New CAP Governance Structure

[Ned]

I think we would all probably agree that the whole purpose of organizations above the squadron level is for "command and control" of the organizaton as a whole, and that all things being equal, subordinate commanders should probably command and control roughly the same number of members and corporate assets based on well-known principles like Span of Control ,etc.

There are a lot of historical and geographical reasons that we break up the regions the way we do.  While it never hurts to periodically review such things, I haven't heard any significant issues developing about whether wing X should be in Region A or Region B.  It just doesn't appear to be a problem.

Obviously, our wings vary signficantly along many dimensions - geographical size, population, demographics, terrain, etc.  And some of you recognize the traditional arguments about "why should SDWG be treated like FLWG (a colonel commanding and -- under the old governance scheme -- the same number of votes at the NB, various committees, etc.)

But the real world must often trump ideal organizational charts.  And one of the primary reasons to retain the state=wing organization pattern is the not inconsiderable amount of money that state governments appropriate for CAP.  While many - if not most - wings do not receive direct funding, all of it would come to a halt if we decoupled the wing/state paradigm.  The California Legislature is simply not going to appropriate money for the Cal-Nev Wing, even if we explain things like how one of the primary challenges is the Sierra Nevada mountains that are shared by both states.

(Interestingly enough, there is at least one squadron located in California, made up mostly of Californians, that is a Nevada Wing unit.    Shhhhh.)

[RiverAux]

While many - if not most - wings do not receive direct funding

Last time I checked the annual reports about 2/3 of wings reported receiving state funding. 

[PHall]

While many - if not most - wings do not receive direct funding

Last time I checked the annual reports about 2/3 of wings reported receiving state funding.

In the current economic climate, I seriously doubt 2/3 of the wings are getting state funding right now.

[Eclipse]

In the current economic climate, I seriously doubt 2/3 of the wings are getting state funding right now.

Define "funding" - while not all get cash, a lot get facilities, services, fuel, or similar.

[RiverAux]

Well, without going through every individual 2012 state report (thanks to the idiotic decision to do away with real annual reports), I can say that in 2011 total state appropriations for CAP across the country were 2.9 million dollars down from 3.9 million dollars according to the 2008 annual report. 

[sardak]

And that $2.9 million was the total of 33 wings, or the 2/3 you mentioned in a prior post. I had already gone through the individual reports for my other stats on wing size vs. population.

Mike

[RiverAux]

Thanks Mike, you've got more patience than I do.

[ZigZag911]

Real world or not, I still consider it ridiculous that a wing commander with 4 squadrons and 150 members is a colonel, and a group commander with 8 squadrons and 500 plus members is a major or lt col...granting all Ned's points, I still think it's crazy...sorry!

[LGM30GMCC]

As has been pointed out, the money issue is likely what keeps states aligned as wings. Otherwise it would make more sense to do it by X number of people/units comprises a wing. And rather than name them, just number them. (Gee, whoever does something like that)

Regions could also be numbered and there ya have it. Poof. MAJCOM like structure. But the issue of money likely keeps it where it is.

As for grade, yeah some group CCs definitely have enough folks to be equivalent to a Wg/CC in terms of grade. There was a difference before that Wing/CCs were all corporate officers and voting members as the NB. As that paradigm no longer exists, it is something that could be looked at perhaps. *shrug*

[bosshawk]

Just remember that, in CAP, grade means absolutely nothing except that the holder has or has not progressed through the PD system or has a grade authorized based on some outside qualifications.  The fact that Wing CCs are colonels is a means of denoting his/her making it to some noted position(?).

In my 18 years in CAP, I often was on the verge of upchucking when I looked at a CAP colonel and then thought about what it took me to get mine.

[lordmonar]

While many - if not most - wings do not receive direct funding

Last time I checked the annual reports about 2/3 of wings reported receiving state funding.

In the current economic climate, I seriously doubt 2/3 of the wings are getting state funding right now.

I would not be too suprised that they still do get some sort of funding....above and beyond support like free license plates, use of state facilities ect.

[PHall]

While many - if not most - wings do not receive direct funding

Last time I checked the annual reports about 2/3 of wings reported receiving state funding.

In the current economic climate, I seriously doubt 2/3 of the wings are getting state funding right now.

I would not be too suprised that they still do get some sort of funding....above and beyond support like free license plates, use of state facilities ect.

For which we pay for. In California we don't even get the "military" rate...

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

In my 18 years in CAP, I often was on the verge of upchucking when I looked at a CAP colonel and then thought about what it took me to get mine.

Congratulations on the effort it took you to get O-6 in the US Army. Thank you for your service.

I assume you have the same nausea when you see a Salvation Army Col or an honorary Col from some of our southern states.

[bosshawk]

Phil: I guess that I didn't word my post too well: what I should have said was that "certain" CAP Colonels cause me to get nearly sick.  Not all, because some of the guys and gals whom I have met earned their positions through hard work and accomplishments.  Having left CAP, at least in part, because of two of these "phony" Colonels, I have nothing but contempt for the system and the way that it is implimented.

Enough about me, lets start a uniform argument.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I can see where "a CAP colonel" could mean a specific one (or ones).

Not interested in a uniform argument. Currently have met my quota for the decade.

[bosshawk]

OK: no uniform arguments.  Since I stashed my golf shirts and flight suits in a plastic box, I don't have much interest in CAP uniforms: never did.

[Jon Knapp]

This might be slightly off topic...but could somebody explain the differences between this structure and the old structure...from the looks of this, I don't think to much could go wrong.

Thanks in advance!

[RRLE]

could somebody explain the differences between this structure and the old structure

In simple terms - they changed the butts that must be kissed and apparently made the kissing a little more private then in the past.

Most organizational changes of this sort amount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

The USCG Aux recently completed a similar but almost top to bottom overall of its organizational structure. It took three years - all sorts of promises were made about it aligning the Aux more closely with the USCG - yadda, yadda, yadda. Down at the deckplate, where the (in CAP terms) the rubber meets the tarmac - nothing changed. There isn't any more morale then before. No clearer vision. Just a lot of doorplates, business cards and stationary got changed. That change occured about 3 years after the previous change that promised the same thing.

Don't expect much and you will not be disappointed.

[Jon Knapp]

Thanks!.

[ZigZag911]

I have to disagree with those viewing this as "rearranging deck chairs".

Removing the selection of the National CC by the National Board ends the paradox of the commander needing to curry favor with subordinates to receive command.

Making the National CV an appointed post without defined term ends the ridiculous annual election and its attendant politicking.

Are the BOG members above the influence of others?  Certainly not, they are, after all, people...but the majority of the BOG members are not CAP members, so hopefully will approach making the choice of a national commander in a somewhat more objective manner.