Modernizing the physical fitness program

Started by Eclipse, August 26, 2014, 05:35:12 AM

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Flying Pig

The CPFT is such an unbelievable minimum level of fitness at the entry levels that its not even funny.  When I was a Deputy Commander for cadets, we had so many other things to do, running the PFT was about the only physical activity we did.  The PFT is pretty basic.  With the resources available to most cadets in the US in schools, sports or other daily life, its really up to them to take physical fitness as an interest to at least pass the PFT... which is a pretty low level of fitness if you are meeting the minimums.  Nothing wrong with promoting physical fitness, once in a while having a class on nutrition.... but nothing you do in CAP is going to have the slightest impact on a kids fitness unless they take it and make it personal.  In many cases, watching their friends pass them up is the best motivation.  Thats how the world really works.  Better to learn it now in a safe, supporting environment than to learn it when your paycheck is on the line.  Ive seen plenty of kids go from not being able to jog 1 lap without walking and improve to jogging the entire mile and not making it in time, to actually running/jogging and making it in. 

If someone is running a unit where physical fitness is the main focus, then Id be curious what other aspects of the program aren't a part of the meeting.  Maybe some of you spend way more time at CAP with your cadets  than the 3hrs a week that I did.   I think a cadet program would be better suited by putting together a list of school sports specific to that cadets school or other activities outside of CAP and encourage cadets to get into that vs burning CAP time trying to get cadets into shape for a couple hours a month.  Yes... CAP ends up with some kids who are grossly out of shape........ CAP isnt equipped to do much more than attempt to provide positive reinforcement in the way of goals, promotions, awards and helping to steer that cadet to a lifestyle where they can get into shape.  Focusing on getting cadets to pass the PFT only takes away from the majority of the cadets who can. 

A ribbon for passing the PFT?  I think the rank on your collar and the ribbon for the achievement is probably enough to indicate you passed the PFT.  I don't think we need a ribbon to reward passing phases of an award that comes with a ribbon that coincides with your new rank.

Really nothing we do in CAP requires much more than a level of fitness beyond what it takes you to live in normal society.  The PFT isnt a measure of being able to do a job like the military, LE, Fire, EMS..... its a method of promoting a healthy lifestyle for their future. 

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

Fubar

Quote from: 68w10 on August 30, 2014, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: Fubar on August 30, 2014, 07:12:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 29, 2014, 09:25:34 PMNo CAP activity should have PT standards which exceed the grade-appropriate level for a respective cadet.

Well, they ignore a few different aspects of CPPT so ignoring other parts of our program isn't all that surprising.

Such as?

Well, PT as punishment for one.

SarDragon

Quote from: Fubar on August 31, 2014, 01:48:17 AM
Quote from: 68w10 on August 30, 2014, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: Fubar on August 30, 2014, 07:12:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 29, 2014, 09:25:34 PMNo CAP activity should have PT standards which exceed the grade-appropriate level for a respective cadet.

Well, they ignore a few different aspects of CPPT so ignoring other parts of our program isn't all that surprising.

Such as?

Well, PT as punishment for one.

PT as punishment has never been officially endorsed the entire time I've been involved in the CAP Cadet program. The fact that it has been condoned, and even encouraged, by misguided leadership in various units and activities is one of the reasons the current CPPT reg is so specific.

If you see it, report it. it's that simple. Documentation helps. The more effort put in to discourage this unsat behavior, the quicker it will go away.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

lordmonar

Never been to PJOC....but I sent one of my cadets there.....and they do use PT as punishment there......again it is the nature of the NCSA.  What I understand is that they have a waiver from NHQ for it.   It is closely monitored and conducted by PJ instructors.

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: lordmonar on August 31, 2014, 02:38:18 AM
Never been to PJOC....but I sent one of my cadets there.....and they do use PT as punishment there......again it is the nature of the NCSA.  What I understand is that they have a waiver from NHQ for it.   It is closely monitored and conducted by PJ instructors.


I gotta agree on this one. You want a "slice of life" as a PJ? I bet "punishment" PT for the whole is part of the deal. When I was doing the Future Soldier DEP program, the recruiters would PT us, but then if someone screwed up, everyone would get dropped. Even if it was just the pushup "up" position...everyone was doing it. On CAP meeting nights, they knew I had to leave earlier, so the recruiter said I could get up and go. I stayed down without saying anything. He repeated that I can go, but I told him "no, Sergeant". He got what I was doing, and turned it into a lesson for the rest on teamwork. I still had to stay down with the rest of the guys for an extra five minutes though, and it sucked.

68w20

Quote from: Fubar on August 31, 2014, 01:48:17 AM
Quote from: 68w10 on August 30, 2014, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: Fubar on August 30, 2014, 07:12:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 29, 2014, 09:25:34 PMNo CAP activity should have PT standards which exceed the grade-appropriate level for a respective cadet.

Well, they ignore a few different aspects of CPPT so ignoring other parts of our program isn't all that surprising.

Such as?

Well, PT as punishment for one.

Some background: I've staffed APJOC, but not the basic course.  That being said, the CAP and USAF instructors that I spoke with who had staffed the basic course disagree with you.  PT sessions during the basic course are scheduled events.  They're frequent and intense, but they are a planned portion of the course with a specific purpose.

Hypothetically, were PT as a punishment allowed by CAP (I do not condone this, just making a statement), I think that this would be one of the scenarios in which it would be acceptable. There's an enormous difference between a 15 year old Cadet flying off the handle and making their Cadets do push ups and a USAF Pararescueman using the same exercise to reinforce a lesson.

A.Member

Quote from: Fubar on August 31, 2014, 01:48:17 AM
Quote from: 68w10 on August 30, 2014, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: Fubar on August 30, 2014, 07:12:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 29, 2014, 09:25:34 PMNo CAP activity should have PT standards which exceed the grade-appropriate level for a respective cadet.

Well, they ignore a few different aspects of CPPT so ignoring other parts of our program isn't all that surprising.

Such as?

Well, PT as punishment for one.
Really, when were you there?

A lot of speculation from those that have never been there.  "I heard..." 

Concur with 68w10.  I assure you CPPT is taken very seriously and followed.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

stillamarine

I don't understand all the hate towards incentive pt. Maybe it wasn't allowed but I recall doing push ups when I messed up at encampment though that was 25 years ago. I recall doing push-ups in jrotc in HS. I recall young marines doing IPT. If done properly it is a good learning tool. Of course I understand that it can be abused but that's where accountability and training comes in. I guess I'm the only one who thinks that way. And no I don't make cadets do push ups now. But I do make my Explorers. 
Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com

lordmonar

The key to your point was "if done properly".....and unfortunately CAP has proven unable to make sure that our leaders understand where that line is and how to enforce it.   So the NHQ CP team decided, and I agree with them, to draw the line at "don't do it".

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

MajorM

I used to supervise drill sergeants at a school for at-risk youth where we used incentive PT.  Even with paid staff who were trained we had a hard time with some to ensure they knew the line, what was appropriate, and that there needed to be a point.  I can't imagine trying to get CAP personnel aligned on the same page.  Especially since done incorrectly, there can be very real consequences.