National Commander's Suspension Coming to an end Sunday

[Skyray]

News of the Force, whatever you may think of it, has sources in many aspects of the Civil Air Patrol apparently including the Board of Governors.  They published this article:

Sources tell News of the Force that the Civil Air Patrol's Board of Governors (BoG) is divided over what to do about suspended national commander CAP Maj. Gen. Tony Pineda.
    Options being considered, the sources say, are either to remove Pineda permanently from his position as national commander and as a member of the CAP, or to reinstate him as national commander until his term ends in August 2008, but with the provision that he would have no authority and could make no decisions.
    The sources say that the first option -- membership termination -- is distasteful to some BoG members because the CAP has never before terminated the membership of a sitting national commander. But, the sources added -- and all of them agreed -- that Pineda's history shows that he is unlikely to accept the other option -- reinstatement with no authority.
    So, the BoG is in a quandary, the sources say. But whatever decision is made, a major announcement from the BoG on this matter is expected by Sunday, the sources all said.
    The Civil Air Patrol is the volunteer, civilian Auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force.

[Cecil DP]

I think under the options given, they have no choice but to remove him at the earliest moment.

[flyerthom]

Since when does any government agency make a non emergency announcement on a Sunday?


I'll believe it when I see it.

[Skyray]

Since when does any government agency make a non emergency announcement on a Sunday?


I'll believe it when I see it.

Probably a decent point, but it is not a government agency but a collection of volunteers who do their best work on week ends.  What bothers me most is that it seems like a whitewash.  Remember that this is the guy that offered to resign if they would let him keep his stars.  Why would he NOT take an offer that keeps both the stars and the positional bling?  And a goodly number of the Board oif Governors owe their positions to his patronage.  Reinstate him and I will almost guarantee that he will be back full force before next August.

[isuhawkeye]

^^^ Agreed

[SDF_Specialist]

I think the BoG will go for the reinstatement, but with no authority. The only way I see TP getting 2b'ed is by arguing the fact that he being is the position of National/CC has no meaning since he can't make decisions. This will definitely be interesting to see the final ruling.

[ZigZag911]

If this is indeed the case (and NOTF is not always 100% accurate!) several thoughts occur to me:

1) why would anyone want to accept an empty 'reinstatement'?

2) if the Nat'l CC actually offered to resign if he could keep his rank, then why would the BOG not go for that option rather than this empty gesture?

3) suppose Gen. Pineda accepts their offer, then decides to test their legal authority by asserting his own....what can the BOG do then? And how long will it take them to do it?

It seems to me that the BOG has an obligation to reach a decision in this case, in justice to all those concerned.

If the National Commander is innocent, he deserves to have his record & reputation cleared.

If he is guilty, he does not belong at the helm of CAP....allowing him to step aside "for the good of the service", in other words to retire quietly, would be a generous resolution indeed.

[mikeylikey]

Why would WE want a leader who CAN'T LEAD?  Does that make sense?  Just dump him as soon as possible!  Lets not embarrass everyone more by letting him stay at his post, but defer to his Deputy for all decisions.

If they do decide to get rid of him.......his stars should be removed as well.

[SDF_Specialist]

1) why would anyone want to accept an empty 'reinstatement'?
Would you willingly give up the grade of Major General in CAP?

2) if the Nat'l CC actually offered to resign if he could keep his rank, then why would the BOG not go for that option rather than this empty gesture?
It would appear to me that they never considered this. But then again, why let someone hold a rank that they disgraced if he is guilty?

3) suppose Gen. Pineda accepts their offer, then decides to test their legal authority by asserting his own....what can the BOG do then? And how long will it take them to do it?
Conduct of becoming of a CAP member, Insubordination. I would hope that given his track record (again only if he is guilty) that there would be expulsion from the program. Just my opinion however.


I hope that whatever decision is made by the BoG will be beneficial to CAP, and not just to save their own butts from ridicule.

[CAP_truth]

I have checked both the constitution and by-laws, CAPR 35-7, and CAPR123-2  of CAP. Nowhere does the BoG have the authority to remove the national commander. The National Board has to vote two-thirds of theits members to remove that commander. He should be allowed to retire from CAP with no option to reutrn to active status or hold any position within the organization.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Since when does any government agency make a non emergency announcement on a Sunday?


I'll believe it when I see it.

Even FDR waited until Monday to ask for a declaration of war after Pearl Harbor!

[JC004]

I have checked both the constitution and by-laws, CAPR 35-7, and CAPR123-2  of CAP. Nowhere does the BoG have the authority to remove the national commander. The National Board has to vote two-thirds of theits members to remove that commander. He should be allowed to retire from CAP with no option to reutrn to active status or hold any position within the organization.

The BoG derives its power for the USC, in addition to the Constitution and Bylaws.  The BoG has more power than most realize, or it generally uses, but they do have far-reaching power over the organization.  The folks who said he cannot be suspended by the BoG are incorrect...the USC, Constitution and Bylaws, etc. grant to them the power to basically anything to carry on the business of the organization.  Maybe they can remove, maybe they cannot, but they can also change the Constitution an Bylaws...

[Cecil DP]

I have checked both the constitution and by-laws, CAPR 35-7, and CAPR123-2  of CAP. Nowhere does the BoG have the authority to remove the national commander. The National Board has to vote two-thirds of theits members to remove that commander. He should be allowed to retire from CAP with no option to return to active status or hold any position within the organization.

The Board of Governors are governed by AF Instruction AFI 10-2702 and in paragragph 2 of that document outlines their authority:

2. Principal Tasks. The Board of Governors is responsible for the operation of CAP as a Federally chartered
non-profit organization. As described in the CAP Constitution and Bylaws and related governing
documents, as its principal tasks, the Board of Governors:
2.1. Reviews and determines long-range plans and programs for CAP.
2.2. Directs improvements in CAP programs, financial positions, legislative relations (consistent with
the Anti-lobbying Act, 18 U.S.C. § 1913), asset allocations, and membership development, among
other things. The Board may also consider current and projected policies relating to the effectiveness
of CAP support to the Air Force, the nation, and the overall financial and volunteer wellbeing of CAP
as authorized under public law and this instruction.
2.3. Serves as a pool of expert advisors, either individually or in groups, to various CAP activities.
The individual Board members provide this service at their convenience and subject to their availability.
2.4. Appoints the CAP Executive Director.
2.5. Oversees the CAP Inspector General Program.
2.6. Oversees the activities of the CAP Adverse Action Review Board.
2.7. Oversees and may assign action items to the CAP Committee structure.
2.8. Revises the CAP Constitution and By-laws in accordance with section 1.1.1. of this instruction.
2.9. Inquires into any and all aspects of the CAP volunteer and CAP Corporate activities as it sees fit
as authorized under public law.

I believe articles 2.6, 2.8 and 2.9 would fit the bill regarding TP

[Pylon]

I have checked both the constitution and by-laws, CAPR 35-7, and CAPR123-2  of CAP. Nowhere does the BoG have the authority to remove the national commander. The National Board has to vote two-thirds of theits members to remove that commander. He should be allowed to retire from CAP with no option to reutrn to active status or hold any position within the organization.

Welcome to CAPTalk.  This topic was already beat to death in several other threads.  The BoG does have the implied authority in their vested powers by Congress to carry out any action in the best interest of the organization.  CAP Regulations do not bind the BoG; their authority derives from the Air Force and Congress, who's authority created the organization and can dissolve the entire organization.  The full arguments can be read by searching CAPTalk for the appropriate discussion topic on that particular subject.

Second, I don't believe the aforementioned post from NotF.  The BoG would not consider an option to reinstate someone to the position but with no powers.  What good would that do the organization?  The BoG is looking out for the good of Civil Air Patrol, and in that context could care less about the career of any one particular CAP volunteer.  The two likely options would be either to find the accused innocent of the accusations and thus return him to full power, position and authority; or if he is guilty of accusations to remove him from the position, so a replacement could get into place and help move the organization forward. 

No supervisor would let a guilty party keep their position and title, but make them to sit there and do nothing.  It would stunt the progress of the organization and ability of CAP to move forward.  That's why I don't buy it.

[RogueLeader]

Not to mention that we are only closing on 90 days, not 180.  Unless there was an announcement that I missed from NHQ.

[jimmydeanno]

Why would WE want a leader who CAN'T LEAD? 

Why does England keep their royal family, King or Queen.  A figurehead, someone who represents the ideals of the nation. 

Now, unfortunately, as you point out, we don't really want a "figurehead," especially one that doesn't represent the ideals of the organization.

[Chappie]

Quote:  The sources say that the first option -- membership termination -- is distasteful to some BoG members because the CAP has never before terminated the membership of a sitting national commander. But, the sources added -- and all of them agreed -- that Pineda's history shows that he is unlikely to accept the other option -- reinstatement with no authority.

If the BOG finds membership termination distasteful....here is a third option -- provided that he is guilty of the allegations of cheating on the exam and abuse of power (et. al.):

Removal from the position National Commander; demote him to Lt. Col. and allow him to retain his membership with the provision that he could never assume another command position at any level of CAP.

Just my $.002

[mikeylikey]

Removal from the position National Commander; demote him to Lt. Col. and allow him to retain his membership with the provision that he could never assume another command position at any level of CAP.

Umm......I think he only reached Major, before becoming a Colonel.  So Demotion to Major would be appropriate!

[Chaplaindon]

Not to mention that we are only closing on 90 days, not 180.  Unless there was an announcement that I missed from NHQ.

Actaully we're more than a week short of the 60 day point in the suspension. It began (well, at least announced publicly to CAP) on 06AUG07 ...

Maybe those at News of the Farce should do a little fact checking.

Perhap they had someone take their elementary school arithmetic tests for them ...

[NIN]

Why does England keep their royal family, King or Queen.  A figurehead, someone who represents the ideals of the nation. 

Now, unfortunately, as you point out, we don't really want a "figurehead," especially one that doesn't represent the ideals of the organization.

More importantly, the gov't of England operates independent of the monarchy.   Its not like they have to wait on the Queen to make a decision.

The Queen is the nominal head of state.  She is not, however, the chief executive.

Or something like that (I took British History in high school.. That was a long time ago!)