Like father, like son

[Stonewall]

The drill instructors are MTIs - Military Training Instructors - or TIs for short. They wear the blue Smokey bear or bush hat.

Tech school 'babysitters'    used to be called STAs - Student Training Advisors - and wear the infantry blue deodorant string. They're now known as MTLs - Military Training Leaders. At the Air Force Academy they are known as AMTs - Academy Mlitary Trainers.

Heh, I didn't go to AF BMT.  When I was at Tech School all the pipeliners referred to someone, I think MTLs, as "blue ropes".

[Short Field]

The unknown SMSgt's TI definitely had a problem.  I don't know any BMTS commander that would tolerate a TI that goes to a Mess Dress function, gets drunk, and then comes back to challenge the recruits to fight him.   That is just a drunk - and the USAF doesn't use drunks to train people. 

If you get out of the Guard and Reserve units and away from the flying units, you see a lot more military discipline.   I know that in my 28 years, I was NEVER called by just my first or last name by anyone, officer or enlisted, who was junior to me.  I also never had a SNCO who would tolerate that in a unit.   

[lordmonar]

+1

[flyguy06]

What a lot of people donjt understand is there is a "training" environment and there is a "normal" environment.

In a training environment, you get up at the crack of sdwan, run outside andget into formation and do PT. You salute everytin,e a senior officer comes by. You snap to attention when a senior person comes into the room or the chow hall.

That works in CAP to, because for the most part cadets are in a "trainee" status they are learningto be leaders.
But in a normal duty workplace you wont see that. I dont want my soldiers snapping to attention everytime I walk in and outof thework area. They would be doing that all day and that isnt productive.

To many people in CAP wathc the old basic training movies and think thais everyday military life and it isnt. That is training. There is a reaosn for it, but once a service member gets to his or her duty staion it isnt like that.

I had a civilain ask me how did I live inthe barracks and for 18 years of military service. I told him, I lived in a house like he does. he had a stunnned look on his face :-)

[ol'fido]

The AF is going too corporate. In fact, it is the world's largest not-for-profit corporation.

What's the difference between the AF and Microsoft.

Beeeeeeep.

Microsoft doesn't have nuclear weapons. That we know of?

[RADIOMAN015]

The way I see it there's too many "wanna bees" (military types) in Civil Air Patrol.  Personally, I've got to wonder even why ANYONE in the active/reserve/guard (including civilian technicians) military are even associated with CAP.  Frankly during my 20 years of active military service, I persued hobbies & other family interests during my off duty time -- CAP wasn't even on the radar screen! 

Remember we are CIVIL Air Patrol.  Treat everyone (with respect) the way you want to be treated should be the golden rule.  Also remember that in non pay volunteer groups, there's going to be a much different leadership & management approach/style than with someone in a paid organization.  Don't let your CAP rank go to your head!

CAP is more civilian than military, so frankly the analogy in prior posts IMHO are not applicable!
RM

[Major Carrales]

The way I see it there's too many "wanna bees" (military types) in Civil Air Patrol.  Personally, I've got to wonder even why ANYONE in the active/reserve/guard (including civilian technicians) military are even associated with CAP.  Frankly during my 20 years of active military service, I persued hobbies & other family interests during my off duty time -- CAP wasn't even on the radar screen! 

I'm sort of take aback by the "wanna bee" comment. 

I agree that there are some that take it a bit too far.  I, for one, have always looked a CAP service for what is it.  I have never tried to make it into "USAF light" or "G.I. Joe," CAP is my service.  I do it because I believe in CAP, that we a a unique form of service to our community. 

I am sure that is the same for everyone else here, unless it is the goal of that person to turn CAP into the UN PAID AIR FORCE that even the USAF is not. 

I wear the uniform properly because that is the way it is to be done in the Civil Air Patrol.  In the same manner that a police officer or Fireman would.  For the same reasons I dress professionaly at my workplace.

I respect the influence of the USAF and other services, however, if those concepts are out of the realm of CAP's objective, I might give them a look or two but I have my litany of "questions" I ask about their actual value for CAP.  If the answer is no, I do not lend my support to it.

The "Military" elements in place benefit our cadets.  Cadet encampments should run like the a real military encampment to some degree so that Cadet interested in military life can see what such training entails.  Some that dislike it make best make the choise against the training before enlisting in the Service.

If cadets participate in ES, just as the Seniors, they should maintain certain physical fitness and professional discipline comiserate to their CAP service.  Does this mean being trained by "Sgt Slaughter," dressing like "John RAMBO" or wearing boonie hats and enough gear to storm Granada again?  Likely not.  But it does require that one take CAP seriously enough to have the needed gear, skill sets and professionalism.

Remember we are CIVIL Air Patrol.  Treat everyone (with respect) the way you want to be treated should be the golden rule.  Also remember that in non pay volunteer groups, there's going to be a much different leadership & management approach/style than with someone in a paid organization.  Don't let your CAP rank go to your head!

Well said.

CAP is more civilian than military, so frankly the analogy in prior posts IMHO are not applicable!

Finding the balance is the key.

[RiverAux]

The way I see it there's too many "wanna bees" (military types) in Civil Air Patrol.  Personally, I've got to wonder even why ANYONE in the active/reserve/guard (including civilian technicians) military are even associated with CAP. 

Treat everyone (with respect) the way you want to be treated should be the golden rule. 

Might want to follow your own recommendation since you basically just insulted everyone in CAP by saying that you wonder why any military types "associate" with us. 

[capchiro]

Perhaps the term "warrior" is a misnomer.  In this day and age, almost all wars will be won from the air.  Anytime we get on the ground and start dragging our butts around, we are in a no-win situation.  Ground forces are used to sustain the area after it has been taken.  We don't have the military depth to fight or win a sustained ground war and it is not our intention.  Yes, it takes someone rugged to go one to one with a [[terrorist]] or someone else, but one to one is not the way to win out and out war.  If we want truly to win we will utilize the Air Force and Naval Aviation to annihilate our opponents.  If we want to drag it out and give their populace the time to change regimes, we will send in ground forces and waste American lives diplomatically.  The art of war is to win and let the other son of a [[censored]] die for his country.  Air power makes this possible, surgical and quick.   Also, I am not downplaying the role of Army Aviation as I were one, but, for the mostest and the fastest, the bigger the bang the better.  Today and tomorrows wars will be won by technicians and perhaps they are the true "warriors".  As usual, JMHO 

Edited by Admin --MK

[RADIOMAN015]

The way I see it there's too many "wanna bees" (military types) in Civil Air Patrol.  Personally, I've got to wonder even why ANYONE in the active/reserve/guard (including civilian technicians) military are even associated with CAP. 

Treat everyone (with respect) the way you want to be treated should be the golden rule. 

Might want to follow your own recommendation since you basically just insulted everyone in CAP by saying that you wonder why any military types "associate" with us. 

Well a bit more on an explanation -- actually, I know folks who were associated with the military who let their membership lapse.  The specific reason given was CAP was too much like their military duties and they needed to do "something" different on their time off duty.   Since I'm "retired" military I do something different on my day civilian job so that what I do in CAP is different for me (and I've specifically avoided any duties/ functions that would be similiar to my day time job)!   Again though, I just don't understand what the off duty "counter balance" is for the active/reserve/guard person who's also an active CAP member???!!!! (and perhaps those in that specific category would care to comment WHY they chose CAP in lieu of other organizations).    

Retrospectively, I was TOO STRONG in my comments about the "wanna bees" so to speak -- so an APOLOGY, because I know some members that can't meet the miltary physical (medical issues) standards who are terrific, dedicated CAP members, who wear the AF style uniform with pride & compliance.  HOWEVER, we do have to watchful with senior members around cadets, that get too "military basic TI" so to speak.  
RM        

[Eclipse]

Well a bit more on an explanation -- actually, I know folks who were associated with the military who let their membership lapse.  The specific reason given was CAP was too much like their military duties and they needed to do "something" different on their time off duty.

This has been identified as one of the key reasons why it can be more difficult than one might magine to recruit for units
on military bases - your core demographic spend their whole day in a uniform and is not interested in more of the same after work. 

Again though, I just don't understand what the off duty "counter balance" is for the active/reserve/guard person who's also an active CAP member???!!!! (and perhaps those in that specific category would care to comment WHY they chose CAP in lieu of other organizations).

For someone who's military life is a desk bound situation, far from anything resembling the fight, CAP might actually offer more fun and adventure than their daytime service.

[Major Carrales]

Retrospectively, I was TOO STRONG in my comments about the "wanna bees" so to speak -- so an APOLOGY

Kudos, my friend, it is truly a man of character that can take ownership of the misspoken word (this case written) as well as the grealy spoken ones.  Apology is a condition much lacking in the forums these days.  Here is to civility!!!

Sparky

[RogueLeader]

Speaking for myself, who is on AD Army btw, I find CAP duty to be a repreive from my day job.  It's the big thing that keeps me sane.  Right now I could take or leave the Army when my four are up.  I can NOT say that about CAP.

[Stonewall]

HOWEVER, we do have to watchful with senior members around cadets, that get too "military basic TI" so to speak.  

You know, one time I had a mother/member whose son was a cadet.  One of those "CAP Moms" as I call them.  She never ever met me while I was in another squadron a few miles down the road, and sent me an email stating I was running a "Marine Corps style boot camp of a squadron" and that I didn't know the meaning of CAP.  I'm guessing her idea was to coddle young "kids" instead of building them into leaders of tomorrow.

Once again, at this point she had never witnessed "my program".

After I transfer ed to the squadron and took over as commander of where she and her son were members, she then praised me for my ability to lead a squadron.  Both squadrons earned "squadron of the year" type awards, cadet and Seniors of the year, safety officer and MLO of the year.  But somehow, my leadership style was construed by others as "too militaristic", "too hard corps" and I was a wanna-be of sorts.  The truth was, I ran my squadrons exactly how I saw other very successful squadron commanders run theirs, to include from when I was a cadet.  My military background as an Army Infantryman, both active and in the Army Guard, probably played very little role in my CAP "career" other than having real military experience. 

I was in CAP before I was in the military and I remained in CAP after joining the military.  Like many cadets, I had no intentions of joining CAP as a senior, but got hooked into it after meeting some very "high speed" seniors who later went on to be mentors.  These seniors had years of CAP and military experience.  Men who had served in all varieties of career fields from Special Forces to Intelligence.  Almost every squadron commander I had in DCWG was an active duty military officer, Army and Air Force.  Many of the members were also active or reserve military members.  And those who weren't were retired or veterans, many of whom were working in the intelligence field.

To be in CAP and the military is a huge balancing act.  Not so much for my time in the Guard because it's only one weekend a month.  I enjoy working with young people and playing a role in the lives of cadets who seek a future of service before self whether it be in the military or elsewhere.  Just so happens that a majority of my past cadets have gone on to serve in the military.  Not all, but most.  I think my military experience helped me in CAP while working with cadets to give a real life military aspect to the program, not one from a book.

I too am a senior member who wears gray pants and the blue polo on occasion.  I too have a full-time civilian job, but I serve in the Air Guard too.  My job in the Air Guard bears little resemblance to that of my work in CAP.  In many ways, as I've said before, CAP (mostly the cadet program) can be more "military" than the real military.

[Short Field]

In this day and age, almost all wars will be won from the air. 

The man standing on the ground is the one who owns it.  We had Air Supremacy in South Vietnam and currently have it in Iraq and Afganistan.    Air Power can set the stage for victory - but it takes a grunt to own the ground. 

[Stonewall]

In this day and age, almost all wars will be won from the air. 

The man standing on the ground is the one who owns it.  We had Air Supremacy in South Vietnam and currently have it in Iraq and Afganistan.    Air Power can set the stage for victory - but it takes a grunt to own the ground. 

Thank you.  I was getting to this after I gave my kids a bath.

[Major Carrales]

Speaking for myself, who is on AD Army btw, I find CAP duty to be a reprieve from my day job.  It's the big thing that keeps me sane.  Right now I could take or leave the Army when my four are up.  I can NOT say that about CAP.

Wow...that means that CAP is "working" where you are.  Once it become more of a burden than looked forward to, then something need to be analyzed, synthsized and evaluated.

Service to one's community must always be, dare I say the words, "fun" and to a degree "awesome."  If not it is closer to community servitude than community service.

[cap235629]

In this day and age, almost all wars will be won from the air. 

The man standing on the ground is the one who owns it.  We had Air Supremacy in South Vietnam and currently have it in Iraq and Afganistan.    Air Power can set the stage for victory - but it takes a grunt to own the ground. 

Thank you.  I was getting to this after I gave my kids a bath.

I was going to jump all over that one as well but decided to keep it civil.

[SarDragon]

The way I see it there's too many "wanna bees" (military types) in Civil Air Patrol.  Personally, I've got to wonder even why ANYONE in the active/reserve/guard (including civilian technicians) military are even associated with CAP.  Frankly during my 20 years of active military service, I persued hobbies & other family interests during my off duty time -- CAP wasn't even on the radar screen! 

Remember we are CIVIL Air Patrol.  Treat everyone (with respect) the way you want to be treated should be the golden rule.  Also remember that in non pay volunteer groups, there's going to be a much different leadership & management approach/style than with someone in a paid organization.  Don't let your CAP rank go to your head!

CAP is more civilian than military, so frankly the analogy in prior posts IMHO are not applicable!
RM

YGBSM! What a narrow-minded view.

I was in CAP before I joined the Navy, and continued my membership through much of my 21 year time on active duty. I considered it an honor and privilege to give something back to the organization that gave me a "heads up" on my military career, and I maintain that attitude today.

[JoeTomasone]

"To Each His Own".   No?

My reasons for being in CAP are probably different than most people's.   Likewise for my break in membership and my time in Patron status.   Current/Ex-Military or not, everyone has different likes, dislikes, priorities, and beliefs.   Why is this so hard to understand?