Modernizing the physical fitness program

[Eclipse]

Where do the cadets with "q" Physical Fitness come from?   Well from the squadrons of course.

?

So now we have squadrons training cadets in excess of the CPFT standards?
Where do you send the summons when someone gets hurt?

[lordmonar]

Where do the cadets with "q" Physical Fitness come from?   Well from the squadrons of course.

?

So now we have squadrons training cadets in excess of the CPFT standards?
Where do you send the summons when someone gets hurt?

LOL.  Try again.....Here is the PJOC PFE

[Eclipse]

Try what again?  Does it exceed the expectations for some cadets in the current CPFT or not?

[lordmonar]

Try what again?  Does it exceed the expectations for some cadets in the current CPFT or not?

Completely different standards.

Push ups are different, sit ups are different, pull up are not part of the CPFT.

PJOC is harder then everyday CAP life.....so they got different standards.

[Garibaldi]

Where do the cadets with "q" Physical Fitness come from?   Well from the squadrons of course.

?

So now we have squadrons training cadets in excess of the CPFT standards?
Where do you send the summons when someone gets hurt?

Generally, and you should know this, if a cadet wants to go to a physically demanding activity, they should know either by their own research or word-of-mouth that they should start prepping well before the activity, especially if the requirements are outlined. And they are. Of course, there are some cadoinks that don't think anything of it and show up completely unprepared and die. No squadron is going to supplant the CPFT to an NCSA standard. That's just not a-gonna happen. Parents will revolt, cadets will leave, and we'll be stuck with an unholy mess.

It's just causing me to shake my head at all the CPFT requirements, and how we are going to enforce/change them given our current number of contact hours per monthly PT session. It's up to the cadets, just like testing and drilling, to get up to par. And they either will, or they won't. Those that want to promote will kick themselves in the butt to make the promotions, and those who want to coast, won't. I have a brand new cadet who is working his butt off trying to pass his PT for his first stripe, and I have a few 0 and 1 stripers who are on the verge of getting a really serious talking to pretty soon. There are athletes, and there are bookworms. There are a few with known and documented medical issues, and some who just play sick when it suits them. It's a real mixed bag.

My professional opinions is this: Those who want to move up and move on, will, and will do whatever is necessary to progress. Those who won't will be given a choice to either promote or leave.

[A.Member]

Catrulz,

What would you do with the cadet who wants to go to a physically demanding NCSA like PJOC who can't pass the PT test?

PJOC has it's own standards.....can't pass it....can't go.

No CAP activity should have PT standards which exceed the grade-appropriate level for a respective cadet.

Strong non-concur.   

PJOC is a USAF career field orientation course.   The career field requires the highest level of fitness and far surpasses the requirements for the rest of the regular military; indoc is one of the most physically and mentally challenging training among all services.  It would be inappropriate for standards for an orientation course NOT to be higher or reflective of that elevated requirement.

BTW, PJOC is one of the most popular and selective NCSAs...and it is so for the reasons mentioned above.

[A.Member]

...Of course, there are some cadoinks that don't think anything of it and show up completely unprepared and die....

No, show up unprepared and they are sent home at their own expense.  Happens every year.

They must pass the PJOC PT test upon arrival before heading to the field to help ensure they are capable of keeping up.

[Eclipse]

The course is a career field orientation course.

Thank you for making my point.

[A.Member]

The course is a career field orientation course.

Thank you for making my point.

You haven't made any points here.

[A.Member]

Where do the cadets with "q" Physical Fitness come from?   Well from the squadrons of course.

?

So now we have squadrons training cadets in excess of the CPFT standards?
Where do you send the summons when someone gets hurt?

I sure hope we don't train to standards.  I hope we train to meet and exceed standards. 

How can Excellence be part of our Core Values with anything less?

[Eclipse]

I sure hope we don't train to standards.  I hope we train to meet and exceed standards. 

How can Excellence be part of our Core Values with anything less?

You can't, and yet, there you go...

PJOC is what it is, my original point was that CAP units are not preparing cadets, by a long shot for participation, and
certainly won't be if the CPFT is changed as the proposal indicates.

[Garibaldi]

I sure hope we don't train to standards.  I hope we train to meet and exceed standards. 

How can Excellence be part of our Core Values with anything less?

You can't, and yet, there you go...

PJOC is what it is, my original point was that CAP units are not preparing cadets, by a long shot for participation, and
certainly won't be if the CPFT is changed as the proposal indicates.

CAP shouldn't prepare cadets for PJOC. That is on their own dime. Not a part of their normal progression.

[SarDragon]

Bob, I think you're way off base here. I just looked at the PJOC test, and compared it to CAPP 52-18. I used the minimum age for PJOC (15) as a baseline.

2014 PJOC PHYSICAL FITNESS EVALUATION requirements:
http://ncsas.com/file.cfm/media/careerfairs/documents/02152014_PJOC_PFE_D45D305D12F7D.pdf

CAPP 52-18:
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/P052_018_501C183A14D19.pdf

The PJOC run is easier than any 15 yo or older passing requirement in 52-18. The pushups and situps are comparable to 15 yo Mitchell requirements. Pullups aren't part of the 52-18, but PJOC is upper body intensive, so I think it's a reasonable requirement.

The physical part is supposed to be hard. Being a PJ in the AD AF isn't for everyone. Our NCSA is a look at the career field, and how demanding it is. There's some partial immersion here. Only the strong survive.

FWIW, I could pass 3/4 of the test as a 40 yo. Couldn't do that many pushups.

[Eclipse]

Fair enough.  >I< didn't look, I asked "is it comparable" and it seems to be.   Several other people commented,
apparently, based on assumptions.

[A.Member]

FWIW, the standards cited above are new and different from the previous standards:
http://www.ncsas.com/file.cfm/media/careerfairs/documents/PJOC_PT_Requirements_7B77B39C6CC8B.pdf

APJOC also includes a swim qual.

[Fubar]

No CAP activity should have PT standards which exceed the grade-appropriate level for a respective cadet.

Well, they ignore a few different aspects of CPPT so ignoring other parts of our program isn't all that surprising.

[SarDragon]

FWIW, the standards cited above are new and different from the previous standards:
http://www.ncsas.com/file.cfm/media/careerfairs/documents/PJOC_PT_Requirements_7B77B39C6CC8B.pdf

APJOC also includes a swim qual.

That's the first one I found, and it's not really all that different. The biggest individual differences are the run, the pullups, and no flutter kicks. The other big change is doing away with the point system.

[68w20]

No CAP activity should have PT standards which exceed the grade-appropriate level for a respective cadet.

Well, they ignore a few different aspects of CPPT so ignoring other parts of our program isn't all that surprising.

Such as?

[A.Member]

FWIW, the standards cited above are new and different from the previous standards:
http://www.ncsas.com/file.cfm/media/careerfairs/documents/PJOC_PT_Requirements_7B77B39C6CC8B.pdf

APJOC also includes a swim qual.

That's the first one I found, and it's not really all that different. The biggest individual differences are the run, the pullups, and no flutter kicks. The other big change is doing away with the point system.

Agreed.  Just pointing out that it did change.

[A.Member]

No CAP activity should have PT standards which exceed the grade-appropriate level for a respective cadet.

Well, they ignore a few different aspects of CPPT so ignoring other parts of our program isn't all that surprising.

Such as?

Yeah, explain.