Use of Cadets on Late Night Missions

[A.Member]

Do any squadrons/wings have policies on the use of cadets for late night/early morning missions?

Obviously, I'm assuming that the cadets are ground team qualified. 

Ex. squadron is notified of an ELT at 0100.  Squadron activiates it's call-down tree.  Do you contact (or even include) cadets in the call-down tree?   

[Major Carrales]

Do any squadrons/wings have policies on the use of cadets for late night/early morning missions?

Obviously, I'm assuming that the cadets are ground team qualified. 

Ex. squadron is notified of an ELT at 0100.  Squadron activiates it's call-down tree.  Do you contact (or even include) cadets in the call-down tree?   

I would not call them until morning or what is deemed a reasonable hour citing many cerfew laws and general safety of minors practices.  Even a mission that started at 1700 hrs that is running long I would have them call and then take them home.  The will of the parent will always have to trump CAP on those occasions.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Do they have school the next day?  Or is it summer?

That makes a difference to me.

[♠SARKID♠]

Depends on their school situation and parental permission.  I'm a cadet, but I'm 19 and long out of school so I'm free round the clock.  But a 14 year old may not have the same availability.

[RiverAux]

Never heard of anything formal, but generally we avoid using cadets on weeknights during the school year, unless it happens to be a very nearby ELT signal and then we might consider it.

[Fireball]

It has always been my general policy that Cadets didn't go out on school nights, including my own children when they were Cadets. There have been some exceptions. I had two high speed cadets that were home schooled and their parents gave permission that they could be called during the week. Then there was the time we had a site surveillance tasking for three days, I let the cadets man the site (under my supervision) after school until 2100 every day. Of course during the summer I have called Cadets out at all hours (with parental consent before hand).

[Major Carrales]

Again, I think cadets should be used...we train them and they go seem to take an "element of worth" out of doing something meaningful.  That has been the biggest motivator of cadets in our unit.  They use ES as a sort of extracurricular activity.  All that being said, if mom and dad say NO...that must be where it ends.

[sarmed1]

I am not sure how CAP fits into the scheme of things, but if you look at Federal Labor standards they limit the times of the day that a minor can work, even though not "paid" minors at my fire department are held to the same standards.
14-15 cant perform duty after 7pm on school days, 10pm on non school days
16-17 10pm on school days and midnight on non school days....

mk

[IceNine]

I think someone (UK?) posted a letter to parents and an availability sheet for cadet use on missions.  I plagarized the fecal matter out of that thing.

And when any of my cadets came to me with a GES Certificate I told them to have mom and/or dad fill out that sheet and return it to me.

Basically covered all of this.  During school, and during the week what times are they available? During School on weekends? Out of school weekdays, and weekends?

It worked really well and it gave me the added benefit of not having parents chew on my 4th point of contact because I called too late.  The letter was especially beneficial for preventing this, that and when they started to chew I showed them where they agreed to having me call at those times, by their signature.  End of story.

I couldn't find it via search, Anyone know where it is?

[Flying Pig]

I am not sure how CAP fits into the scheme of things, but if you look at Federal Labor standards they limit the times of the day that a minor can work, even though not "paid" minors at my fire department are held to the same standards.
14-15 cant perform duty after 7pm on school days, 10pm on non school days
16-17 10pm on school days and midnight on non school days....

mk

That doesnt apply since its not actual employment.  I would use the idea that if its summer time or the weekend, call them and leave it up to mom and dad.  If its a school night, leave them out of it.  We dont want to be the cause of junior failing a test on account of an ELT mission.

[NJMEDIC]

Watch out for child labors laws, which in my state pertain to volunteer organization.  State Police who have charge of missing persons require that personel be over the age of 18

[IceNine]

Thats the other point I forgot to mention, just before I went to group I started working with parents to get a report along with the school reports.

If junior was going ok in school they got to participate, if they started dropping grades or got below a C we started restricting outside stuff with CAP

It seemed to work as a motivator to help the kids keep their grades up as well as kept us from contributing

[A.Member]

Thanks for the replies.   This is something I wrestle with and it sounds like we, as an organization, kind of wrestle with it as well.   We've decided, as a squadron, that school night or not, we will not contact any cadet under age 18 for missions between 22:00 and 06:00.  Two factors, both of which were mentioned by others earlier, went into this decision:

1.  Curfew laws
2.  Disrupting parents/families of minors in the middle of night

There are certainly valid arguments to the various approaches on this issue and that's why I was curious to see how others addressed it.  I'd really like to see a consistent approach driven from NHQ on this though...or at least within the Wing.

[Pumbaa]

Curfew laws have exemptions for going to and from work/ school/ event, etc...  Also accompanied by someone over 21 is generally acceptable to (parent approved guardian)

Some states have volunteer/ emergency exemptions for school attendance. In my area of NY there are many students on the volunteer fire squad, they can be excused from school for a call-out.

Personally, if the parent gives an OK, then I say why not.  This is real life.  Something that cadets need to learn.

Again if the parents say OK in advance, and the cadets says OK to late/early callouts why not.  If it does effect school/ grades then as soon as it is reported then it ceases.  just like sports, etc.

These kids are out late many times on school sponsored events such as sports.  So why not CAP?

[LittleIronPilot]

Thanks for the replies.   This is something I wrestle with and it sounds like we, as an organization, kind of wrestle with it as well.   We've decided, as a squadron, that school night or not, we will not contact any cadet under age 18 for missions between 22:00 and 06:00.  Two factors, both of which were mentioned by others earlier, went into this decision:

1.  Curfew laws
2.  Disrupting parents/families of minors in the middle of night

There are certainly valid arguments to the various approaches on this issue and that's why I was curious to see how others addressed it.  I'd really like to see a consistent approach driven from NHQ on this though...or at least within the Wing.

I think that is a valid way to run it. Though I am even earlier, say 2000 hrs. Sorry but when an ELT, or actual aircraft down, alert goes off I have a mission to accomplish. Having cadets "feel good" or get motivated by mission participation is very secondary to getting a team together and prosecuting the mission.

[cnitas]

We use a system where we have a 'First Response Team'.
Anyone on the FRT, has already agreed, or have had their parents agree that they can be called at any time. 

If there is an issue with 2 am callouts, then they simply do not get the first call.

[A.Member]

We use a system where we have a 'First Response Team'.
Anyone on the FRT...

FRT?  Really?!   Do you pronounce that as "fart"?   

Sorry, couldn't resist (but I'd be voting for a name change! ). 

[cnitas]

Ha! 
No, we do not call it the 'F.R.T.', we call it the 'First
Response Team'.  I was using that as a shortcut to keep from writing it out over again.

But after a few days in the field, its not too far off 

[jimmydeanno]

My first mission was as a cadet and I was called out at about 2000 on a Monday.  We drove 2 hours to the general location, searched for another 2, found the ELT, waited another hour for the owner to show up, and drove home another 2 hours.  Total 7 hours = 0300 return home.  Back up for school at 0530.

I graduated with over a 4.0.  Had it been everyday - yeah, it might have been a problem.  But one or two a year - no biggie.  We don't do this full time.

My take though is to only call those cadets who have permission from their parents AND are performing well in school.  Some parents don't care what their kid does (therefore get permission) and they often times are the ones that are failing a few classes.  That doesn't work for me.

Keep up your game and you can play.  Otherwise, you're on the bench.

[NavLT]

A great question to work out in advance with your alert roster.  When I was a cadet (ouch it hurts to say that) my squadron had a form letter for parents with check boxes about availiblity.

I have used cadets on night searches but on the same criteria as Cadets in ES string, they have to be the right kind of serious cadet.  I would think that any cadet that seriously wanted to do missions would be pushing the parents to approve before you have to ask.

V/R
LT J.