Thoughts on building time

[Flying Pig]

My Examiner asked me during my Commercial check ride, "When you hit the 1000 hour mark, ask yourself honestly, do I have 1000 hours, or 1 hr. 1000 times."
I didn't think much of it at the time, but it has stuck with me.  Am I continually learning every time I fly, or is every hour just like the last one.  I just broke the 300 hr mark, so I am still learning every time I go, especially with my Mission Pilot qual just completed.  I am dying to get into a Mountain Course now.

[RogueLeader]

That's an interesting question. . . .
I do believe that there is always something new to learn, even in the repetitions of every day activities.
I get back to you.

[SJFedor]

Hmm...interesting philosophy. Makes you think...

My own personal belief is that, every time I'm in the aircraft, I should learn, or at least reinforce something that was learned, every time. Before I crank, I usually think about something I haven't done in a while.

Now that I've conquered the almightly GA-8, I'm too dying to get into an MFC. I believe we're planning to do one here in TN sometime this spring.

But without the sad results of the last one they did here  

[bosshawk]

Rob(and others): I happen to have been involved in the development of a Mountain Training Course here in CA and am one of the designated instructors.  At least in CA, all it takes to get into a Mt Flying Course is to persuade someone to be the project officer, set up a weekend, invite at least six Mission Pilots to come with corporate aircraft and contact the Wing Mt Flying Chief Instructor.  Our course takes about six hours to complete the ground portion and then two flights of about two hours each with one of the designated instructors.

For you flat landers, remember that here in CA we have some serious mountains: up to 14,000 ft(plus).  Unfortunately, very few folks in this part of the world put their favorite flying machines into the flat lands, so we do a lot of mt search.

I happen to share Flying Pigs philosophy: if I fail to learn something each time that I fly, I feel like I had a failing flight.  Since I am coming up on 49 years since I first soloed, you would think that I am smarter than I really am.

[flyguy06]

A good pilot is always learning. I always learn something new when I fly.

[JC004]

...
My own personal belief is that, every time I'm in the aircraft, I should learn, or at least reinforce something that was learned, every time. Before I crank, I usually think about something I haven't done in a while.
...

(he developed this habit by trying to think of new ways to scare me while I was in the aircraft)

[flyguy06]

I dont really like the phrase "timebuilding".  A lot of future airline pilots love to use this phrase. Timebuilding gives the impression that you are just flying to reac the houre requirement to get hired by a particular airline.

Flying is about buliding experience and developing your skill. I am trying to get to the airlines myself but whenever someone asks me "how much more time do you need?" My response is I need x hours amount of experience.

[scooter]

Time does not mean experience. Experience means experience. Every time I have done something I later thought was dumb, looking back at the incident, it was experience that stopped things from getting worse. 

[Frenchie]

Time does not mean experience. Experience means experience. Every time I have done something I later thought was dumb, looking back at the incident, it was experience that stopped things from getting worse. 

Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

[flyguy06]

Everytime you fly it is an experience. And I would hope we learn something everytime we fly. So, time does equal experience in the sense of flying.

[FW]

I still find it amazing that, in CAP, most of our fatal accidents involve very high time pilots.  It is so important to build on each experience.  Never forget what has happened before and like everyone else has already said;  never stop learning.
If you ever think you've done it all, just turn in your ticket.

[flyguy06]

I still find it amazing that, in CAP, most of our fatal accidents involve very high time pilots.  It is so important to build on each experience.  Never forget what has happened before and like everyone else has already said;  never stop learning.
If you ever think you've done it all, just turn in your ticket.

Thats the national average as well, if you look atthe FAA website. People start getting complacent. Age is another factor. I hate to say it, but we have a lot of paople flying inCAP that are over the age of 65 nd wheather you agree with me or not, that is a factor.

[Flying Pig]

I fly with a pilot who is cresting his 25,000 hour mark.  He has his CFI in helicopters and fixed wing and has been flying professionally for 40 years.  Every time I work with him, I see him looking in the POH, looking in the Rotorcraft Flying handbook.  When we fly, he is always very methodical.  He has had 9 helicopter engine failures in 40 years, and he's still here.  Most of those were back in the day when they were still flying the ol' M.A.S.H Bell 47.

[flyguy06]

There are always exceptions to everything LT. I never speak in absolutes. I flew with a 74 year old pilot lastmonth. I was giving him a checkout. he couldnt find a common landmark that we use in that area all the time. I put the thing right on his wingtip and he could not find it. Then I asked him to take us home and his situaltional awareness was off. Ilove this man like a Grand father and for that reason I could not check him out. I want him to be safe so he wont hurt himself or others.

[SJFedor]

There are always exceptions to everything LT. I never speak in absolutes. I flew with a 74 year old pilot lastmonth. I was giving him a checkout. he couldnt find a common landmark that we use in that area all the time. I put the thing right on his wingtip and he could not find it. Then I asked him to take us home and his situaltional awareness was off. Ilove this man like a Grand father and for that reason I could not check him out. I want him to be safe so he wont hurt himself or others.

That's a tough decision to make. A tough one, but the right one. Our CAP Check Pilots are really the last line of defense from yourself in CAP flight operations. The FRO's?  Not nearly as much.

[flyguy06]

Yep. this wasnt a CAP checkout though. I am not a check pilot yet. This was at a local flying club

[Frenchie]

Yep. this wasnt a CAP checkout though. I am not a check pilot yet. This was at a local flying club

I thought CAP was the local flying club.

[flyguy06]

No, check thisout. we have a navy flying club in our area. In order to join you have to be in the military, retired, spouse or CAP. So, what peopl edo is they join CAP just to get into the Navy flying club. I have members on our roster that have been in CAP since 1998 and hav eonly completeed Level 1. They fly at the navy club all the time but never come to a CAP meeting.
they dont want to fly in CAP because they say its too much red tape to go through.

[Flying Pig]

Ive run into those people.   I just completed my Mission Pilot status and havnt run into any red tape.  I have told a few prospective members that if they think we are just going to toss them the keys to the plane once their check clears, you got another thing comin'!

Considering that one takes it seriously and doesn't just go through the motions, as a Commercial rated pilot, Im proud to say getting through Scanner, Observer and Mission Pilot aint no joke.

[SJFedor]

No, check thisout. we have a navy flying club in our area. In order to join you have to be in the military, retired, spouse or CAP. So, what peopl edo is they join CAP just to get into the Navy flying club. I have members on our roster that have been in CAP since 1998 and hav eonly completeed Level 1. They fly at the navy club all the time but never come to a CAP meeting.
they dont want to fly in CAP because they say its too much red tape to go through.

I think we talked about this before. Where I used to live in PA, the local Navy flying club was similarly set up, but they had those problems before, too. So, in order to apply for membership, you had to be a rated CAP mission pilot, and continue to hold the MP qual, otherwise they could boot you.

Solved that problem.

[flyguy06]

No, check thisout. we have a navy flying club in our area. In order to join you have to be in the military, retired, spouse or CAP. So, what peopl edo is they join CAP just to get into the Navy flying club. I have members on our roster that have been in CAP since 1998 and hav eonly completeed Level 1. They fly at the navy club all the time but never come to a CAP meeting.
they dont want to fly in CAP because they say its too much red tape to go through.

I think we talked about this before. Where I used to live in PA, the local Navy flying club was similarly set up, but they had those problems before, too. So, in order to apply for membership, you had to be a rated CAP mission pilot, and continue to hold the MP qual, otherwise they could boot you.

Solved that problem.

Thats not a bad idea. But I have to say not really fair. What if you dont want to be a mission pilot? What if your interest is just givng O-rides? I amnot a missiojn pilot. I am an O-ride pilot. We have a member like that. he's an older gentleman, he has no interets in ES. He justy wants to fly the cadets.

I may agree with you have to be a Form 5 pilot for a year or something like that but then how would you enforce that? Its not inthe Navy regs nor is it in CAP regs. The Commander doesnt realize he can make his own standard of behavior. he thinks he is just supposed to interpret the regs

[mikeylikey]

No, check thisout. we have a navy flying club in our area. In order to join you have to be in the military, retired, spouse or CAP. So, what peopl edo is they join CAP just to get into the Navy flying club. I have members on our roster that have been in CAP since 1998 and hav eonly completeed Level 1. They fly at the navy club all the time but never come to a CAP meeting.
they dont want to fly in CAP because they say its too much red tape to go through.

I think we talked about this before. Where I used to live in PA, the local Navy flying club was similarly set up, but they had those problems before, too. So, in order to apply for membership, you had to be a rated CAP mission pilot, and continue to hold the MP qual, otherwise they could boot you.

Solved that problem.

That wouldn't be Willow Grove would it?  Or in Philly?

[SJFedor]

Thats not a bad idea. But I have to say not really fair. What if you dont want to be a mission pilot? What if your interest is just givng O-rides? I amnot a missiojn pilot. I am an O-ride pilot. We have a member like that. he's an older gentleman, he has no interets in ES. He justy wants to fly the cadets.

I may agree with you have to be a Form 5 pilot for a year or something like that but then how would you enforce that? Its not inthe Navy regs nor is it in CAP regs. The Commander doesnt realize he can make his own standard of behavior. he thinks he is just supposed to interpret the regs

They really did that to filter out those who were using CAP as a door to get into the club w/o really giving anything to CAP. It's been a while since I have talked to any of the members from up there, but when they opened it up to CAP, that was the bar that they set. They didn't want to be inundated with every 172 driver that CAP had. You do make a good point about how you can be a very giving and productive pilot in CAP w/o being F91 qualified, but, that's their perogative.

That wouldn't be Willow Grove would it?  Or in Philly?

Yup, NAS Willow Grove. Last time I had talked to anyone about that club was when I was still flying out of DYL with 907. Lt Col Friel, Capt Comly, and a few of the other MP's from that unit were members, and were telling me about the requirements to get in. Lt Col Friel promised me a ride in one of the T-34s, which I still need to collect.

[mikeylikey]

^ You Sir, need to get back to PA.  Pack up and move back, then collect your owed flights.   

[flyguy06]

Yes, I ALWAYS ask, why is there such an emphasis on ES . I mean just take a look at this board. On the Cadet Programs page someone asked what field activities would you do for cadets and everyone of the suggestions were Ground Team related. I mean those are funacitivities yes,. But they are not required. ES is not a requirement to be successful in CAP. Especially for cadets. A cadet can go through the entire cadet program and make their Sapaatz without even picking up a DF or getting GEN ES.

I dont mean to change the subjsct but it seems there is so much emphasis on ES. They give the impression that it is mandatory to have an ES sepcialty or participate in some form of it when it is not mandatory.

Again, dont get me wrong. I like ES to. Just yesterday I went to a SAREX and began training for AOBD. But please dont give the impression that ES is a mandatory actitivyt in CAP because it isnt

[Frenchie]

Yes, I ALWAYS ask, why is there such an emphasis on ES . I mean just take a look at this board. On the Cadet Programs page someone asked what field activities would you do for cadets and everyone of the suggestions were Ground Team related. I mean those are funacitivities yes,. But they are not required. ES is not a requirement to be successful in CAP. Especially for cadets. A cadet can go through the entire cadet program and make their Sapaatz without even picking up a DF or getting GEN ES.

I dont mean to change the subjsct but it seems there is so much emphasis on ES. They give the impression that it is mandatory to have an ES sepcialty or participate in some form of it when it is not mandatory.

Again, dont get me wrong. I like ES to. Just yesterday I went to a SAREX and began training for AOBD. But please dont give the impression that ES is a mandatory actitivyt in CAP because it isnt

You are correct in that ES isn't mandatory by any means.  I know of entire squadrons that have nothing to do with ES, whatsoever, and they are strong squadrons that do an excellent job.

I'm sure there are many squadrons out there who have excellent cadet programs which have nothing to do with ES, but what I've seen the most of are things like making paper airplanes and model rockets.  As far as fostering leadership skills, volunteerism, respect, and integrity in cadets, few things do all of these as well as getting them involved in ES.  Seeing as how the very foundation of CAP is based on ES, it's hard to go wrong making ES a central part of the squadron's activities.

[flyguy06]

Yes, I ALWAYS ask, why is there such an emphasis on ES . I mean just take a look at this board. On the Cadet Programs page someone asked what field activities would you do for cadets and everyone of the suggestions were Ground Team related. I mean those are funacitivities yes,. But they are not required. ES is not a requirement to be successful in CAP. Especially for cadets. A cadet can go through the entire cadet program and make their Sapaatz without even picking up a DF or getting GEN ES.

I dont mean to change the subjsct but it seems there is so much emphasis on ES. They give the impression that it is mandatory to have an ES sepcialty or participate in some form of it when it is not mandatory.

Again, dont get me wrong. I like ES to. Just yesterday I went to a SAREX and began training for AOBD. But please dont give the impression that ES is a mandatory actitivyt in CAP because it isnt

You are correct in that ES isn't mandatory by any means.  I know of entire squadrons that have nothing to do with ES, whatsoever, and they are strong squadrons that do an excellent job.

I'm sure there are many squadrons out there who have excellent cadet programs which have nothing to do with ES, but what I've seen the most of are things like making paper airplanes and model rockets.  As far as fostering leadership skills, volunteerism, respect, and integrity in cadets, few things do all of these as well as getting them involved in ES.  Seeing as how the very foundation of CAP is based on ES, it's hard to go wrong making ES a central part of the squadron's activities.

And thats where i disagree. I do not believe the very foundation of CAP is ES. I know when I was a cadet in the mid 80's the emphasis was the Air Force and getting youths into the Air Force Academy or AFROTC in collge. Yes, we did GT stufff but the main focus was a positive relationship withthe USAF. I guess thathas changed over the years.

You can teach and develop many leadsership skills without ES. ROTC does it everyday.

[Frenchie]

And thats where i disagree. I do not believe the very foundation of CAP is ES. I know when I was a cadet in the mid 80's the emphasis was the Air Force and getting youths into the Air Force Academy or AFROTC in collge. Yes, we did GT stufff but the main focus was a positive relationship withthe USAF. I guess thathas changed over the years.

You can teach and develop many leadsership skills without ES. ROTC does it everyday.

If you look at how CAP got it's start, I don't see how you can say the foundation isn't ES.  I think CAP was going for a good 20 years or so before cadets came into the picture, at least as we know them today.

As I said, you don't need ES to have a good cadet program.  It's just not a bad way to go.  It fosters all the things CAP is about while providing a sense of accomplishment.  USAF customs and courtesies certainly should be taught to all cadets extensively, but CAP is not ROTC, nor should it become ROTC.

[flyguy06]

And thats where i disagree. I do not believe the very foundation of CAP is ES. I know when I was a cadet in the mid 80's the emphasis was the Air Force and getting youths into the Air Force Academy or AFROTC in collge. Yes, we did GT stufff but the main focus was a positive relationship withthe USAF. I guess thathas changed over the years.

You can teach and develop many leadsership skills without ES. ROTC does it everyday.

If you look at how CAP got it's start, I don't see how you can say the foundation isn't ES.  I think CAP was going for a good 20 years or so before cadets came into the picture, at least as we know them today.

As I said, you don't need ES to have a good cadet program.  It's just not a bad way to go.  It fosters all the things CAP is about while providing a sense of accomplishment.  USAF customs and courtesies certainly should be taught to all cadets extensively, but CAP is not ROTC, nor should it become ROTC.

CAP started out to help the war effort in WWII. we are not in a war like that at this time, so to compare the two periods of time is not correct. The world today is nothing like it was in 194

[RiverAux]

CAP started the cadet program during WWII.  While it wasn't our founding mission, it was pretty close. 

[BillB]

The cadet program started in October 1942. It was primarily to develop "pre-military" training as a path to the Army Air Force. The cadet program up to 1950 was a harder program than the current one. Learning morse code, first air certification was a required part of the training. During WW II cadet rank only extended through NCO grades and the grade stripes were the same as the USAAF and senior members.

[flyguy06]

The way I understood it, the cadetprogram was designed to recruit future Senior members in CAP. So, it does go way back to the beginning. And it did have an aviation emphasis on it. thats all I am saying.