CAP JAG?

[Maj Ballard]

I just discovered an individual on LinkedIn who is presenting himself as the "[blank blank]Wing Judge Advocate" in CAP. This struck me as a bit odd as, to my knowledge, we have no Judge Advocate General's Corps in Civil Air Patrol. Is it not enough to just be the Wing Legal Officer? Am I reading too much into this?

[lordmonar]

We have wing legal officers...which could be called JAGs I guess.

[MIKE]

Using JA as the functional address symbol too IIRC.

[Maj Ballard]

I dunno... I just always associate Judge Advocates with the actual real military. Just seems a little pretentious and wannabe to me. 

*shrug* YMMV.

[RiverAux]

I think at the recent NEC they approved some sort of generic name describing all lawyers in CAP.  I don't quite remember what it was...

[Pylon]

I think at the recent NEC they approved some sort of generic name describing all lawyers in CAP.  I don't quite remember what it was...

Yeah I was looking for minutes or some document to the same effect... I remember some actions related to lawyers in CAP, terminology and structure, etc.   Hmm...

[DNall]

I dunno... I just always associate Judge Advocates with the actual real military. Just seems a little pretentious and wannabe to me. 

*shrug* YMMV.

You mean like Capt, Maj, unit/CC, etc... we are formulated on the military model using standardized office symbols, in part so the military we deal with can recognize and understand what the hell we're talking about. This is a paramilitary organization, not the boy scouts.

[Maj Ballard]

I dunno. Like I said, just struck me as odd. I don't see what's wrong with "Legal Officer."

[lordmonar]

I dunno. Like I said, just struck me as odd. I don't see what's wrong with "Legal Officer."

Nothing wrong with JAG either.

[afgeo4]

There is something wrong with "JAG".

We don't have a Judge Advocate General in CAP and we don't have a JAG Corps in CAP.

Just because you're a legal officer, doesn't mean you're JAG. That's a specific term that applies to members of the Judge Advocate General Corps of the US Military. They are specifically military lawyers.

It's about as valid as a CAP medical officer calling himself the CAP Surgeon General.

[winterg]

A quick search turned this up: http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/capusaf/jag.asp

[afgeo4]

A quick search turned this up: http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/capusaf/jag.asp

Except that CAP-USAF is Air Force, so naturally, they have JAG officers.

[lordmonar]

There is something wrong with "JAG".

We don't have a Judge Advocate General in CAP and we don't have a JAG Corps in CAP.

Just because you're a legal officer, doesn't mean you're JAG. That's a specific term that applies to members of the Judge Advocate General Corps of the US Military. They are specifically military lawyers.

It's about as valid as a CAP medical officer calling himself the CAP Surgeon General.

Seems like we got one now.

[DNall]

The office symbol is "XXXX/JA," not JAG

Individual attorneys in the military are Judge Advocates (JAs), not JAGs. There is only one JAG in each service - THE Jundge Advocate General, who is a general.

Legal officer is a term from the business world - corporate board of directors - which is inappropriate for CAP because that person is not THE legal officer on the CAP, inc Board of Directors. That would be the legal adviser to the BoG, or I guess the national legal officer could be known as that specifically in their advisory to the NB/NEC role, but not in their daily duties. Legal Officer also would not specify membership in CAP.

It is appropriate for CAP to use JA for a couple reasons: First, it specifies they are in fact a member/officer; that they are in a staff position or otherwise actively acting as an authorized legal adviser/advocate for CAP; and, it is something the AF &/or other branches we interact with (National Guard for instance) actually understand.

[FlexCoder]

It would be a nice if CAP upgraded to a JAG type of a system.   However, the National Appeals Board was a good addition though.   Wing Legal Officers are not enough and many are biased towards their Wing.   

In addition to the Cadet Protection for a new new member, it would be ideal to have an overview of how CAP IG system works, some case studies & what procedures a member should take.   From the start, it would prevent a lot of petty circumstances from going overboard and the member more accountable for his or her actions.  Dream on....

[DNall]

A Judge Advocate is NOT the same thing as an IG. They are not supposed to be. It's completely 100% different systems with completely different purposes that in no way over lap.

[Flying Pig]

Update to a JAG system?   You were never in the military were you? 

[Maj Ballard]

Here is the recent 28 Aug ICL regarding Legal Officers in CAP. (It still uses that language - not JA.)

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/2008_08_28_Legal_Officer_Reporting_Indemnity.pdf

Notice "Judge Advocate" is nowhere in the list of example alternate titles for the position. (I realize that examples, by definition, are not exhaustive.) Apparently NHQ doesn't think "Legal Officer" is inappropriate for the Wing and other unit levels of CAP.

[DNall]

NHQ is rarely on the same page with the real world in general or AF in particular. I'm not saying this guy is right to use JA. 20-1 I believe it is specifies office symbols & titles. That's what he should be using. That said, it's not the right policy and should be changed.

[FlexCoder]

Mr. Pig,

Why would we want to copy the 'Army'!  I thought JAG was a TV Show.