http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/F161_023ECA81C03FB.pdf (http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/F161_023ECA81C03FB.pdf)
This is supposed to be an emergency contact form, so what is the need to provide my medical insurance information, including
Co-pays and prescription coverage? And they want copies of the cards. For what?
In a medical emergency, that information can be provided by my spouse, or a cadet's parents when they show up.
Or the mailing address of my physician? I can sort of see the Dr's phone number, but what is CAP going to mail him? A recruiting form?
Not to mention that the form doesn't ask for, or include, any health information like allergies, etc.
Also, does anyone have a copy of the official verbiage of the change? I haven't seen it from any official NHQ channels, and of course
this asserts to supercede regulations that don't have a mechanism for that.
Since hospitals can't refuse service in an emergency anyway, I agree, I don't see the need for the insurance information.
National updated the Health Services reg (CAPR 160-1?). There are also a series of forms put forth in the new reg. The medical history is a separate form.
Well, they missed one, though admittedly the connection to this subject is a little tenuous.
CAPR 35-2, Notification Procedures in Case of Death, Injury or Serious Illness ::)
Yeah, there's no need for all that info.
Besides, if you present to an ER, or are transported by ambulance, you'll be treated regardless. And even if the insurance cards/info can't be provided at the time of service, they usually just send a bill with a "if you have insurance, please call us and tell us about it" and it gets handled from there.
CAP: Solving problems that we didn't know we had. Because we didn't.
Medical insurance policy numbers, combined with your name, are protected health information (PHI) under the HIPAA and HITECH acts. Medical providers and insurance companies are required to carefully guard that information. Failure to do so can result in civil or criminal penalties. An information breach can expose you to medical identity theft which has the potential to cause you some serious grief. Under the right circumstances it can even be life threatening.
Quote
Medical identity theft occurs when someone uses your personal health information without your knowledge or consent to obtain, or receive payment for, medical treatment, services, or goods. It often results in erroneous entries being placed in existing medical records, and can involve the creation of fictitious medical records in the victim's name leaving a trail of falsified information in medical records that can plague your medical and financial life for years, or even put your health at risk. - See more at: http://www.myphr.com/privacy/medical_identity_theft.aspx#sthash.nKvlg2a4.dpuf (http://www.myphr.com/privacy/medical_identity_theft.aspx#sthash.nKvlg2a4.dpuf)
CAP is not a covered entity for the HIPAA and HITECH privacy rules. Yet the same disclosure risks apply. The new regulation requires CAP members to guard our PHI, and I'm sure everyone will follow those rules at least as well as they follow 39-1. >:D
The only possible reason CAP might need my info is if I'm injured during CAP activities and CAP needs to coordinate benefits with my personal insurance. That's a long shot. Otherwise CAP doesn't need the info and I will refuse to provide it.
I like that they took the commander's contact info off- that can always be looked up from the squadron number- but no blood type or allergies?
Quote from: UH60guy on June 13, 2013, 11:59:36 AM
I like that they took the commander's contact info off- that can always be looked up from the squadron number- but no blood type or allergies?
Why? is someone in CAP going to be doing a blood transfusion? Any medical facility that does will have typing capabilities.
IMO, an emergency contact form needs to have contact information. If something happens, don't look up my for 60 or my form 161. Take me to the hospital, then take the copy I turned in and call my emergency contact information.
Quote from: bflynn on June 13, 2013, 12:34:05 PM
Why? is someone in CAP going to be doing a blood transfusion? Any medical facility that does will have typing capabilities.
Agree. I'm not a medical professional, but I've been told "Don't worry about blood type on your dog tags or on the form, cuz they're
always gonna type and match you before they give you any blood.." I assume this to be true (and have repeated it to others over the years), but anybody who is in the profession want to chime in there?
I agree, you're probably right. Though it does make me feel more important to be able tell the medics putting someone on the ambulance the blood type, whether or not it's helpful. I think allergies is the bigger concern to know about though, and prescription pills so that information is handy. I see the new CAPF 163 addresses over-the-counter drugs though.
Quote from: UH60guy on June 13, 2013, 11:59:36 AM
I like that they took the commander's contact info off- that can always be looked up from the squadron number- but no blood type or allergies?
Commander's contact info is the last set of boxes on the form.
The new F160 asks about allergies and other more detailed health information, more akin to the medical section of the (still presumably current) Form 31.
Ah, thanks. That explains my confusion. I was only tracking the 161, 162, and 163 and was unaware of the 160. Maybe I should finish my reading before asking questions...
Just took a look at this and it appears to be another attempt at data mining to support failed (or about to fail) government programs.
CAP has my name, address, emergency contact information for family and physician, blood type, and allergies and that's all they are gouing to get.
Insurance data: If I am injured those who need it (and that's NOT CAP) can ask either me or my wife.
Prescription data: same.
Attach Insurance Cards: Not going to happen
My cell phone #: Why? I probably have it with me and if I am injured I already know it.
Allergy Information: OK I do have a medalert tag with my "dogtags" listing blood type and allergies things the first responders need to know. So why is this deleted from the form?
I am but one individual and don't matter a heck of a lot in the overall scheme of things, but CAP is not a cornerstone to my life and is in constant competition with my boat, RV, personal flying, and dog shows. Too many mindless minions at NHQ thinking up nonsense in the guise of their job security and they may persuade me to close the book and walk away.
The new regulation does seem to address HIPAA and record confidentiality both for the new Form 160 and any medical information in the form of physicals required for encampments. It goes well beyond the snippet below.
3-1. Guidelines for Use and Storage of Health Information.
a. Record Storage. When completed CAP 160 series forms are not in use, they will be stored separately in a locked container accessible only to authorized senior members. When health information is stored on a computer, it will not be accessible to unauthorized members. Ultimately information must be destroyed at the end of the activity or event unless needed for legal or insurance purposes whether stored on computer or hard copy, unless returned to the member or the member's parent or guardian.
b. Record Use. When health information is in use, care must be taken to ensure records are not in the view of individuals who have no need to know such information.
Quote from: UH60guy on June 13, 2013, 01:08:34 PM
I agree, you're probably right. Though it does make me feel more important to be able tell the medics putting someone on the ambulance the blood type, whether or not it's helpful. I think allergies is the bigger concern to know about though, and prescription pills so that information is handy. I see the new CAPF 163 addresses over-the-counter drugs though.
I have friends who are EMTs and such. They make lots of jokes about "helpful" folks who feel good about passing along irrelevant info like blood type, but can't answer stuff that might be important like allergies and such.
I think known allergies and any meds is far more important data to an EMT/Paramedic delivering immediate care.
Wow, I was just looking through these forms and cringing at all of the pushback I'm going to get from parents when I send these home for every...single...activity. Why would I do that? Because I don't want to be responsible for keeping any of this info any longer than I absolutely have to.
I have a lot to say, but I'll start with CAPF 161. For starters, CAPR 160-1 is grossly inaccurate when describing this form. Here's the applicable paragraph:
Quote
b. CAPF 161, Emergency Information. This form contains medical insurance, physician and emergency contact information, minor cadet consent for participation, self-medication and emergency medical treatment. CAPF 161 supersedes CAPF 60, Emergency Notification Data. This form does not contain any confidential medical information and may be copied and turned in at an activity as needed. A copy of the member's insurance card (front and back) should be attached to this form. A copy of this form should be kept on the member's person when participating in a CAP activity. A copy may be required to be turned in with registration materials for some activities.
Number one, the actual form does NOT contain anything about "minor cadet consent for participation, self-medication and emergency medical treatment;" that's all covered on other forms. Number two, I believe that information about a member's health coverage (including a copy of the card) qualifies as "confidential medical information."
Also, I really have to question
WHY NHQ thinks all of this information is necessary. As stated elsewhere in this thread, ERs do not refuse treatment to people without insurance, so we don't need that info. Also, I'm pretty sure that we won't be contacting another member's personal physician for anything, and if we did, I'm equally certain that they would cite HIPAA while refusing to speak with us.
Moving on to the CAPF 160, again, there's a lot of info that I have to question the need for:
Past surgical history and immunizations? Patients or their parents can handle that as needed, which would be after CAP fulfills its role to arrange for emergency care.
All of the detailed info on prescription medications? Not really necessary since CAP requires that all medications be in their original containers. Just give us the name of the medication (for authorization) and the dosing instructions (as a convenience for anyone that agrees to monitor this).
Social history? None of that has ANY bearing whatsoever on the potential or actual medical needs of our members as they participate in CAP activities.
Now we get to the CAPF 162, which really gets my blood boiling. IMHO, there is absolutely NO need for this to include the Vital Signs and Physical Examination sections. The only thing that CAP should be concerned with is the doctor's evaluation of the member's physical participation category. I simply cannot conceive of any legitimate need for anyone in CAP to have that much information about another member's physical and mental history.
I can't really complain about the CAPF 163, although it could probably be rolled into one of the other forms.
My prediction as a Cadet Programs officer is that parents will return these forms so that their cadets can participate in our activities, but that they will do so with many unfilled blanks. I have no problem with that, as I haven't read anything that requires every box to be filled.
Finally, I wonder how this compares to the information that similar groups require from their members.
I'm going to go ahead and ask why this information isn't just added to member personnel data in eServices, which could then be pulled off
by approved personnel as-needed.
The majority of the information that is actually >needed< by anyone during an activity, is already contained in eServices, however there is so little
stress placed on maintaining that information accurately, that these forms are needed.
All senior members are not required to have a photo on file - I'd guess only about 1/2 my wing's senior even know this is an option., etc., etc., etc.
As to the forms themselves, they look like someone wandered over of a GSA or corporate file cabinet, grabbed stuff that looked "right", and
called it a day, with little thought to their being applicable or necessary to the field. Some of these forms don't even fill the page, and the
footers don't look like typical CAP docs. They were also not properly scrubbed of identifying property data and still indicate the private
company that the author's machine belongs too.
As to the "social history" WT? That kind of information is unnecessary on this type of form, since these are supposed to be "use and destroy"
forms. Cadets aren't allowed to use tobacco, and it's none of CAP's business if a senior does, since they are not providing health care or insurance.
Generally those questions are asked for actuarial risk analysis or statistical use, neither of which is going to happen on a form from an activity
or encampment which never leaves the CC or HSO's custody and is destroyed after the activity.
Another case where they should have been posted for comment before publishing anything as a "final".
I suggest that folks lean on CAPR 160-1 Paragraph 3-2:
QuoteHealth information should be collected only when
that information might make a difference in the safe participation of the member(s).
So...for insurance information, maybe if you're taking a bunch of cadets on an overnight trip somewhere, and want the option to go to a doctor's office instead of the ER should something minor happens, maybe...otherwise, instruct folks to leave that section blank.
Family physician phone number doesn't seem too intrusive. Address, who cares...
Again, there's nothing on these forms that mandates that everything needs to be filled out.
Take out the insurance stuff, and you've basically changed the CAPF 160 onto a CAPF 60.
Quote from: Eclipse on June 13, 2013, 04:46:07 PM
Another case where they should have been posted for comment before publishing anything as a "final".
I've not seen a regulation update put out for comment since our "Governance Change" process started.
OK, I get it, the big dump of new regs for the changeover would probably have been a PITA to solicit comments for, but we're back to routine ops now, having some people who actually have to implement these regs have a read of them before they get stamped "Approved" would be a pretty cheap QC measure.
The new, redesigned CAPMEMBERS.com page no longer even has a section for Regulations for Comment.
Putting the health info stuff aside for a moment, I still don't understand the need for a 160 or a 60, what a waste of time.
Emergency contact info can be added to eServices and accessed if and when needed.
In a life-threatening emergency, you call 911, not mom. In anything less, there's time to access eservices, either directly, or
via phone to a trusted party elsewhere. And since emergency contact info >isn't< a HIPPA issue, that info could be included
in CAPWatch downloads for things like SIMMS, the encampment system, etc.
In fact, just print it on the 101 card, and require >EVERYONE< to carry one, GES or no. Stick in a quarterly, non-optional
review of the data, like safety is now, and everyone moves on.
Quote from: Eclipse on June 13, 2013, 04:58:33 PM
Putting the health info stuff aside for a moment, I still don't understand the need for a 160 or a 60, what a waste of time.
Emergency contact info can be added to eServices and accessed if and when needed.
In a life-threatening emergency, you call 911, not mom. In anything less, there's time to access eservices, either directly, or
via phone to a trusted party elsewhere. And since emergency contact info >isn't< a HIPPA issue, that info could be included
in CAPWatch downloads for things like SIMMS, the encampment system, etc.
In fact, just print it on the 101 card, and require >EVERYONE< to carry one, GES or no. Stick in a quarterly, non-optional
review of the data, like safety is now, and everyone moves on.
That makes WAY too much sense.
Quote from: NIN on June 13, 2013, 12:41:25 PM
Quote from: bflynn on June 13, 2013, 12:34:05 PM
Why? is someone in CAP going to be doing a blood transfusion? Any medical facility that does will have typing capabilities.
Agree. I'm not a medical professional, but I've been told "Don't worry about blood type on your dog tags or on the form, cuz they're always gonna type and match you before they give you any blood.." I assume this to be true (and have repeated it to others over the years), but anybody who is in the profession want to chime in there?
Mostly true. In absolutely dire emergencies, where type and crossing isn't time feasable (such as massive trauma/exsanguination) they will administer uncrossmatched blood, typically ONeg, but Ive seen OPos used in certain situations depending on the facility and patient. Our air medical service around here carries 2 units of uncrossmatched "trauma blood" for just such occasions. (For those of you who watched "Inside Combat Rescue" on NatGeo, same deal. They were hanging uncrossmatched blood). Other than air medical, most EMS services won't carry it because it's 1) expensive and 2) not used enough to justify the cost and constantly having to throw it out.
But, uncrossmatched blood is just a stop-gap while they're typing and crossing you, and then they'll typically administer type-specific blood as soon as that's done. And they won't administer type specific blood based just on a dogtag or piece of paper, unless that piece of paper is a certified type and screen from THEIR facility. Too many bad things happen when you administer the wrong type of blood to a patient.
Yeah, I'll be filling out my info and my emergency contact info and thats it.
I Kind of have an issue with the new forms. I, for one, have medicine allergies. So if there was an emergency and I ended up being treated with those medicines...... Let's just say I might not make it to see the next day. I think they should come up with a new and improved form. Just an idea...
Anyone with life-threatening allergies should have a medic alert bracelet, necklace, sub-dermal chip, or even a tattoo.
I would not trust my life to a CAP form, and now with the new security requirements, getting to them would probably cause more
delay then you'd want with a medical transport, etc.
Another thing not changed is that a From 60 is still required to be on your person for ES, yet you can no longer download the 60 from NHQ.
I always considered it a PITA, but the old 60 in your pocket is infinitely more useful then a 161 locked in someones file cabinet (as is now required).
What CAP emergency procedures should be:
Step 1 - Call 911
Step 2 - Let me work it out from there
Step 3 - If I'm in a coma, crack out eServices and call the guy listed there (my dad)
I will not be filling out anything on this form but the emergency contact info. I debated leaving half of my NESA medical form blank too, but decided it wasn't worth fighting over. There's no reason for CAP to know all of a SMs medical conditions, medications, insurance info, etc. I'm a big boy.
For myself I put Insurance information is not available on the Form 161 because its nobody's business