Civil Air Patrol Accidents/Equipment Losses Member Assessments Summary?

[RADIOMAN015]

Gee, I thought about a year or so ago, CAP was going to publish for the membership statistics on members assessments for accidents, etc.  Don't recall seeing any reports to the membership yet.

What would be interesting to see is outlined below:

Total Accidents Incidents:  (Aircraft) (Vehicles)
Total Accident/Repair Costs  (Aircraft)  (Vehicles)
Total Assessments Costs to Members:  (Aircraft (Vehicles)
Total Type I (Incident #'s & Dollar Value)  (Aircraft) (Vehicles)
Total Type II (as above)
Total Type II (as above)

Total Equipment Losses Incidents:   Comm Equipment Other Equip.
Total Dollar Value Equipment Loss/Repair  Comm Equipment , Other Equipment
Total Assessment Costs To Members:

This of course would be cummulative to date by Fiscal Year

Now that's what I would call transparancy to the member :angel:

If National headquarters won't publish this to the membership, than I would ask what are you hiding
RM
                                       

[Major Carrales]

I guess we could start the "transparency" with you adding your identity to the signature line.

[Short Field]

Would it change the truth of what he is saying?

[Major Carrales]

Would it change the truth of what he is saying?

Motive is key to understanding what people post.  Those that demand transparency need to be transparent themselves.

In anycase, mishaps are regularly reported in the Sentinel (as well as in the media when they happen).

I can speculate and opine that this fellow and those like him likely have a problem with CAP's policy on making users responsible for accidents they cause.

What are they hiding?  In don't know, what are you that don't publish your names hiding?  Statements suggesting impropriety like such often send the signal that there is some agenda at work.  Why?  Because a person who truly was being the "White Night" would work through CAP's chain of command instead of posting such up on a forum like this.

[davidsinn]

Gee, I thought about a year or so ago, CAP was going to publish for the membership statistics on members assessments for accidents, etc.  Don't recall seeing any reports to the membership yet.

What would be interesting to see is outlined below:

Total Accidents Incidents:  (Aircraft) (Vehicles)
Total Accident/Repair Costs  (Aircraft)  (Vehicles)
Total Assessments Costs to Members:  (Aircraft (Vehicles)
Total Type I (Incident #'s & Dollar Value)  (Aircraft) (Vehicles)
Total Type II (as above)
Total Type II (as above)

Total Equipment Losses Incidents:   Comm Equipment Other Equip.
Total Dollar Value Equipment Loss/Repair  Comm Equipment , Other Equipment
Total Assessment Costs To Members:

This of course would be cummulative to date by Fiscal Year

Now that's what I would call transparancy to the member :angel:

If National headquarters won't publish this to the membership, than I would ask what are you hiding
RM
                                       

When was the last time you posted something positive about the organization? I'm really tired of your complaining. Why don't you quit if you hate it so much? I challenge you to go a full week with out posting a negative comment. I don't think you can do it.

[RADIOMAN015]

Gee, I thought about a year or so ago, CAP was going to publish for the membership statistics on members assessments for accidents, etc.  Don't recall seeing any reports to the membership yet.

When was the last time you posted something positive about the organization? I'm really tired of your complaining. Why don't you quit if you hate it so much? I challenge you to go a full week with out posting a negative comment. I don't think you can do it.

Here's something very positive ---- just got back from prepositioning myself for a UDF mission at the local airport (I gave them a call to let them know I'd be over shortly after monitoring some ATC radio traffic indicating an ELT signal at the airport).  Didn't want to wait very long --- So  took out the DF equipment and actually did a bit of DF'ing and than called the control tower to confirm they weren't hearing any more signal, either was I.  Back home now ready for captalk :angel:   Isn't that what CAP is all about
RM 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Gee, I thought about a year or so ago, CAP was going to publish for the membership statistics on members assessments for accidents, etc.  Don't recall seeing any reports to the membership yet.

When was the last time you posted something positive about the organization? I'm really tired of your complaining. Why don't you quit if you hate it so much? I challenge you to go a full week with out posting a negative comment. I don't think you can do it.

Here's something very positive ---- just got back from prepositioning myself for a UDF mission at the local airport (I gave them a call to let them know I'd be over shortly after monitoring some ATC radio traffic indicating an ELT signal at the airport).  Didn't want to wait very long --- So  took out the DF equipment and actually did a bit of DF'ing and than called the control tower to confirm they weren't hearing any more signal, either was I.  Back home now ready for captalk :angel:   Isn't that what CAP is all about
RM 

So you self-deployed without a mission number? That's great!

[RADIOMAN015]

When was the last time you posted something positive about the organization? I'm really tired of your complaining. Why don't you quit if you hate it so much? I challenge you to go a full week with out posting a negative comment. I don't think you can do it.

Here's something very positive ---- just got back from prepositioning myself for a UDF mission at the local airport (I gave them a call to let them know I'd be over shortly after monitoring some ATC radio traffic indicating an ELT signal at the airport).  Didn't want to wait very long --- So  took out the DF equipment and actually did a bit of DF'ing and than called the control tower to confirm they weren't hearing any more signal, either was I.  Back home now ready for captalk :angel:   Isn't that what CAP is all about
RM 

So you self-deployed without a mission number? That's great!

I can almost throw a rock at the security gate at the airport from where I live (and our squadron hq with the equipment is located), so it isn't a big thing to me (if it was a greater distance I definitely would not have driven there without a mission number).   The appropriate CAP leadership knew I was going over to the squadron.
I always like the opportunity to "test" our DF gear & wave at the guys in the control tower (and for the record I actually wore by Blue BDU's and not my golf shirt & grey pants )  How's that for even more positive news :angel:
RM     

[RADIOMAN015]

Would it change the truth of what he is saying?

In anycase, mishaps are regularly reported in the Sentinel (as well as in the media when they happen).

I can speculate and opine that this fellow and those like him likely have a problem with CAP's policy on making users responsible for accidents they cause.

What are they hiding?  In don't know, what are you that don't publish your names hiding?  Statements suggesting impropriety like such often send the signal that there is some agenda at work.  Why?  Because a person who truly was being the "White Night" would work through CAP's chain of command instead of posting such up on a forum like this.

Look I'm working hard on getting promoted to Lieutenant Colonel -- before we move to FL -- do you think I want to deep six my chances on this
Assessment stats with the specifics data elements indicated would be very interesting to know for the membership.  Also what would be interesting to know is what's are "true" active membership figures for us?
RM

[Major Carrales]

Would it change the truth of what he is saying?

In anycase, mishaps are regularly reported in the Sentinel (as well as in the media when they happen).

I can speculate and opine that this fellow and those like him likely have a problem with CAP's policy on making users responsible for accidents they cause.

What are they hiding?  In don't know, what are you that don't publish your names hiding?  Statements suggesting impropriety like such often send the signal that there is some agenda at work.  Why?  Because a person who truly was being the "White Night" would work through CAP's chain of command instead of posting such up on a forum like this.

Look I'm working hard on getting promoted to Lieutenant Colonel -- before we move to FL -- do you think I want to deep six my chances on this
Assessment stats with the specifics data elements indicated would be very interesting to know for the membership.  Also what would be interesting to know is what's are "true" active membership figures for us?
RM

Why not make an official request for said orders to be released?  Surely CAP Safety can generate them for us all.

[Eclipse]

Look I'm working hard on getting promoted to Lieutenant Colonel -- before we move to FL -- do you think I want to deep six my chances on this

Admitting at least that your attitude and agenda would likely be viewed negatively by your superiors, which is the point of Maj. C's comment

Assessment stats with the specifics data elements indicated would be very interesting to know for the membership.

Interesting to whom and to what end? Knowing the mishap trend should and won't influence the way a rank-and-file member conducts themselves, and be assured those who need the information have it.

[RADIOMAN015]

Look I'm working hard on getting promoted to Lieutenant Colonel -- before we move to FL -- do you think I want to deep six my chances on this

Admitting at least that your attitude and agenda would likely be viewed negatively by your superiors, which is the point of Maj. C's comment
Well I want to further my "career" in CAP.  I love CAP, it's CAP, CAP, CAP, everywhere.  Ready to go at a moments notice  

Assessment stats with the specifics data elements indicated would be very interesting to know for the membership.

Interesting to whom and to what end? Knowing the mishap trend should and won't influence the way a rank-and-file member conducts themselves, and be assured those who need the information have it.

Ahh, your from the "I got a secret" and I won't tell you faction of CAP    As I said before if CAP has nothing to hide they should release those speciific stats to the general membership to assist the membership in their personal risk management planning  :angel:  I'm working on my PHD in Business, so I know know the importance of these stats   
RM

[Stonewall]

Look I'm working hard on getting promoted to Lieutenant Colonel -- before we move to FL -- do you think I want to deep six my chances on this

Where in FL?  You're a major?

[Eclipse]

As I said before if CAP has nothing to hide they should release those speciific stats to the general membership to assist the membership in their personal risk management planning I'm working on my PHD in Business, so I know know the importance of these stats

Statistics out of context and exposed to people who have no influence in the remediation are worthless for anything but water-cooler
gnashing.

Knowing there were "x" vehicle incidents in a given year will have no influence on whether you, personally, have an accident.

[Short Field]

What are they hiding?  In don't know, what are you that don't publish your names hiding? 

The specific details on specific incidents to avoid hurting other peoples feelings....  There have been a couple of threads on this subject.

[Major Carrales]

What are they hiding?  I don't know, what are you that don't publish your names hiding? 

The specific details on specific incidents to avoid hurting other peoples feelings....  There have been a couple of threads on this subject.

Accident details are presented in CAP publications and discussed at CAP Meetings regularly in CAP via the CAP Safety Program, dagerous conditions are mitigated and a healthy ORM system allows everyone to assess their own OPERATIONAL RISKS.  What more is needed?  As Eclipse said, knowing the numbers of an occurance will do little to prevent it.

As for the parade of "no-namers," be advised that failing to sign your name to your words relegates even good points to rumor and "I heard, from somebody that some other person in another wing said that this was this and that was that."   It is more ripe for the spread of mis-information than the truth.

[caphornbuckle]

Wing Safety Directors sometimes keep statistics to track frequent mishaps and give some preventative measures to members throughout their wing.  They might be able to shed some light on what goes on within your wing.  Members in Hawaii don't need to know about a CAP vehicle taking out a telephone pole sliding around on ice in Maine, for example.  If it is kept more inner-wing, it has a better chance of applying to the members than having National track it.

Of course I am also talking about a very generic report (such as what I said above about the CAP vehicle) than disclosing information about time, place, who was involved.

[tsrup]

CAP reported accidents and incidents always had a few slides at our Wing Conference.  Usually as a "hey you managed to not screw anything up as much as last year" kind of thing.

The numbers are there and they are being relayed to those who care to know. 

Ask the right people and you'll them without all the FOUO conspiracy that your rambling about.

[Eclipse]

Commanders in each respective wing have access to the 79's which show the full details of mishaps and remediation.

[RiverAux]

Seems like the stats mentioned are just the sort of thing you would want to be conveying to the members either to congratulate them on improving or to emphasize that there is still a lot of work to do. 

[jimmydeanno]

I don't think that the average CAP member, needs, wants, or even cares about reports of this nature.  What they need is the processed information. 

"During FY08, Civil Air Patrol experienced a loss of X dollars because of X type of incident.  In order to reduce the number of these type of incidents, we've instituted these policies and these training requirements.

What am I going to do with a bunch of numbers?  "Oh, we had 35 aircraft incidents last year and it cost us money.  I guess we should be more careful with our planes."  That's about all I can do with it.

[caphornbuckle]

Perhaps this will help a little:

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Nat_CC__EX_NB_2010_7402675AFD3F5.ppt#357,4,Slide 4

[a2capt]

So, you self deployed, was that CAP's equipment, or yours?

I know, I know .. you're gonna say you were testing it. Yeah, yeah .. smells like a duck, walks like a duck.. trolls like a duck.

Must be a duck.

Good luck with that promotion. If they only knew how unhappy you are with the organization, you'd never get it. Maybe some more of your unit needs to start visiting the forums.

[JC004]

They are clearly hiding something.  I know what it is.  It is cake.  I hear that they have chocolate, vanilla, AND ice cream cake.  I'm really kind of annoyed about the ice cream cake because I want some. 

Perhaps this will help a little:

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Nat_CC__EX_NB_2010_7402675AFD3F5.ppt#357,4,Slide 4

I just realized that this uses mostly the command patch instead of the Triangle Thingy.  Outstanding. 

[AirDX]

just got back from prepositioning myself for a UDF mission at the local airport

Nice.  Crap like that gives CAP a bad name.  I was a controller for 25 years, and nothing generates more eye rolling than the CAP/USCGAUX or whoever self-dispatching to some imagined incident.  There are procedures that are followed, let them take their course. 

[SarDragon]

They are clearly hiding something.  I know what it is.  It is cake.  I hear that they have chocolate, vanilla, AND ice cream cake.  I'm really kind of annoyed about the ice cream cake because I want some. 

Perhaps this will help a little:

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Nat_CC__EX_NB_2010_7402675AFD3F5.ppt#357,4,Slide 4

I just realized that this uses mostly the command patch instead of the Triangle Thingy.  Outstanding.

The cake is a lie.

[a2capt]

The cake is a lie.

But but.. but..
http://www.thefump.com/fump.php?id=1214 <-- Click Play


Looking at those numbers is interesting. MX costs, 1/3rd? Just goes to prove you can skew results any direction you want. Just pick what you want to add and leave off the rest. Centralized MX really saved this much? Come on.

[Eclipse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2QJvc_SxFQ

[a2capt]

Where in FL?  You're a major?

So, you look for a unit that is "about three hours" from Leominster, MA, that meets on an airfield that has a tower, that is in the North East Region, who has an ES roster that contains a someone with perhaps comm, UDF/GT ratings with rank of Maj. North Andover might be a choice, as one of the units on the MAWG PAO page that says it meets at an airport thats not within the distance of a 100 hamburger from Leominster. Except that airport has no tower. If we look outside the wing box, there's Albany, (Latham) - the Group HQ, senior Sq. and Cadet Sq. all meet in the same place, in the northeast quadrant of the airport and there are houses nearby.

CAP isn't that small that someone can't figure out who someone else is with a little bit of process of elimination.

There are probably a few others, granted- a "pinhead map" of CAP units would make it easier.


EDIT:
Looking south, there is Westover Composite Sq., and while that is half of the "3 hour" distance to the NER conference by GoogleMath, figuring in real world traffic, that could be it, especially when reference was made that fit that surrounding pertaining to their meeting place.

[MSG Mac]

Deleted wrong information

[G+10]

Much of that was reported in this month's "Safety Beacon" (last page)

John Gniewkowski

[Short Field]

As for the parade of "no-namers," be advised that failing to sign your name to your words relegates even good points to rumor and "I heard, from somebody that some other person in another wing said that this was this and that was that."   It is more ripe for the spread of mis-information than the truth.

If it really bothers you, then PM me for details.  However, your comments are totally bogus.  Just having a name - unless you are in a national position of power - does nothing for the credibility of the words.  The truthfulness of what people post here becomes apparent the more they post.  Words should stand on their own - not depend on the name of the person who posted them.  Posters develop their own reps on this board. 

If I posted my name - then maybe 10 more people would know who I am than the 20 or so on the board who currently know.  So what difference does it make.  A rose by any other name....

[cap235629]

Where in FL?  You're a major?

So, you look for a unit that is "about three hours" from Leominster, MA, that meets on an airfield that has a tower, that is in the North East Region, who has an ES roster that contains a someone with perhaps comm, UDF/GT ratings with rank of Maj. North Andover might be a choice, as one of the units on the MAWG PAO page that says it meets at an airport thats not within the distance of a 100 hamburger from Leominster. Except that airport has no tower. If we look outside the wing box, there's Albany, (Latham) - the Group HQ, senior Sq. and Cadet Sq. all meet in the same place, in the northeast quadrant of the airport and there are houses nearby.

CAP isn't that small that someone can't figure out who someone else is with a little bit of process of elimination.

There are probably a few others, granted- a "pinhead map" of CAP units would make it easier.


EDIT:
Looking south, there is Westover Composite Sq., and while that is half of the "3 hour" distance to the NER conference by GoogleMath, figuring in real world traffic, that could be it, especially when reference was made that fit that surrounding pertaining to their meeting place.

Hanscom Composite Squadron

[Major Carrales]

As for the parade of "no-namers," be advised that failing to sign your name to your words relegates even good points to rumor and "I heard, from somebody that some other person in another wing said that this was this and that was that."   It is more ripe for the spread of mis-information than the truth.

If it really bothers you, then PM me for details.  However, your comments are totally bogus.  Just having a name - unless you are in a national position of power - does nothing for the credibility of the words.  The truthfulness of what people post here becomes apparent the more they post.  Words should stand on their own - not depend on the name of the person who posted them.  Posters develop their own reps on this board. 

If I posted my name - then maybe 10 more people would know who I am than the 20 or so on the board who currently know.  So what difference does it make.  A rose by any other name....

Sorry, I don't believe in ghosts or their agendas.  And that is the point.  If you can't stand behind your words...then they have no meaning.  Now, they may have a purpose...and that might be to disrupt. 

[Short Field]

If you can't stand behind your words...then they have no meaning.  Now, they may have a purpose...and that might be to disrupt.

So, no PM and a flip off remark.  Oops, my mistake, my words have no meaning...

[Major Carrales]

If you can't stand behind your words...then they have no meaning.  Now, they may have a purpose...and that might be to disrupt.

So, no PM and a flip off remark.  Oops, my mistake, my words have no meaning...

You have also sent no PM...which is what you should have done instead of "grandstand."

[SarDragon]

Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

[JC004]

Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

Where's the little clock?

[Eclipse]

Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

Where's the little clock?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEbgBKV4_Mk

[SarDragon]

Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

Where's the little clock?

Too lazy to figure out which file it is on my web space.

[JC004]

Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

Where's the little clock?

Too lazy to figure out which file it is on my web space.

Agh.  I have been waiting for it in particular.