39-1 you may be reading.
For the service coat, this statement is entirely correct. But given OP's question, it appears that you are either confused or answering another question altogether.
EDIT: For reference, Blues shirt:
4.1.9.4.2. Ribbons. Ribbons are optional on the blue shirt. If worn, ribbons will be
centered, resting on, but not over the edge of the pleated pocket on the wearer’s left. For wear and
description, see the applicable paragraphs in chapter 11. Adult member ribbons must fall below the front
edge of the turn down collar in accordance with instructions found in chapter 11.
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on May 21, 2017, 09:07:23 AM
Quote from: jfkspotting on May 21, 2017, 01:03:02 AM
I usually wear Long-sleeve blues, no service jacket and a tie...Are ribbons necessary?
On another note, does a C/SRA transitioning to a C/SSGT need a blazer?
Ribbons are optional, per 39-1. But "optional" isn't synonymous with do as you please. A unit commander or activity director can specify their wear. If not, then the option goes to the individual.
Not unless that commander provides an updated ribbon rack to whomever they want that to apply to.
Quote from: RazorbackPride on May 25, 2017, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on May 21, 2017, 09:07:23 AM
Quote from: jfkspotting on May 21, 2017, 01:03:02 AM
I usually wear Long-sleeve blues, no service jacket and a tie...Are ribbons necessary?
On another note, does a C/SRA transitioning to a C/SSGT need a blazer?
Ribbons are optional, per 39-1. But "optional" isn't synonymous with do as you please. A unit commander or activity director can specify their wear. If not, then the option goes to the individual.
Not unless that commander provides an updated ribbon rack to whomever they want that to apply to.
Have a reg to back that up?
Quote from: Levi Lockling on May 25, 2017, 04:24:10 AM
Quote from: SARDOC on May 25, 2017, 03:58:19 AM
Cadets are required to wear ribbons. They may thin them by removing all Cadet Achievement ribbons except the highest. All others must be worn.
Senior members are not required to wear ribbons
And where, exactly, does it say in 39-1 that cadets are required to wear ribbons in relation to the blues shirt? I'm interested in what version of 39-1 you may be reading.
For the service coat, this statement is entirely correct. But given OP's question, it appears that you are either confused or answering another question altogether.
EDIT: For reference, Blues shirt:
4.1.9.4.2. Ribbons. Ribbons are optional on the blue shirt. If worn, ribbons will be
centered, resting on, but not over the edge of the pleated pocket on the wearer's left. For wear and
description, see the applicable paragraphs in chapter 11. Adult member ribbons must fall below the front
edge of the turn down collar in accordance with instructions found in chapter 11.
You forgot to quote the wear instruction in Chapter 11 which state
Quote from: CAPM 39-111.1.1.1.2. Cadets. Cadets may choose to reduce the height of their ribbon bar by
removing all cadet achievement ribbons but their highest Cadet Program achievement ribbon. All other
earned CAP ribbons and devices must still be worn.
So, ribbons are not optional for cadets.
Quote from: jeders on May 25, 2017, 01:52:26 PM
Quote from: Levi Lockling on May 25, 2017, 04:24:10 AM
Quote from: SARDOC on May 25, 2017, 03:58:19 AM
Cadets are required to wear ribbons. They may thin them by removing all Cadet Achievement ribbons except the highest. All others must be worn.
Senior members are not required to wear ribbons
And where, exactly, does it say in 39-1 that cadets are required to wear ribbons in relation to the blues shirt? I'm interested in what version of 39-1 you may be reading.
For the service coat, this statement is entirely correct. But given OP's question, it appears that you are either confused or answering another question altogether.
EDIT: For reference, Blues shirt:
4.1.9.4.2. Ribbons. Ribbons are optional on the blue shirt. If worn, ribbons will be
centered, resting on, but not over the edge of the pleated pocket on the wearer's left. For wear and
description, see the applicable paragraphs in chapter 11. Adult member ribbons must fall below the front
edge of the turn down collar in accordance with instructions found in chapter 11.
You forgot to quote the wear instruction in Chapter 11 which state
Quote from: CAPM 39-111.1.1.1.2. Cadets. Cadets may choose to reduce the height of their ribbon bar by
removing all cadet achievement ribbons but their highest Cadet Program achievement ribbon. All other
earned CAP ribbons and devices must still be worn.
So, ribbons are not optional for cadets.
11.1.1.1.1.2 describes how they are to be worn. you need to go back to 4.1.9.4.2. which says, "Ribbons are optional on the blue shirt... For wear and description, see the applicable paragraphs in chapter 11."
Commanders can mandate the wear of any optional uniform item but only if it is provided to the member for free. They can also prohibit the wear of any optional uniform item (2.10.5)
In the USAF culture, officers do not wear ribbons on their shirts -- rather they wear them on the service coat. The practice/policy at National Staff College is that ribbons are not worn 0n shirts. So I have made it a general practice not to wear ribbons on my shirt. When I was a region chaplain and director of the Chaplain Corps Region Staff College, our CCRSC was held on an USAF base. I would follow the USAF culture and the practice/policy of NSC and not authorize the wear of ribbons on the shirt for that event.
The only time that I do wear ribbons on my shirt is at Encampment graduation ceremonies where it is a part of CAP/cadet culture to wear the ribbons on the shirt. And I have a magnetic set for that...no holes in the shirt for me :)
Quote from: kwe1009 on May 25, 2017, 02:47:45 PM
Quote from: jeders on May 25, 2017, 01:52:26 PM
Quote from: Levi Lockling on May 25, 2017, 04:24:10 AM
Quote from: SARDOC on May 25, 2017, 03:58:19 AM
Cadets are required to wear ribbons. They may thin them by removing all Cadet Achievement ribbons except the highest. All others must be worn.
Senior members are not required to wear ribbons
And where, exactly, does it say in 39-1 that cadets are required to wear ribbons in relation to the blues shirt? I'm interested in what version of 39-1 you may be reading.
For the service coat, this statement is entirely correct. But given OP's question, it appears that you are either confused or answering another question altogether.
EDIT: For reference, Blues shirt:
4.1.9.4.2. Ribbons. Ribbons are optional on the blue shirt. If worn, ribbons will be
centered, resting on, but not over the edge of the pleated pocket on the wearer's left. For wear and
description, see the applicable paragraphs in chapter 11. Adult member ribbons must fall below the front
edge of the turn down collar in accordance with instructions found in chapter 11.
You forgot to quote the wear instruction in Chapter 11 which state
Quote from: CAPM 39-111.1.1.1.2. Cadets. Cadets may choose to reduce the height of their ribbon bar by
removing all cadet achievement ribbons but their highest Cadet Program achievement ribbon. All other
earned CAP ribbons and devices must still be worn.
So, ribbons are not optional for cadets.
11.1.1.1.1.2 describes how they are to be worn. you need to go back to 4.1.9.4.2. which says, "Ribbons are optional on the blue shirt... For wear and description, see the applicable paragraphs in chapter 11."
Commanders can mandate the wear of any optional uniform item but only if it is provided to the member for free. They can also prohibit the wear of any optional uniform item (2.10.5)
Exactly. 11.1.1.1.1.2 dictates how ribbons are worn(All, some, or none) but are not the ultimate authority per uniform. That's where my prior quote comes in, as it dictates that ribbons may or may not be worn on the blues shirt.
4.1.9.2 is saying that,
should cadets choose to wear ribbons on the shirt, then the ribbons shall be worn according to the standards set forth in 11.1.1.1.1.2.
This clearly demonstrates another area where better proofreading should have happened. However, the intent is clear; cadets have always been required to wear ribbons and they still are. Short of guidance from NHQ stating otherwise, ribbons are still mandatory for cadets, though they have the option to remove some of them in order to short stack.
Quote from: jeders on May 25, 2017, 05:15:28 PM
This clearly demonstrates another area where better proofreading should have happened. However, the intent is clear; cadets have always been required to wear ribbons and they still are. Short of guidance from NHQ stating otherwise, ribbons are still mandatory for cadets, though they have the option to remove some of them in order to short stack.
What? I'd say your stated intent is far from clear; cadets have never been, and still are not, required to wear ribbons on their shirts. It literally says
optional when discussing ribbons in regards to shirts in 4.1.9.4.2. It doesn't say anything that would restrict that to SMs, or anything like that. 11.1.1.1.1.2 is literally just a way to describe wear of ribbons when they
are worn.
Quote from: jeders on May 25, 2017, 05:15:28 PM
This clearly demonstrates another area where better proofreading should have happened. However, the intent is clear; cadets have always been required to wear ribbons and they still are. Short of guidance from NHQ stating otherwise, ribbons are still mandatory for cadets, though they have the option to remove some of them in order to short stack.
I would disagree, you can just read 11.1.1.1.1.2 (which is an exception) without reading 11.1.1.1.1. There is no ambiguity. Ribbons are optional on the Class B Uniform. The whole regulation reads:
11.1.1.1. Ribbons and devices are mandatory with the USAF-style Service Dress (Class A) and USAF-style Semiformal uniforms,
and optional with the USAF-style Blue Service Uniform (Class B) and Corporate-style Aviator Shirt Uniforms.
When ribbons and devices are worn, all authorized ribbons will be worn on USAF-style uniforms, except:
11.1.1.1.1. Officers and NCOs. On the USAF-style uniforms, all ribbons, badges, and devices worn by adult members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the
bottom tip of the collar of shirts/blouses when those are worn without a service coat. Individuals may choose which ribbons to eliminate to meet this requirement, but are encouraged to initially remove CAP
professional development ribbons to reach the required height. (Note, CAP aviation and chaplain badges remain mandatory for wear on USAF-style uniforms and ribbons may need to be removed to meet this requirement.)
11.1.1.1.2. Cadets. Cadets may choose to reduce the height of their ribbon bar by removing all cadet achievement ribbons but their highest Cadet Program achievement ribbon. All other earned CAP ribbons and devices must still be worn.
Additionally, there is no basis for a historical requirement either. In the old version of CAPM39-1 (23 MARCH 2005 with ICLs) cadets were not required to wear ribbons on the shirt either:
2-4. Men's Long-sleeve Shirt (Cadets)
4. Ribbons: Worn resting on but not over top edge of left pocket and centered between the left and right edges with 3 in a row. Wear all or none.
2-6. Men's Short-sleeve Shirt (Cadets)
4. Ribbons: Worn resting on but not over top edge of left pocket and centered between the left and right edges with 3 in a row. Wear all or none.
Edit to fix minor formatting issue
Quote from: Anthony@CAP on May 25, 2017, 05:24:48 PM
Quote from: jeders on May 25, 2017, 05:15:28 PM
This clearly demonstrates another area where better proofreading should have happened. However, the intent is clear; cadets have always been required to wear ribbons and they still are. Short of guidance from NHQ stating otherwise, ribbons are still mandatory for cadets, though they have the option to remove some of them in order to short stack.
I would disagree, you can just read 11.1.1.1.1.2 (which is an exception) without reading 11.1.1.1.1. There is no ambiguity. Ribbons are optional on the Class B Uniform. The whole regulation reads:
11.1.1.1. Ribbons and devices are mandatory with the USAF-style Service Dress (Class A) and USAF-style Semiformal uniforms, and optional with the USAF-style Blue Service Uniform (Class B) and Corporate-style Aviator Shirt Uniforms. When ribbons and devices are worn, all authorized ribbons will be worn on USAF-style uniforms, except:
11.1.1.1.1. Officers and NCOs. On the USAF-style uniforms, all ribbons, badges, and devices worn by adult members must fall below the top notch of the collar on the service coat or the
bottom tip of the collar of shirts/blouses when those are worn without a service coat. Individuals may choose which ribbons to eliminate to meet this requirement, but are encouraged to initially remove CAP
professional development ribbons to reach the required height. (Note, CAP aviation and chaplain badges remain mandatory for wear on USAF-style uniforms and ribbons may need to be removed to meet this requirement.)
11.1.1.1.2. Cadets. Cadets may choose to reduce the height of their ribbon bar by removing all cadet achievement ribbons but their highest Cadet Program achievement ribbon. All other earned CAP ribbons and devices must still be worn.
Additionally, there is no basis for a historical requirement either. In the old version of CAPM39-1 (23 MARCH 2005 with ICLs) cadets were not required to wear ribbons on the shirt either:
2-4. Men's Long-sleeve Shirt (Cadets)
4. Ribbons: Worn resting on but not over top edge of left pocket and centered between the left and right edges with 3 in a row. Wear all or none.
2-6. Men's Short-sleeve Shirt (Cadets)
4. Ribbons: Worn resting on but not over top edge of left pocket and centered between the left and right edges with 3 in a row. Wear all or none.
Edit to fix minor formatting issue
Thanks for the clarification. This is a good example of what happens when you only read one paragraph in any reg. Bottom line is that ribbons are not now, and haven't been, mandatory on the blue shirt for cadets or anyone else.