National Commander's Suspension Coming to an end Sunday

[SDF_Specialist]

Isn't it time to close this thread. Pineda has been removed, everyone has had their say, negative or positive. This horse in not only dead, it's on the menu at a French restaurant

Pass the A1!

[Eagle400]

No, I don't think this topic has reached 'dead horse' status yet.  The removal of a national commander is a black mark on the organization and it seems like the best thing the average member can do at this point is talk about how to move on despite Pineda's wrongdoings (and how to make the organization better).

And that includes holding Pineda's sycophants to the fire.     

[Nomex Maximus]

So, now that he is out of CAP, can he join the Coast Guard Aux?

[flyguy06]

I just found out about Pineda's removal. They sue wee quick to get his picture off the front of the CAP homepage and they were quick to add Courters pic and letter of welcome. I suspect they started all of this before today.

I agree that this is now a dead issue, and we should let it rest. I am sorry this played out in public and cadets were exposed to it. Now they are posting negative things about our former Commander which I dont think is healthy for their leadership development but thats just me. My cadets dont read this board so it really doesnt effect me or my folks.

[MajorChuck]

I just found out about Pineda's removal. They sue wee quick to get his picture off the front of the CAP homepage and they were quick to add Courters pic and letter of welcome. I suspect they started all of this before today.

I agree that this is now a dead issue, and we should let it rest. I am sorry this played out in public and cadets were exposed to it. Now they are posting negative things about our former Commander which I dont think is healthy for their leadership development but thats just me. My cadets dont read this board so it really doesnt effect me or my folks.

I got a call from a Fellow Wing Member saying He saw it on the news scrawl on CNN. thats not the best of Publicity.

[NEBoom]

I've been staying clear of this whole mess for the most part, but now that it looks like things might be winding down, I have a question.

Why?

I've always been aware of the politics going on in the "echelons above reality" (and apt name, BTW).  But since I returned to CAP 5 years ago I've seen it all much more "close up" (being from NCR, I saw the meteoric rise and fall of Rex Glasgow, and had to deal with some of the collateral damage afterword).  What the heck is it that drives the people at this level?  What the heck to they get out of it that makes it worth what they put themselves through?  My wife is perplexed that I put so much effort into a job for which I don't get paid, but my time and effort expended is a drop in the bucket compared to the higher-ups I've seen.

Is it power?  Popularity?  Trappings of "high office?"  Ego?

Or is it a true and loyal sense of service?

And why is it that so many of us in CAP are so quick to put our own selfish best interests ahead of the good of the organization?  Can't we see that the potential of CAP as a whole is far greater whatever gratification we'd get from some hollow political victory over our "enemies?"

And to me the knife cuts both ways.  At the risk of drawing the wrath of those of you with a dog in the fight, I have to say that I haven't been impressed by the behavior being displayed on either side of this conflict.  I understand the emotions involved in being on the receiving end of a big-time "wronging," but I also know that one's behavior and deportment in times of trouble is a good indicator of one's "true colors."  The failure of certain individuals to "rise above it" and behave in a respectable manner has not been helpful to their cause, IMO.

The thing that burns me the most about all this is (as mentioned in previous posts) the damage done to my beloved CAP.  Someone much wiser than me once said, "A house divided cannot stand."  And that's always been my darkest fear in all this.  That we might emerge from this so divided as to permanently cripple CAP.  Thankfully, it looks like the system worked (perhaps not perfectly, but hey, at this point I'll take it), and at the end of the day we're going to be OK.

So my point for discussion is this.  Why did it happen?  I already know parts of the answer.  A system where a board elects a commander, who in turn appoints the board members is a part of it.  But there's more to it.  And if we don't learn from history, we're doomed to repeat it.

Have at it.

[Major Carrales]

NEBoom,

I think we have had our fill of this sort of thing.  Some want to go on, to drag it out...I think most of us will reject those efforts, or merely ignore them, in favor of building a new GREATER Civil Air Patrol.

Still, what happens to people who win their cause?  What of the Abolitionist when slavery is illegal, the cancer research scientists once cancer is cured or of a true revolutionary when the revolution is over?

We need to be like George Washington, win the revolution...get back to the business of living...and help buid a new nation.

Like I said in an earlier post, I give it until next Tuesday...then we can move on.  Everything that will ever be said on the matter will have been said.  It should be out of our system by then...after that, we can get to the business of running CAP.

I don't know about you, but I plan to found a squadron. 

[SJFedor]

I don't know about you, but I plan to found a squadron. 

You're trying to found enough squadrons to create your own group, aren't you 

[/topic drift]

[♠SARKID♠]

I just realized why cap.gov looked so different...they took TP's picture off the home page.

*BEHOLD MY MASTERFUL POWERS OF OBSERVATION!* 

[ZigZag911]

An observation: the root problem will remain as long as the electors of the National Commander are also that individual's subordinate commanders.

It is a conflict of interest of unspeakable proportions.

We need to separate the position of National Board member representing a wing (which should be a past wing CC or some other suitable officer) and that of wing commander.

It won't eliminate all the funny business, but will render it much more difficult to pull off.

[Eagle400]

I got a call from a Fellow Wing Member saying He saw it on the news scrawl on CNN. thats not the best of Publicity.

To heck with CNN, I want CAP's dirty laundry aired on the O'Reilly Factor!     

[♠SARKID♠]

I got a call from a Fellow Wing Member saying He saw it on the news scrawl on CNN. thats not the best of Publicity.

To heck with CNN, I want CAP's dirty laundry aired on the O'Reilly Factor!     

Easy now...

[Major Carrales]

I got a call from a Fellow Wing Member saying He saw it on the news scrawl on CNN. thats not the best of Publicity.

To heck with CNN, I want CAP's dirty laundry aired on the O'Reilly Factor!     

Easy now...

See how some poeple can't just let it end.  Bill O'Reilly wouldn't give thsi story the time of day since it, for all intents and purposes, is RESOLVED!

[Eagle400]

I got a call from a Fellow Wing Member saying He saw it on the news scrawl on CNN. thats not the best of Publicity.

To heck with CNN, I want CAP's dirty laundry aired on the O'Reilly Factor!     

Easy now...

See how some poeple can't just let it end.  Bill O'Reilly wouldn't give thsi story the time of day since it, for all intents and purposes, is RESOLVED!

Uh, no.  When CAP reaches the point where it is not possible to bring into command someone like Pineda, then I'll share that sentiment. 

[Major Carrales]

I got a call from a Fellow Wing Member saying He saw it on the news scrawl on CNN. thats not the best of Publicity.

To heck with CNN, I want CAP's dirty laundry aired on the O'Reilly Factor!     

Easy now...

See how some poeple can't just let it end.  Bill O'Reilly wouldn't give thsi story the time of day since it, for all intents and purposes, is RESOLVED!

Uh, no.  When CAP reaches the point where it is not possible to bring into command someone like Pineda, then I'll share that sentiment. 

I assume this means you have rejoined CAP?

We, here, plan to move on...to head toward a point where petty politics is relegated to the history books.  You seem to want to wallow in this.  Those that don't plan to move on have a problem.

Have it your way...but sorry, you are about to be obsolete.

[PA Guy]

Uh, no.  When CAP reaches the point where it is not possible to bring into command someone like Pineda, then I'll share that sentiment. 

Sounds like an obsession to me.

[Cecil DP]

An observation: the root problem will remain as long as the electors of the National Commander are also that individual's subordinate commanders.

We need to separate the position of National Board member representing a wing (which should be a past wing CC or some other suitable officer) and that of wing commander.

It won't eliminate all the funny business, but will render it much more difficult to pull off.

But who would appoint the NB Representative?

[SJFedor]

But who would appoint the NB Representative?

Why not the Wing members themselves? Require NB representatives to hold the grade of at least Major, with at least 3 years of command or staff experience (either Squadron command or higher echelon staff), essentially the same requirements for apointment to the BoG Member at Large. And then, nominees submit their names for consideration, members of the Wing vote during, lets say, the wing conference, and they serve a term to be determined. My thought would be 2-3 years, and they could run for another term, however, they'd need a break in service of at least double the length of term that the NB officer serves. 2 year term? Not elligible for re-election until 4 years after your last term ended.

Appointment requires you resign any current command or staff position.

My idea is very flawed, since I've outlined a very basic idea, but to me, the rank and file member, it feels like I don't have much of an active voice, other then sending annoying emails to my Wing/CC. This could be a plan to put more of the power in the organization back to the members, and not to the elite few.

[Skyray]

Believe me guys, I would like nothing better than to get down to business as usual.  I have three master ratings, I have finished but not been awarded Level V,  I am a mission pilot, and back in my day I was a mission coordinator.  Moving toward qualifying as an IC, I have finished the Incident Command System courses through 800.  When I left CAP I was working on my CFI for Stan/Eval which I needed for Master Operations.  The first move I made upon hearing the news about Pineda was to attempt to rejoin.  And I was told that I am not welcome.

Much as I hate to say it, only the first skirmish has been won.  The self licking ice cream cone is alive and well.  I think we should keep the National Board just as it is, with the representatives being the Wing Kings.  We should just separate appointment of Wing Kings from the authority of appointment by those they elect.  And Wing King should also have to prove the value of a termination to a truly independent adjudicator.  With the present system, it is entirely too easy to eliminate competition with unjust and unfounded 2Bs.

And please, G-d, don't send that bustard to the Coast Guard Auxiliary.  He has already done enough damage there by teaching them his paradigm.

[JohnKachenmeister]

This Pineda thread is starting to remind me of the coverage given to Brittney Spears and Lindsay Lohan.

In fact, doesn't Pineda live in the same area as O.J. Simpson?  Coincidence?  I think not!