National Commander's Suspension Coming to an end Sunday

[NIN]

Either way, following Ecclesiastes, it is time to rebuild.

OK, Doug, you and I have had pretty cordial conversations over the last 10+ years, often on this subject (Me being up in the Great White North, and later Great White Northeast, I only visit my colleagues in FL for vacational-type things, and thus don't ever have to "deal CAP" down in SER, so while I felt your pain, and that of your fellow members down there, it was always of a "man, I'm glad that's not happening to me [yet]" variety...).

So, now that Pineda is gone (and believe me, I'm one of the folks saying "The Dougs were right all along.."), do we have to keep having threads devolve into "I told you so about Pineda?"

Its getting to be quite the "in" joke amongst CAP-Talkers:  "How many posts will it take Doug Johnson to bring up Pineda, Bowling, etc?"

So lets see how long into the rebuilding phase we can go without dipping into the "lets bash Tony" eh?  Time to forge ahead.

[MidwaySix]

My two cents:

Tony Pineda Fired
http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/2007/10/tony-pineda-fir.html

Sorry about the cross-post.

- Midway Six

CAPblog
Always Vigilant - Never Boring.

[Cadet Tillett]

News just came in via email. Pineda is gone. Courter is in.

MAXWELL AIR FORCE BASE, Ala. – The Civil Air Patrol's Board of Governors, in a teleconference Tuesday night, voted to remove Maj. Gen. Antonio J. Pineda from his position as CAP national commander. 

The board's action comes two months after the chairman of the Board of Governors, Maj. Gen. Richard Bowling, announced the 11-member board had suspended the CAP national commander for a period of up to 180 days. The suspension occurred after the board convened a special Aug. 5 meeting to receive the initial CAP Inspector General's Report of Investigation concerning allegations that a CAP Florida Wing member took U.S. Air Force Air Command and Staff College tests for Pineda in 2002 and 2003.

"This action was taken after careful review of the facts and circumstances and after numerous discussions of the report of the investigation against Gen. Pineda," said Bowling.

Vice Commander Brig. Gen. Amy S. Courter, who has served as acting national commander since Pineda was suspended by the Board of Governors on Aug. 5, now takes leadership of the Civil Air Patrol as interim commander as prescribed in the CAP Constitution and Bylaws. She will hold the position until the August 2008 CAP board meeting, where members will vote to select a new commander.  Courter is eligible to run for the position.

Nice, I'm happy now!

Good luck Brig. Gen. Courter!

[a2capt]

Ding Dong the Witch is D .. er, well, gone.

I hope it's not the end for TP, but for CAP at least.

Gen. Courter is a class act and down to earth.

..and we're so tired of changing unit SoPs.. 

[Eclipse]

Sure sounds like the fat lady singing, Bac Si.

It has been previously discussed here that the BoG's marble bag seems to have a big hole in it, and it seems to dump right at Skip Munger's back door.  The National website addresses the issue of command, but the individual notice I got this morning said command, rank and membership.  I see a couple of possibilities.  Once someone is no longer in the chain, their membership status is none of our business, along with their rank.  So there is a good argument that would not be appropriate for posting on the web site.  My dispatch may be correct.  The other possibility is that the information is incorrect.  Either way, following Ecclesiastes, it is time to rebuild.

Command is a public matter - we all need to know who are leader(s) are.

Membership and grade are a personnel matter and frankly, none of our business - certainly not the kind of thing which should be discussed publicly.

Commanders, even at the national level, serve at the pleasure of their superiors, removing a commander is a much more subjective process than terminating a membership.  As if my opinion mattered, I couldn't care less if he retains his stars or his membership.  His influence on my part of CAP is over, and likely over regardless.

As to those "enjoying" the singing, take a moment to think about what a sad day this really is for CAP.

A >VOLUNTEER<, who has given thousands of hours of his own time, money, and sweat equity to this organization, is now being run out of town because (we think) he cheated on a test to attain status which is ultimately of little actual value.  How badly did CAP fail to instill its core values in this man that he misunderstood what we are all about?

We're not talking about some West-Point grad who was born with a silver spoon, rose to power through connections and then squanders his legacy getting kick-backs from a defense contractor.  He came up the same way we all do, and his annual salary is exactly the same as everyone else's.  Worse still is that his involvement
with CAP cost him his credibility with FDLE (his REAL job), and likely 10's of thousands of dollars in unreimbursed expenses along the way.

The negative publicity and "cool points" this has cost us are immeasurable, not to mention the loss of confidence by the rank and file.

At the end of this (and we may only be at the mid-point), this is a failure of the entire system.  Members behaved badly, and others in leadership positions did little to keep that behavior in check.

If Maj. Gen. Pineda really is 1/2 as bad as some people here would have us believe, then the fact that he could rise to national prominence is a [darn]ing statement against us.  If he is simply a mis-guided man with his own plan who goose-stepped over people to get things done, then those who let it happen are still to blame.

In any case, this is hardly a happy day for CAP, or a song-worthy situation.

My personal hope is that he will be allowed to go quietly on his way, and we can all move on to some real problems...

[cnitas]

I disagree that membership and grade are 'private' matters.

If TP arrived at my squadron meeting tonight wearing 2 stars, but he was actually a non-member...is that a problem? 

How would we know if we should send him packing, or if we should allow him to ride along in our shiny new airplane?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Eclipse:

My reference to the "Fat lady singing" was to the fact that this long nightmare seems to be over.  I take no joy in the result.

Others here do, however, and I can understand why based on some of the things they have described.

But, you are right.  If Pineda was able to consolidate power and abuse others through our organization, then the entire nature of our organization, and its oversight, should come under review.

[CAP_truth]

First we removed him from command.
Second we demote him to senior member.
Third we remove any awards given him.
And finally we 2b him out of CAP.

[Eclipse]

I disagree that membership and grade are 'private' matters.

If TP arrived at my squadron meeting tonight wearing 2 stars, but he was actually a non-member...is that a problem? 

How would we know if we should send him packing, or if we should allow him to ride along in our shiny new airplane?

Ask to see his ID card, that's all any of us can do to substantiate membership.

[Major Carrales]

First we removed him from command.
Second we demote him to senior member.
Third we remove any awards given him.
And finally we 2b him out of CAP.

I vote for just letting it end.  I know some of you were slighted by Pineda and have axes to grind, but let's remember the lessons from Captain Ahab.

The organization needs to heal, let's not continue to "pick at the scab."  We cannot start rebuilding until this is over.  If all these things you mention happen this week, so be it.  If not, let him fade into CAP history.  "'Tis a worse fate to be faded and subdued into oblivion, than to be made a maytr of.

Plus, we don't even know if he is guilty of any of the wrong doing  (unless information has been released), for all we know he was removed for merely causing this "scandal."

Will we ever know the truth?  Can we ever? Should we even ever know?

Let's end this...please.  I feel like seeing the Brigadier General's tenure begin without all this "soot."

Like was said elsewhere, this is not time to be singing old songs, we need to be composing new ones.

[CadetProgramGuy]

And there was joy! 

I take no joy in the fact that the organization I am passionate about now has a black eye.

My .02 cents says the BoG was right and due process was followed, and I am pleased of the outcome.

Just remember that the YEARS of "Atta Boy's" each one of us have worked for just went screaming out the window because of one members Massve "Oh Crap".....But them again that seems to be the trend in CAP whether it is on the local or national level.

Lets re-build CAP together, but please don't forget that what happens at the local level effects all of us across the entire nation.

Oh and by the way.  Mr. Peneda is gone, move on. 

Maj Gen (select) Courtier,  I continue to serve CAP at your pleasure.

[Walkman]

I'm glad I came in at the tail end of this. Whether or not Pineda is guilty of everything he's been accused of, I'll admit that it's been a concern in the back of mind since I joined. His suspension came down a couple of weeks after I sent in my papers. That moment caused some major concerns to pop up in mind about what kind of org I just signed up with.

With what everyone says about Gen Courtier, and the "let's move forward" attitude expressed here it, I came in at just the right time. I'm excited for the future.

[Dragoon]

Personally, I don't think this is a "dark day for CAP" or anything like that.

1.  It shows the system works.  Bad guys get taken down.  Publically.  The long term consequences of this are that CAP gains credibility points for showing that it can police itself.

2.  The BOG actually exerted its power.  IMHO, this is a good thing, and a good precedent.  As an oversight board, they really have taken a hands off approach in the past.  I think CAP has foundered because of it.  Everyone needs a boss, or you just do whatever you want, whether it needs doing or not.  The National Commander didn't really have a boss - it's not like he answered to USAF.  So now we know - the BOG is watching...

3.  It will put the fear of the Almighty into some folks who felt no one was watching.  This could be a very good thing.

So overall, I'm pretty happy.  Not specifically because Tony P got slammed, but because a highly connected powerful guy was still held accountable for his actions.

(and yeah, mebbe also because there's a chance at losing the U.S. "Army" flag on the BDUs now   )

[Major Carrales]

(and yeah, mebbe also because there's a chance at losing the U.S. "Army" flag on the BDUs now   )

Last time I looked, that was a United State Flag there.  And I can also assume that Pineda has little to do unilaterally to get that one there.

[Skyray]

I respect NIN from our long history of communicating together, and I value his friendship.  In fact there are many in CAP, both still in and former members, whom I count as friends.  I am saddened by the fact that my lack of tolerance for a demonstrated lack of integrity has deteriorated into a joke.  In many ways, that is not an indictment of me, but of you.  I agree with whoever it was, I think Eclipse, who said that the Machiavellian climb to power was an indictment of the members.  Not the members, Eclipse, but the ones who have climbed into the incestuous board and permitted this rise to power for their own aggrandizement.

The first thing I did upon hearing the news was call up and try to apply for membership.  I was told that I am not welcome.  Apparently, standing up against corruption negates your value to the organization, even after that corruption is excised.

You guys that had numbers in the pool as to when I would Tourette, kiss your bets goodbye.  I am not going to Tourette, just wander sadly on my way mourning the damage that has been done to my once great organization by merely one or two players.

[LtCol White]

Either way, following Ecclesiastes, it is time to rebuild.

OK, Doug, you and I have had pretty cordial conversations over the last 10+ years, often on this subject (Me being up in the Great White North, and later Great White Northeast, I only visit my colleagues in FL for vacational-type things, and thus don't ever have to "deal CAP" down in SER, so while I felt your pain, and that of your fellow members down there, it was always of a "man, I'm glad that's not happening to me [yet]" variety...).

So, now that Pineda is gone (and believe me, I'm one of the folks saying "The Dougs were right all along.."), do we have to keep having threads devolve into "I told you so about Pineda?"

Its getting to be quite the "in" joke amongst CAP-Talkers:  "How many posts will it take Doug Johnson to bring up Pineda, Bowling, etc?"

So lets see how long into the rebuilding phase we can go without dipping into the "lets bash Tony" eh?  Time to forge ahead.

I agree. Its over and the issue is resolved. How about everyone devoting their time and energy in a positive direction that will help make CAP stronger and into the better organization we all want and know it can and should be.

Lets move on people. There are more important things to do here!

[RiverAux]

I only wished they had followed the regulations they had approved and left it to the National Board or failing that, change the regulations to give themselves the power.  I don't think we want the BoG willy-nilly inserting itself into details of CAP business that it has delegated to other bodies. 

Essentially this was the same thing as if the BoG had removed a squadron commander themselves rather than using the system they have approved for doing it. 

Ignoring regulations in order to punish somebody for ignoring regulations and ethical standards was the wrong way to sovle this problem. 

[Smokey]

From the Air Force Times.....includes a comment by TP...
CAP commander ousted in test scandal

By Phillip Rawls - The Associated Press
Posted : Wednesday Oct 3, 2007 12:18:54 EDT
   
MONTGOMERY, Ala. — The national commander of the Civil Air Patrol, Maj. Gen. Antonio J. Pineda, was removed from his post following complaints that another patrol member took Air Force tests for him.

The patrol's Board of Governors took the action in a teleconference Tuesday night, spokeswoman Julie DeBardelaben said Wednesday.

The board suspended Pineda two months ago while investigating complaints by another CAP member that he took tests for Pineda at the U.S. Air Force Air Command and Staff College in 2002 and 2003.

"This action was taken after careful review of the facts and circumstances and after numerous discussions of the report of the investigation against General Pineda," said Maj. Gen. Richard Bowling, the board's chairman.

Pineda, a retired law enforcement officer from Plantation, Fla., said Wednesday no one took tests for him, but he never got to tell his side to the board.

"After being a volunteer in this organization for 20 years, this is how they pay me back," he said Wednesday.

Vice Commander Brig. Gen. Amy S. Courter, who has served as acting national commander since Pineda was suspended by the Board of Governors on Aug. 5, took over as interim commander.

The Civil Air Patrol, a federally funded auxiliary of the Air Force, is based at Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery. It has more than 55,000 volunteer members nationwide and is best known for its search-and-rescue missions.

[Skyray]

O.K. you guys.  If I can't talk about Tony, then you shouldn't talk about Tony.  I knew in 1996 that he lacked integrity; it took the BoG eleven years to find it out.  Now he's claiming that he was denied due process.  I am told backchannel by someone with IC access to the database that his name no longer appears there as a member.  We have something in common.  I wonder if he drinks beer--maybe we could get together and commiserate.

[O-Rex]

Since we derive some of our culture from the Military, consider this:

"The mark of a professional soldier is to be gracious in victory and not revel over the vanquished. . ."

To those of you wanting to fight beyond the "point of culmination" I ask: if you become a National Commander, what would you want to be remembered for?

Consider the legacy that TP is leaving punishment enough, and let's move on.....