McGuire AFB Air Show

[LtCol White]

For a multi-Wing event like this they should have followed the CAP standard for headgear in order to present a uniform appearance to the public. 

Now as to the planning that should go into a 1-2000 CAP member event with what I suppose were dozens and dozens of different units, I have a hard time imagining the amount of planning that would have to be done in order to pull it off. correctly.

Well there is the point. If you don't have the time to spend planning an event of this size, then the event is too large to have and should be scaled back to meet your abilities. Its very simple.

[CASH172]

I agree that there should've been a limit as to how many could attend, but what I don't understand is how so many units agreed to come.  Did someone promise your cadets candy if you would go, cause I can't believe that so many people even bothered to come. 

[acarlson]

By the way, any opinions on the blatant disregard for regulations and instructions by the members of the Pennsylvania Wing when it comes to uniform headgear? They all showed up in unit distinctive orange baseball caps when NJ Wing does not authorized them (expressly stated in the regs that only the unit cc can authorize them for their unit wear) and in the activity sign up, the wear of unit distinctive headgear was expressly prohibited. Only the BDU cap was authorized.

I can only comment on the members attending from our squadron... 

Keeping in the spirit of unity for all of CAP, for this multi-wing event... and at the request of the NJWG organizers of this event,  all our members purchased and wore the BDU cover...  proudly.


Capt. Lurye, I apologize for my comment to you.  It was unprofessional, and certainly uncalled for. 
It was not my intent to start "Wing-Wars"  ... If NYWG puts out the call, I will answer and bring my BDU cover.

[Pumbaa]

Funny..

....all roads lead to uniform discussion!

[LtCol White]

Funny..

....all roads lead to uniform discussion!

Because its one of our main sources of problems

[CASH172]

Considering all of the issues that came up during the weekend, I think uniforms were the least of anyone's problems.

Now trying to get everyone in the same uniform and presenting a uniform image would've been hard because of the multiple agencies involved.  Some reason, sea cadets were banned from wearing BDUs.  I don't know who made that decision but sea cadets were forced to wear their two piece work uniform(I don't know the offical name). 

[stillamarine]

Not for nothing....

But did anyone think of using an Incident Command System type structure for this event?  ICS is usuable for just about anything nowadays, not just disasters and ES. Just a thought.

[Sgt. Savage]

I agree that there should've been a limit as to how many could attend, but what I don't understand is how so many units agreed to come.  Did someone promise your cadets candy if you would go, cause I can't believe that so many people even bothered to come. 

As I heard from our cadets, they were told that they would get to meet the pilots from the thunderbirds; that's why they went.

[acarlson]

I agree that there should've been a limit as to how many could attend, but what I don't understand is how so many units agreed to come.  Did someone promise your cadets candy if you would go, cause I can't believe that so many people even bothered to come. 

As I heard from our cadets, they were told that they would get to meet the pilots from the thunderbirds; that's why they went.

Here's the recruiting info page:
http://www.njwg.cap.gov/airshow/index.html

[Pumbaa]

Seems like it was oversold.

All meals free too... hmmm didn't I read it was one slice of pizza?

Basically what we have here is poor project planning from the getgo.  WHat a shame.

You don't just invite bodies and not have a plan to support them.  I'm just glad that we pulled our squadron before we walked into this particluar minefield. My cadets are breathing a sigh of relief.

It might have been a success in the eyes of the AF, but as a whole this was one mitigated failure based on what was written here..

[afgeo4]

The real reason why all these people showed up was a promise of money. The scheme was to have all these cadets working concession stands, the profits from which were to be divided and distributed according to how many people showed up from each unit. The units would get to keep these funds.

I understood it to be the case were CAP was going to run ALL concession stands at the show. Not so. We only ran two, part-time. The amount of money raised was something like $1200. Half went to us. Divide that among the people and everyone got probably just under $.50 or so per person. Worth it? Dunno. How much is an experience of spending a gorgeous weekend out on the ramp of McGuire watching the thunderbirds worth to ya?

[Pumbaa]

Very interesting point indeed. 

Yes in looking back in hind sight, I would agree that this was a factor in thinking about sending our squadron.  Being in the middle of nowhere, and being low on finances, this sounded rather attractive for sure.  Ultimately though, sounder thinking prevailed for us.

But this comment reveals a lot more about the financial state of many (if not nearly all) squadrons.  Perahaps, a discussion on raising squadron funds, 'properly' throughout the year, would be a good topic to have here.

The real reason why all these people showed up was a promise of money.

[rebowman]

I dont have a prob with orange hats or any other color but I do think that all members should also have the standard BDU hat for uniformity sake when you have to be in a formation with other squadrons or wings. For example, a region encampment. To have mixed headgear in a formation looks crappy. Aside from certain activities, I think various headgear is fine but everyone should also have the standard for wear when appropriate even if they are authorized by NHQ to do something else individually.

In the USAF organizational hats are ONLY allowed while in your home unit/ state.  USAF regs specifically prohibit the wear of unit/ organizational hats at other times.  Shouldn't CAP regs be the same/ similiar?

[rebowman]

The real reason why all these people showed up was a promise of money. The scheme was to have all these cadets working concession stands, the profits from which were to be divided and distributed according to how many people showed up from each unit. The units would get to keep these funds.

I understood it to be the case were CAP was going to run ALL concession stands at the show. Not so. We only ran two, part-time. The amount of money raised was something like $1200. Half went to us. Divide that among the people and everyone got probably just under $.50 or so per person. Worth it? Dunno. How much is an experience of spending a gorgeous weekend out on the ramp of McGuire watching the thunderbirds worth to ya?

Thats wierd... I was assigned to work the concession stand area and I only remember CAP being assigned to 1 stand.  And, we were there 0900-1800 on both Saturday and Sunday.

[rebowman]

Page 62 of the CAPM 39-1 states:

"Only AF-style or Army-style BDU cap will be worn."

[jimmydeanno]

Page 62 of the CAPM 39-1 states:

"Only AF-style or Army-style BDU cap will be worn."

And page 41 says this:

4. CAP Baseball Cap: May be worn with the utility uniforms if authorized by the unit commander. The color, material, unit designation, or silk screen organizational emblem or badge will be prescribed by the unit commander. Emblem or badge, if authorized, will be centered 1/2 inch above visor.

The statement you posted just means we can't wear any other style of the BDU cap other than the AF and Army style...no Marine 5 Point covers...

[LtCol White]

Page 62 of the CAPM 39-1 states:

"Only AF-style or Army-style BDU cap will be worn."

And page 41 says this:

4. CAP Baseball Cap: May be worn with the utility uniforms if authorized by the unit commander. The color, material, unit designation, or silk screen organizational emblem or badge will be prescribed by the unit commander. Emblem or badge, if authorized, will be centered 1/2 inch above visor.

The statement you posted just means we can't wear any other style of the BDU cap other than the AF and Army style...no Marine 5 Point covers...

Thats because the Marine BDU hat has never been authorized

[jimmydeanno]

I understand that, I was clarifying that the quote from the reg states what style of BDU cover may be worn rather than exempting the wear of a unit hat.

[SarDragon]

BTW [off topic], USMC covers have 8 points, not 5.
[/off topic]

[JC004]

BTW [off topic], USMC covers have 8 points, not 5.
[/off topic]

Well...that's more than half-way there...