A Different Use For SELCAL...

[Brad]

...as an alarm clock! At least that's what I would have tried, had the aircraft been SELCAL equipped. If not....ok I'm out of ideas.

From FoxNews.com:

HONOLULU  —  The pilots of an inter-island flight from Honolulu to Hilo failed to respond to air traffic controllers 11 times as it overshot its destination by 15 miles while flying at an altitude of 21,000 feet.

According to air traffic control tapes obtained by TV station KGMB, a controller monitoring airspace around Maui repeatedly tried to raise the two pilots of the go! flight on Feb. 13. They are being investigated for possibly falling asleep during the 214-mile flight.

The controller was initially unable to contact the pilots of Flight 1002 when she tried to call them about 15 minutes after the plane left Honolulu.

Finally, about 32 minutes into the flight, the captain responded, and the controller said: "Air shuttle 1002, guys, I've been trying to contact you for the last 90 to 100 miles. I understand you've passed Hilo, I'm going to turn you back to the northeast bound to get you back to the Hilo airport. Is there some kind of emergency situation going on?"

"Uh no emergency situation," the captain said.

After listening to the tapes, airline analyst Peter Foreman told KGMB on Friday that it was clear something was wrong.

"By the time you get 60 miles from your destination, it's time to descend," he said. "So obviously someone was not minding the store."

The National Transportation Safety Board has said the flight had no mechanical problems, but its preliminary report reached no conclusion as to why the plane overshot Hilo International Airport. The Federal Aviation Administration is also investigating.

Go!'s parent company, Phoenix-based Mesa Air Group, grounded both pilots while the investigations continued.

The flight, which also carried 40 passengers and a flight attendant, landed safely.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,338232,00.html

[mynetdude]

I realize the cabin/flight deck is pressurized, is there any possibility the PSI of the pressurization was below normal for some reason causing the pilots to get sleepy? Everyone reacts to pressurization a bit differently and some people need a bit more to stay alert than others so that is why I ask?

Could be a silly question, but a thought...  I remember about an incident a few years ago about a private learjet depressurized both pilots were dead already ATC couldn't contact them, the aircraft was escorted by the USAF until it ran out of fuel and crashed in some desolate area.  Obviously these two incidents are not remotely the same, however having less pressure in the cabin/flight deck than normal could possibly cause it right?

[CASH172]

I do know a similar event happened with a Greek Flight and was escorted by the Hellenic AF.  It was a commercial 737 I think and it soon lost contact and kept flying.  The two F-16s saw everyone slumped over with a person in the cockpit fidgeting with the controls with some type of mask on.  Eventually, the plane swerved and crashed on its own.  Apparently the investigation concluded the pilots never even pressurized the aircraft from the start.  So the pilots gradually lost conscienceless and their emergency oxygen system is only good for a few minutes.  Apparently two flight attendants got on supplemental oxygen and they tried taking control of the aircraft but it ran out of fuel. 

[mynetdude]

I do know a similar event happened with a Greek Flight and was escorted by the Hellenic AF.  It was a commercial 737 I think and it soon lost contact and kept flying.  The two F-16s saw everyone slumped over with a person in the cockpit fidgeting with the controls with some type of mask on.  Eventually, the plane swerved and crashed on its own.  Apparently the investigation concluded the pilots never even pressurized the aircraft from the start.  So the pilots gradually lost conscienceless and their emergency oxygen system is only good for a few minutes.  Apparently two flight attendants got on supplemental oxygen and they tried taking control of the aircraft but it ran out of fuel. 

Thats why I asked if there was a possibility of low pressure causing the pilots to sleep, low level of oxygen will do that. Even though the Greek airliner and private learjet that were not pressurized/lost pressure are related incidents, this Go! flight isn't quite as similar and I would assume it was pressurized because they woke up apparently.

[sardak]

The Learjet crashed in South Dakota and was carrying pro golfer Payne Stewart.  The full report is here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2000/AAB0001.pdf

Given the limited facts of the Hawaii incident, one can't really speculate, but it doesn't sound like a pressurization problem would be the cause.

I was on search once where the pilot of a courier flight fell asleep with the plane on autopilot, the plane overflew the destination airport and crashed into a mountain.

Mike

[mynetdude]

The Learjet crashed in South Dakota and was carrying pro golfer Payne Stewart.  The full report is here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2000/AAB0001.pdf

Given the limited facts of the Hawaii incident, one can't really speculate, but it doesn't sound like a pressurization problem would be the cause.

I was on search once where the pilot of a courier flight fell asleep with the plane on autopilot, the plane overflew the destination airport and crashed into a mountain.

Mike

I heard about an incident about a private pilot who was flying to Lousiana or to the florida keys or something I can't remember... he fell asleep  he ended up waking up quite a ways away from land somewhere over the gulf of mexico/Florida and he didn't have enough fuel to make it back to land so ATC notified coast guard they responded and he ditched his plane then shortly after he was then rescued by USCG.

That pilot lost his license too, falling asleep while flying is dangerous.

[scooter]

If this fight in Hawaii was a part 121 flight, and the cabin pressure went above 10000 ft., there would be all sorts of warning noise in the cockpit to alert the pilots. In addition, oxygen masks would automatically deploy in the pax cabin. Those guys just went to sleep.    This would not necessarily apply to biz jets or part 135 operations.

[mynetdude]

If this fight in Hawaii was a part 121 flight, and the cabin pressure went above 10000 ft., there would be all sorts of warning noise in the cockpit to alert the pilots. In addition, oxygen masks would automatically deploy in the pax cabin. Those guys just went to sleep.    This would not necessarily apply to biz jets or part 135 operations.

Well if that is the case, why BOTH pilots at the same time? And if that were the case I'll bet these guys are grounded for good.

[SJFedor]

If this fight in Hawaii was a part 121 flight, and the cabin pressure went above 10000 ft., there would be all sorts of warning noise in the cockpit to alert the pilots. In addition, oxygen masks would automatically deploy in the pax cabin. Those guys just went to sleep.    This would not necessarily apply to biz jets or part 135 operations.

Well if that is the case, why BOTH pilots at the same time? And if that were the case I'll bet these guys are grounded for good.

Out too late the night before?

[flynd94]

Well, being a Part 121 pilot, its easy to understand why you could fall asleep in the cockpit.  Early shows, minimum crew rest.   It all adds up, especially if its day 3 or 4 of a trip.

Yes, we have min rest requirements.  They are a joke.  Our rest clock starts 15 minutes after we block in (door opens, engines shutdown) and starts at 45 minutes before your departure.  Now you have to wait for the pax to deplane, do your walk around, grab the hotel shuttle (never waiting for you at the airport), take the 15-30 shuttle ride to the hotel, check in and, then think about going to sleep.  I don't know about you but, I haven't mastered the ability to go straight from work to sleep.  I need an hour to wind down.  Now take the next morning.

You have a 600am departure, with a 515am show time.  Its that same 15-30 minute shuttle ride so, you have a 445am shuttle.  I don't need that much time so, I get a 400am wake up.  Its very possible that I am only going to work with 4-6 hours of sleep but, I am legal by the FAR legal min rest requirement of 9 hours.

If you aren't a Part 121 pilot, you would be surprised by what goes on when the door is shut.



PS Brad are you a dispatcher?  If you are, why don't you answer SELCAL or my ACARS free text messages?  Too busy watching TV?  jk

[Brad]

No I'm not a dispatcher....well not an airline dispatcher anyways...I dispatch with my campus police department, heh.

As for SELCAL, I know of that through VATSIM. Have yet to fly an oceanic track myself, and I control with ATL, so no need for that on the ATC side with me, heh.

[mynetdude]

No I'm not a dispatcher....well not an airline dispatcher anyways...I dispatch with my campus police department, heh.

As for SELCAL, I know of that through VATSIM. Have yet to fly an oceanic track myself, and I control with ATL, so no need for that on the ATC side with me, heh.

Yeah I'm looking forward to using SELCAL for my oceanic flights back on VATSIM again

[flynd94]

Ah, so you guys are gamers........      I do believe most Part 121 companies have SELCAL or we monitor a company freq in Comm 2.  Just SOP.

[scooter]

Well, being a Part 121 pilot, its easy to understand why you could fall asleep in the cockpit.  Early shows, minimum crew rest.   It all adds up, especially if its day 3 or 4 of a trip.

Yes, we have min rest requirements.  They are a joke.  Our rest clock starts 15 minutes after we block in (door opens, engines shutdown) and starts at 45 minutes before your departure.  Now you have to wait for the pax to deplane, do your walk around, grab the hotel shuttle (never waiting for you at the airport), take the 15-30 shuttle ride to the hotel, check in and, then think about going to sleep.  I don't know about you but, I haven't mastered the ability to go straight from work to sleep.  I need an hour to wind down.  Now take the next morning.

You have a 600am departure, with a 515am show time.  Its that same 15-30 minute shuttle ride so, you have a 445am shuttle.  I don't need that much time so, I get a 400am wake up.  Its very possible that I am only going to work with 4-6 hours of sleep but, I am legal by the FAR legal min rest requirement of 9 hours.



As a former Part 121, pilot all the above is true. However, none of this is an excuse for falling asleep at the switch. They are toast!