Changing Civil Air Patrol to U.S. Civil Air Patrol

[RiverAux]

I've now received fairly reliable information that during a recent missing airplane search, MG Pineda ordered that "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" be used in the press releases associated with that mission -- and not just in the header, but in the body of the text of the release.  So, I think he is looking to actually change the name of the organization, but just hasn't bothered to do it the right way yet. 

Now, have we even changed our own rules to allow for the use of U.S. Civil Air Patrol?  No, not at all.  See the CAP Constitution:

ARTICLE II
NAME AND STATUS
The name of the Corporation shall be "Civil Air Patrol" and its status is that of the volunteer civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force. The Corporation may also be referred to as "Civil Air Patrol" or by such other titles as may be approved in the Bylaws.

and

SECTION 2
NAME AND CORPORATE SEAL
2.1 The name of Civil Air Patrolmay be stated by any of the following:
a. "Civil Air Patrol"
b. "Civil Air Patrol, incorporated under Special Act of Congress approved July 1, 1946, Public Law 476, 79th Congress"
2.2 Each unit, including National Headquarters, shall use a name expressing its designation, the words "Civil Air Patrol" and may also refer to its status as the United States Air Force Auxiliary as set forth in regulations.

Clearly, the use of any name other than Civil Air Patrol needs to be approved in the Constitution and Bylaws. 

[JTodd]

After doing a list, it looks like DCWG (actually National Capitol Wing) was in the original list, but I don't have enough info at hand to figure out PR. If someone from any one of these wings (RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VT, VA, WA, WV, WI, WY) could give me the old number, I can figure out the rest.

WY is 49

[RiverAux]

Someone said something about ACA Cadets wearing "U.S. Army Cadet" on their uniforms.  According to ACA Instruction 1020.1

Nametapes with "Naval Cadets," "Marine Cadets," or "Army Cadets," must be worn on all utility uniforms, including field jackets, by all ACA personnel, properly affixed per references (c) through (e), as appropriate. Nametapes with "Naval Cadets," properly
affixed per reference (c), must be worn by USNCC personnel on Navy dungarees/utilities, coveralls and Navy utility jackets. The wear of "U.S. Navy," "U.S. Marines," or "U.S. Army" is not authorized, as ACA personnel are not serving as an active or reserve member of the U.S. Navy, Marine Corps, or Army while in the ACA uniform..

However, if you go to their web pages for their various subunits, they are calling themselves "U.S. Army Cadet Corps", "U.S. Naval Cadet Corp".  Now, isn't that going a bit too far? 

[NIN]

Someone said something about ACA Cadets wearing "U.S. Army Cadet" on their uniforms.  According to ACA Instruction 1020.1

Nametapes with "Naval Cadets," "Marine Cadets," or "Army Cadets," must be worn on all utility uniforms, including field jackets, by all ACA personnel, properly affixed per references (c) through (e), as appropriate. Nametapes with "Naval Cadets," properly
affixed per reference (c), must be worn by USNCC personnel on Navy dungarees/utilities, coveralls and Navy utility jackets. The wear of "U.S. Navy," "U.S. Marines," or "U.S. Army" is not authorized, as ACA personnel are not serving as an active or reserve member of the U.S. Navy, Marine Corps, or Army while in the ACA uniform..

However, if you go to their web pages for their various subunits, they are calling themselves "U.S. Army Cadet Corps", "U.S. Naval Cadet Corp".  Now, isn't that going a bit too far? 

I said it.  And perhaps I misspoke: Not everybody is wearing the U.S. Army Cadets nametapes yet. I happen to have a set for my ACUs that were personally handed to me by the HQ company commander enroute to AUSA this past fall.   Maybe I'm unwittingly a "wear tester" 

[ColonelJack]

Lost in all the hootin' and hollerin' about this proposal is this question:

What difference does it make?

Civil Air Patrol ... U.S. Civil Air Patrol ... it's still the same organization.  And we all know that calling a tail a leg does not make the name fit.

Methinks we're getting worked up over a tiny item.  Your mileage may vary.

Discuss.

Jack

[Chappie]

Quote: Lost in all the hootin' and hollerin' about this proposal is this question:

What difference does it make?

Civil Air Patrol ... U.S. Civil Air Patrol ... it's still the same organization.  And we all know that calling a tail a leg does not make the name fit.

Methinks we're getting worked up over a tiny item.  Your mileage may vary.

Discuss.

Jack
* * * * * *

Colonel Jack -- methinks that the hooting, hollaring, and getting worked up over a tiny item is more of a reaction to the way and by whom this change was presented.

[Major Carrales]

For the record, someone did stand up during the Live Stream and said words to the effect of...

"I know its only $0.75...but members may see it as another expense."

[SAR-EMT1]

For the record, someone did stand up during the Live Stream and said words to the effect of...

"I know its only $0.75...but members may see it as another expense."

And not just a FINANCIAL expense, but also something that may -to the press and AF- have the effect of distancing ourselves from the AF.
Me thinks two three years down the road all mention of the AF will be gone, our name will be "The Pineda Ranger Patrol" we will be wearing bright pink ACUs and our National Commander will have the Rank of StarFleet Admiral.

I say we set a definitive limit on the Nat. CC term of office, and do whatever we need with Congress and te AF to get our tapes to read 'USAF Aux.'  or something close.  Once that is done, we forget all about uniform/name/public image changes and work on revamping our internal structure, PME and training programs so that we actually live up to the name. 
JMHO

Discuss

[JohnKachenmeister]

Great. Make the name tapes even longer. They barely fit over the pocket now

Sure Dave...

Crack on long name tapes to guy named "Kachenmeister!"

[JohnKachenmeister]

At my very first encampment, in 1964, one of our Air Force speakers called us that... The United States Civil Air Patrol.

We just thought he was strange.

Turns out now that he's a prophet.

I guess the flag on the sleeve isn't enough?

[JohnKachenmeister]

And what... this set's us apart from all the other Civil Air Patrol's out there?

Cause ya know, I'd hate to get confused with the Canadian and Mexican Civil Air Patrol's. 

Or worse, the Guatamalan Civil Air Patrol 

Australia has a Civil Air Patrol.  No kidding.

[lordmonar]

Quote: Lost in all the hootin' and hollerin' about this proposal is this question:

What difference does it make?

Civil Air Patrol ... U.S. Civil Air Patrol ... it's still the same organization.  And we all know that calling a tail a leg does not make the name fit.

Methinks we're getting worked up over a tiny item.  Your mileage may vary.

Discuss.

Jack
* * * * * *

Colonel Jack -- methinks that the hooting, hollaring, and getting worked up over a tiny item is more of a reaction to the way and by whom this change was presented.

I think that if the NB suggested the Sun was going to rise in the East tomorrow there would be people on this board that would jump up and down and raise a stink over it.

----They forgot an important button on the poll.......I Don't Care.  What I wear on my BDU does not make any difference about what job I do or how I do it.

If you really feel so strongly....contact your wing commander and have him suggest to resend it next NB.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Actually, the digits (note spelling  ) were simply derived from an alphabetical listing of the states. The initial list was made prior to 1958, so Alaska and Hawai'i aren't numbered in sequence. Also, I don't remember where DC and PR fit in, either.

After doing a list, it looks like DCWG (actually National Capitol Wing) was in the original list, but I don't have enough info at hand to figure out PR. If someone from any one of these wings (RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VT, VA, WA, WV, WI, WY) could give me the old number, I can figure out the rest.

The REAL old numbers come from the days after World War II.  The original Regions were numbered.  Ohio was "51," or the 1st Wing organized in the 5th Region.  Michigan was 62, and Wisconsin, I think, was 63.  Some of the wings still have these original numbers on their patches.

[RiverAux]

Okay, the other thing I haven't figured out is a small logic flaw here....  IF we're going to put it on BDU name tapes (I assume both BDU and BBDU -- don't recall if a distinction was made in the resolution), should we also be changing it on the nametags for the service dress, corporate uniform, etc? 

The only reason not to that I can come up with is that the BDU uniform is the only one we have that doesn't have US Air Force Auxiliary on the name badge or otherwise have U.S. somewhere on it.  In fact, the BDU is the uniform we have that currently has the LEAST obvious affiliation with the US military. 

How about this as an alternative for the BDU that is in the spirit of our name badges:

CIVIL AIR PATROL
U.S. AIR FORCE AUXILIARY

A double-decker name tape would look a bit odd, but at least would be consistent and accurate (well at least as accurate as putting it on the name badges). 

[LtCol White]

Great. Make the name tapes even longer. They barely fit over the pocket now

Sure Dave...

Crack on long name tapes to guy named "Kachenmeister!"

Sorry, Was referring to the fact that the current CAP strip barely fits but I guess you have the same prob with your name strip. At least your name strip can't be helped.

[A.Member]

I think that if the NB suggested the Sun was going to rise in the East tomorrow there would be people on this board that would jump up and down and raise a stink over it.

----They forgot an important button on the poll.......I Don't Care.  What I wear on my BDU does not make any difference about what job I do or how I do it.

If you really feel so strongly....contact your wing commander and have him suggest to resend it next NB.

It's not this change in and of itself.  It's the culmination of changes, particularly without discussion or membership input.  It's the straw that broke the camel's back.  This particular issue, like the TPU, is representative of much of what we've seen over the last year or so from NHQ - it's a solution in search of a problem.

There is no National focus on those missions you elude to.  And the displeasure with the "leadership" will be escalated by this member.

[RiverAux]

You would think that something like this could at least have been put on the public agenda.  It was in the Uniform Committee report, which should have been part of the agenda.  So essentially it was sprung on people with no warning at the meeting itself. 

[DNall]

----They forgot an important button on the poll.......I Don't Care.  What I wear on my BDU does not make any difference about what job I do or how I do it.

The perception of professionalism drawn from professional appearance & franklly a degree of confusion with the military by outsiders does dramatically effect what missions you are allowed to do, not to mention the duties you are assigned on those missions. Lokking like a clown doesn't help.

[Johnny Yuma]

I've now received fairly reliable information that during a recent missing airplane search, MG Pineda ordered that "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" be used in the press releases associated with that mission -- and not just in the header, but in the body of the text of the release.  So, I think he is looking to actually change the name of the organization, but just hasn't bothered to do it the right way yet. 

Now, have we even changed our own rules to allow for the use of U.S. Civil Air Patrol?  No, not at all.  See the CAP Constitution:

ARTICLE II
NAME AND STATUS
The name of the Corporation shall be "Civil Air Patrol" and its status is that of the volunteer civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force. The Corporation may also be referred to as "Civil Air Patrol" or by such other titles as may be approved in the Bylaws.

and

SECTION 2
NAME AND CORPORATE SEAL
2.1 The name of Civil Air Patrolmay be stated by any of the following:
a. "Civil Air Patrol"
b. "Civil Air Patrol, incorporated under Special Act of Congress approved July 1, 1946, Public Law 476, 79th Congress"
2.2 Each unit, including National Headquarters, shall use a name expressing its designation, the words "Civil Air Patrol" and may also refer to its status as the United States Air Force Auxiliary as set forth in regulations.

Clearly, the use of any name other than Civil Air Patrol needs to be approved in the Constitution and Bylaws. 

You really think Little Fidel is going to let the RULES get in his way???

[O-Rex]

Yadda-yadda-yadda. . . .

I think that both we, and the NB should concentrate on things that add value to our organization, and our membership experience.