CAP plane lands on highway

[RiverAux]

From Wisconsin...2 CAP pilots practicing engine-out landing couldn't get it revved back up again and landed on a highway....

Great photo with the story: http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080311/WDH0101/303110039/1981

Also: http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/16561906.html

Title edit - MIKE

[ctrossen]

After a once-over by a mechanic, and presumably a slew of electronic and phone communications, the aircraft took off from the highway and returned safely to its home base ~8nm away.

Great job from the pilots, who were on a F5 checkride, for a safe landing!

[jimmydeanno]

Does that mean the guy getting the F5 passed?  Or does an emergency landing require a 'redo?'

[wingnut]

Can you say "GROUNDED",  I wonder  why they were 8 nm from the nearest Air Port when doing this procedure, and what was their altitude. Boy I hate to be in the hot seat on that one, BUT! good landing guys my heart goes out to you on this one.

[Frenchie]

Can you say "GROUNDED",  I wonder  why they were 8 nm from the nearest Air Port when doing this procedure, and what was their altitude. Boy I hate to be in the hot seat on that one, BUT! good landing guys my heart goes out to you on this one.

Why wouldn't they be 8nm from the nearest airport?  It's not much of an engine out check if there's an airport right beneath you.

Their altitude should have been > 500' AGL per 60-1, but 500' doesn't give you a lot of options when the engine goes sputter.

[♠SARKID♠]

Haha, I read the thread title and thought you were talking about last years EAA incident in Fon Du Lac, WI.  Then I read my wing info report and realized what you were talking about.

[SJFedor]

Can you say "GROUNDED",  I wonder  why they were 8 nm from the nearest Air Port when doing this procedure, and what was their altitude. Boy I hate to be in the hot seat on that one, BUT! good landing guys my heart goes out to you on this one.

Are you a pilot? If so, you've NEVER had an instructor pull your engine while you're away from the airport, and make you run the emergency procedure, establish, find a suitable landing area, and begin the approach, until abandoning it 500-1000ft AGL? It's been a part of every checkride, Form 5, and aircraft checkout I've ever done. It's also part of the private pilot practical test standards:

X. Areas of Operation: Emergency Operations
a. Task: Emergency Approach and Landing (simulated)

References: FAA-H-8083-3; POH/AFM

Objective. To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to emergency approach and landing procedures.
2. Analyzes the situation and selects an appropriate course of action.
3. Establishes and maintains the recommended best-glide airspeed, +/- 10 knots.
4. Selects a suitable landing area.
5. Plans and follows a flight pattern to the selected landing area considering altitude, wind, terrain, and obstructions.
6. Prepares for landing, or go around, as specified by the examiner.
7. Follows the appropriate checklist.

B. TASK: SYSTEMS AND EQUIPMENT MALFUNCTIONS
(ASEL and ASES)

REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-3; POH/AFM.

Objective. To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to system and equipment
malfunctions appropriate to the airplane provided for the practical
test.

2. Analyzes the situation and takes appropriate action for simulated
emergencies appropriate to the airplane provided for the practical
test for at least three (3) of the following—

a. partial or complete power loss.
b. engine roughness or overheat.
c. carburetor or induction icing.
d. loss of oil pressure.
e. fuel starvation.
f. electrical malfunction.
g. vacuum/pressure, and associated flight instruments malfunction.
h. pitot/static.
i. landing gear or flap malfunction.
j. inoperative trim.
k. inadvertent door or window opening.
l. structural icing.
m. smoke/fire/engine compartment fire.
n. any other emergency appropriate to the airplane.

3. Follows the appropriate checklist or procedure.

They did an awesome job. Period.

[Hammerhead]

So if they were able to start the plane right back up after the mechanic looked at it, what happenen then?  Why did the plane not respond to the throttle when they tried to recover after the emergency landing drill? 

Either way they will have some questions to answer to CAP and the FAA.  Was it a Form 5/F91?  Was the PIC with an instructor pilot? 

[Al Sayre]

Carb icing is one of a myriad of possibilities that come to mind.  The FAA won't have much to say.  They made a safe, off airport landing, nobody was injured and they can still fly the plane.  No harm, no foul.

[SJFedor]

So if they were able to start the plane right back up after the mechanic looked at it, what happenen then?  Why did the plane not respond to the throttle when they tried to recover after the emergency landing drill? 

Either way they will have some questions to answer to CAP and the FAA.  Was it a Form 5/F91?  Was the PIC with an instructor pilot? 

Coulda fowled the plugs during the extended idle period, could have had a partial failure of the engine driven fuel pump, coulda been a linkage failure in the throttle assembly (has happened before). I'm sure more answers will come out of the investigation. Either way, they did a stellar job with a crap situation.

Carb icing is one of a myriad of possibilities that come to mind.  The FAA won't have much to say.  They made a safe, off airport landing, nobody was injured and they can still fly the plane.  No harm, no foul.

Looking at the picture of them on the road, it appears to be a 172S model, so carb icing is out, because the R and S models are fuel injected.

I wonder how you log that landing....

[Al Sayre]

The article I saw didn't have a picture, I assumed it might be an older P model like the ones we have...

[SJFedor]

The first link at the top of the page from the Wassau Daily Herald has a great shot of the 172 sitting on the road w/ a police car in front of it.

[♠SARKID♠]

Haha, I read the thread title and thought you were talking about last years EAA incident in Fon Du Lac, WI.  Then I read my wing info report and realized what you were talking about.

Well, I guess I was half right.  The photo in the second article is from that incident...

I'm just glad they're safe.  I'm pretty sure I've met one or both of the pilots.

[NIN]

Remember, any landing you walk away from is a good one. If you can use the airplane again, thats a total bonus!

[nesagsar]

I'm sorry, I am a glider pilot. What is a landing? Is that like when you very gently crash your aircraft at a shallow angle so you can get out and help push?

[wingnut]

Why yes I am a Pilot and I believe you are referring to a situation "takes appropriate action for simulated emergencies

Simulated does not mean turning your engine off, 8 miles from an Airport, yes I am glad they are safe, but I have seen guys do much less in a CAP aircraft and get grounded for a year. It does not bode well in the Newspaper for PR to have a CAP aircraft landing on a Highway. We all learn from each others mistake, and this is or was a big one, and it will be regurgitated to us ad nauseum from national.

[Flying Pig]

I'm sorry, I am a glider pilot. What is a landing? Is that like when you very gently crash your aircraft at a shallow angle so you can get out and help push?

Now, I know your comment was for humor, but to expand.....

I always get a chuckle when pilots refer to landings as a controlled crash or something along those lines.  I mean the ones who are serious about the comment they just made.  You can tell a lot about a pilot by how they land.  There is NOTHING accidental about the ability to bring an aircraft to the ground and nail a pre designated spot, not to mention on a short or soft field or over an obstacle.  Especially in a glider where every landing is an emergency landing.  I know many pilots say they feel most involved in the aircraft at take off.  I dont.  To me, you are MOST involved when you are trying to bring that thing down and stop it.

[SJFedor]

Why yes I am a Pilot and I believe you are referring to a situation "takes appropriate action for simulated emergencies

Simulated does not mean turning your engine off, 8 miles from an Airport, yes I am glad they are safe, but I have seen guys do much less in a CAP aircraft and get grounded for a year. It does not bode well in the Newspaper for PR to have a CAP aircraft landing on a Highway. We all learn from each others mistake, and this is or was a big one, and it will be regurgitated to us ad nauseum from national.

Who said they shut the engine off? From everything I've heard, the power was reduced to flight idle, and when they went to add power, the engine didn't throttle up.

[mikeylikey]

Am I mistaken or did I read it took off from the highway as well??

If so, that is awesome!

[♠SARKID♠]

Am I mistaken or did I read it took off from the highway as well??

If so, that is awesome!

Yes.  Yes they did.   

[Flying Pig]

They should have put it on a flat bed then got out on the Interstate up to about 80 mph.  It would have just lifted off like a Harrier!  Oh, the possibilities are endless!

[TankerT]

Why yes I am a Pilot and I believe you are referring to a situation "takes appropriate action for simulated emergencies

Simulated does not mean turning your engine off, 8 miles from an Airport, yes I am glad they are safe, but I have seen guys do much less in a CAP aircraft and get grounded for a year. It does not bode well in the Newspaper for PR to have a CAP aircraft landing on a Highway. We all learn from each others mistake, and this is or was a big one, and it will be regurgitated to us ad nauseum from national.

Who said they shut the engine off? From everything I've heard, the power was reduced to flight idle, and when they went to add power, the engine didn't throttle up.

That is what happened.  The engine was not shut off during flight.  It only refused to add power from idle.

[ricecakecm]

I wonder how you log that landing....

I've had an off airport landing in my career due to the engine not coming back after practicing a power-off stall with a student about 5 years ago.  I just got out a sectional, figured out where I landed and noted the lat-long in my logbook.

[SJFedor]

I wonder how you log that landing....

I've had an off airport landing in my career due to the engine not coming back after practicing a power-off stall with a student about 5 years ago.  I just got out a sectional, figured out where I landed and noted the lat-long in my logbook.

I'd probably have to write it like "Departure Airport-address that the plane came to a stop in front of-arrival airport" 

[mynetdude]

I wonder how you log that landing....

I've had an off airport landing in my career due to the engine not coming back after practicing a power-off stall with a student about 5 years ago.  I just got out a sectional, figured out where I landed and noted the lat-long in my logbook.

I'd probably have to write it like "Departure Airport-address that the plane came to a stop in front of-arrival airport" 

I'm not a pilot, a chair pilot maybe!!! And I do a lot of flight simming, I feel the same way landings are more involving... you've got to make sure you're going to make that runway have enough speed and enough flaps for the conditions and so forth... takeoff doesn't seem as involving you set flaps, you get to takeoff speed and rotate and off you go and follow ATC instructions.

Landing, you've got to make sure you're on the glideslope, you have enough speed, you've got enough flaps, compensating for crosswind (if any) and once you touch down you've got to deal with rollout and stopping/slowing down to a safe speed to exit the runway.

And TBH I'd love to take off on a highway if I can watch cars race past me! (safely of course!)

[Flying Pig]

Im not thinking a highway is much different than some of the small small mountain strips Ive been into!

[CadetProgramGuy]

Just imagine this....


You are doing your simulated Engine out for a check-ride.  Somthing you have done many times before.

You go to advance the throttle, and suddenly it becomes real.....

That is Pucker Factor....That is when the training needs to become automatic.

Can you run your checklists by memory, and by feel?  I have been flying for 12 years, and I still struggle at 2000 ft AGL. 

These guys did it at 500 AGL with about 30 seconds to go.  Bravo Zulu!!

[CadetProgramGuy]

I wonder how you log that landing....

I've had an off airport landing in my career due to the engine not coming back after practicing a power-off stall with a student about 5 years ago.  I just got out a sectional, figured out where I landed and noted the lat-long in my logbook.

Highway 5, milemarker 113.

[mynetdude]

I wonder how you log that landing....

I've had an off airport landing in my career due to the engine not coming back after practicing a power-off stall with a student about 5 years ago.  I just got out a sectional, figured out where I landed and noted the lat-long in my logbook.

Highway 5, milemarker 113.

Highway 5 as in I-5? Hope that happens at 2am, there are a lot of cars on I-5 in the middle of the day, the picture seemed to depict midday when the plane landed on highway C.  Either that or Christmas day, I've seen freeways literally empty for miles on Christmas day too... so a perfect day to do a highway landing .

[CadetProgramGuy]

I wonder how you log that landing....

I've had an off airport landing in my career due to the engine not coming back after practicing a power-off stall with a student about 5 years ago.  I just got out a sectional, figured out where I landed and noted the lat-long in my logbook.

Highway 5, milemarker 113.

Highway 5 as in I-5? Hope that happens at 2am, there are a lot of cars on I-5 in the middle of the day, the picture seemed to depict midday when the plane landed on highway C.  Either that or Christmas day, I've seen freeways literally empty for miles on Christmas day too... so a perfect day to do a highway landing .

I meant it for a log book entry, not for actual location.  Sorry for the foul up.

[mynetdude]

I wonder how you log that landing....

I've had an off airport landing in my career due to the engine not coming back after practicing a power-off stall with a student about 5 years ago.  I just got out a sectional, figured out where I landed and noted the lat-long in my logbook.

Highway 5, milemarker 113.

Highway 5 as in I-5? Hope that happens at 2am, there are a lot of cars on I-5 in the middle of the day, the picture seemed to depict midday when the plane landed on highway C.  Either that or Christmas day, I've seen freeways literally empty for miles on Christmas day too... so a perfect day to do a highway landing .

I meant it for a log book entry, not for actual location.  Sorry for the foul up.

nah not really a foul up, a landing on highway 5 though would be cool/amazing (done safely of course!).

Does anybody recall 405 The Movie? http://www.405themovie.com/Home.asp WARNING: there is a small footage that uses inappropriate content, not suitable for all ages. (the old woman uses her middle finger at the driver of another vehicle in the movie).

I figured the ^ above is related to the topic, it isn't an "educational" movie as it was meant for humor.  So YMMV, so I am not sure how appropriate this is or not to this topic.

[badger bob]

So if they were able to start the plane right back up after the mechanic looked at it, what happenen then?  Why did the plane not respond to the throttle when they tried to recover after the emergency landing drill? 

Either way they will have some questions to answer to CAP and the FAA.  Was it a Form 5/F91?  Was the PIC with an instructor pilot? 

Looking at the picture of them on the road, it appears to be a 172S model, so carb icing is out, because the R and S models are fuel injected.

I wonder how you log that landing....

It was a form 5 and the PIC was a  instructor. Instructor did some instructing in the same plane for my daughters private pilot license as cadet, and I have done some mission flying with him. Well done Don.

The plane is a fuel-injected 172R.

[SAR-EMT1]

They should have put it on a flat bed then got out on the Interstate up to about 80 mph.  It would have just lifted off like a Harrier!  Oh, the possibilities are endless!

As a cop, how many laws...off the top of your head, would that break? ... the fines would be how much? Jail time? 

[mynetdude]

They should have put it on a flat bed then got out on the Interstate up to about 80 mph.  It would have just lifted off like a Harrier!  Oh, the possibilities are endless!

As a cop, how many laws...off the top of your head, would that break? ... the fines would be how much? Jail time? 

Well not only that, now that I think about it... you'd need a flatbed platform high enough above the semi's cab so you don't chew through the cab with your man-eating propeller in front of you . And I wonder how much road you'd have before a semi reaches 80mph to give the aircraft a decent takeoff speed from the flatbed and assuming you were clear of any power lines at that point.

The 182 would do it faster and shorter distance than a semi to get up to 80mph.

[Flying Pig]

They should have put it on a flat bed then got out on the Interstate up to about 80 mph.  It would have just lifted off like a Harrier!  Oh, the possibilities are endless!

As a cop, how many laws...off the top of your head, would that break? ... the fines would be how much? Jail time? 

I dont know.....I may have to research that one

[badger bob]

maybe able to get a dashcam video of from the squad car that was the chase car for the flyoff from the County Road

[♠SARKID♠]

maybe able to get a dashcam video of from the squad car that was the chase car for the flyoff from the County Road

God bless the dash cam.  They make some of the best videos of Wisconsin aerial mishaps ever.
From EAA last year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zHLcnXZNqc

[a2capt]

At least they had two lanes and asphalt.



This really made my day.

This was after the aircraft was repaired, $800 later- and on the departure, to go to a 'real' airport to get gas, the passenger and all the baggage.

[a2capt]

...this is the day before that image above. The afternoon when we had the engine out.

I remember that instructor well, in the Citabria. "Center of the runway! Thwap!" ..

She sat behind me, of course.

[mynetdude]

...this is the day before that image above. The afternoon when we had the engine out.

I remember that instructor well, in the Citabria. "Center of the runway! Thwap!" ..

She sat behind me, of course.

So... your instructor was in the back? I'm not sure I like that idea, if something goes wrong and I am not sure and my instructor is in the back? forget it... I won't even fly unless my instructor is in the right seat (that is if I could even fly, I can't now heh... )

Although I can convince any pilot in my squadron when they have time to take me up and I pay the fuel and aircraft use to my wing no problem .

[PHall]

...this is the day before that image above. The afternoon when we had the engine out.

I remember that instructor well, in the Citabria. "Center of the runway! Thwap!" ..

She sat behind me, of course.

So... your instructor was in the back? I'm not sure I like that idea, if something goes wrong and I am not sure and my instructor is in the back? forget it... I won't even fly unless my instructor is in the right seat (that is if I could even fly, I can't now heh... )

Although I can convince any pilot in my squadron when they have time to take me up and I pay the fuel and aircraft use to my wing no problem .

The airplane in the picture is NOT a Citabria, it's a Cessna 172.
The Citabria is a 2 seat, tail dragger. The second seat is behind the front seat.
Hence the dope slap from the back seat!

[SJFedor]

...this is the day before that image above. The afternoon when we had the engine out.

I remember that instructor well, in the Citabria. "Center of the runway! Thwap!" ..

She sat behind me, of course.

So... your instructor was in the back? I'm not sure I like that idea, if something goes wrong and I am not sure and my instructor is in the back? forget it... I won't even fly unless my instructor is in the right seat (that is if I could even fly, I can't now heh... )

Although I can convince any pilot in my squadron when they have time to take me up and I pay the fuel and aircraft use to my wing no problem .

You better be doing a 50/50 split, or that pilot better be commercial rated. Otherwise, that's a pretty big FAR violation. Even if he is a commercial pilot, it better be IAW FAR Part 119, which I'm not too sure it would be.

[cnitas]

The airplane in the picture is NOT a Citabria, it's a Cessna 172.
The Citabria is a 2 seat, tail dragger. The second seat is behind the front seat.
Hence the dope slap from the back seat

[a2capt]

...this is the day before that image above. The afternoon when we had the engine out.

I remember that instructor well, in the Citabria. "Center of the runway! Thwap!" ..

She sat behind me, of course.

vvvv Citabria vvvv


... infact, the very one I used for my cross country's and check ride.

[mynetdude]

I hope the instructor is comfortable with you being able to handle an inflight emergency in a plane that has tandem seats like that cuz if you were not sure or you "froze" well... good luck.  ^^^

[flyguy06]

From Wisconsin...2 CAP pilots practicing engine-out landing couldn't get it revved back up again and landed on a highway....

Great photo with the story: http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080311/WDH0101/303110039/1981

Also: http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/16561906.html

Title edit - MIKE

Are you a pilot?

You do realize that engineout landings dont mean you actually cut the engine off dont you? You bring the power backto Idle. It doesnt need to be be revved up because it is never revved down

[SarDragon]

Are you a pilot?

You do realize that engineout landings dont mean you actually cut the engine off dont you? You bring the power backto Idle. It doesnt need to be be revved up because it is never revved down

That made no sense.

They pulled power. Could not restore power. Landed on road.

[a2capt]

During engine out procedures  about every minute or so, more or less as time load permits I flick the throttle just a bit, inch or so- clear the engine- people have experienced when they apply that power again the thing just sputters and pukes.  Hence, the road landing. Not being there it's really hard to pass any judgement as to what happened. Perhaps the conditions were just right for carb ice.

Point is, you go to 'recover' your engine at 500 AGL and it pukes on you, sputters, spits or whatever it's doing, believe me, as I pilot I would rather at least maintain and fly forward but 500 ft is about a minute away from the ground. They landed.

We had similar issues with a 152 in our club, twice- interestingly, different pilot(s), same maneuvers, same time of year roughly and WX conditions in the same area away from the home field.

Both said "there's something wrong with it" and would not fly it back. A year apart.

Carb ice was the only real conclusion. But carb ice in August? Can't be! ;-)

There was nothing wrong with it. After having it checked out I went and got it, twice.

Oh, and FWIW- the Citabria, like nearly every production aircraft has two sets of controls, in this case due to the configuration that control set also includes power settings.

[RiverAux]

From Wisconsin...2 CAP pilots practicing engine-out landing couldn't get it revved back up again and landed on a highway....

Great photo with the story: http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080311/WDH0101/303110039/1981

Also: http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/16561906.html

Title edit - MIKE

Are you a pilot?

You do realize that engineout landings dont mean you actually cut the engine off dont you? You bring the power backto Idle. It doesnt need to be be revved up because it is never revved down

No, I'm not, but where did I say they turned the engine off?  "Revved up" obvioiusly isn't the technical term for what they were trying to do, but it does describe basically the procedure. 

[flyguy06]

From Wisconsin...2 CAP pilots practicing engine-out landing couldn't get it revved back up again and landed on a highway....

Great photo with the story: http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080311/WDH0101/303110039/1981

Also: http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/16561906.html

Title edit - MIKE

Are you a pilot?

You do realize that engineout landings dont mean you actually cut the engine off dont you? You bring the power backto Idle. It doesnt need to be be revved up because it is never revved down

No, I'm not, but where did I say they turned the engine off?  "Revved up" obvioiusly isn't the technical term for what they were trying to do, but it does describe basically the procedure. 

sorry dude, but when you say revved up, it implies that it was revved down. At least thats how I read it. Sorry for the confusion