Force protection and armed CAP members

[Rotorhead]

Because of drug gangs and the shootings, and the related violence; in our squadron, when we put a ground team out on a beacon search, the local sheriff is contacted just before we enter their respective county.  We request a uniformed deputy to be assigned to travel with each team.

Then the GT members don't need weapons at all.

Good idea.

[Gunner C]

Each GTL should do a threat analysis.  If there's a serious threat, don't go.  Period.  Let the sheriff's dept do it.

[lordmonar]

I love the head in the sand approach.

This is not a head in the sand approach.  I just don't see the need.  The threat of a possible attacker against a ground team or some terrorist agains a soft CAP target is less then the thread of an accidential discharge IMHO.

It is as simple as that.

Now where you live things may be different and maybe I would rethink things or make different arrangements.

Bottom line....I am not comfortable with the idea of allowing just anyone to CCW or Open Carry in CAP.

[RRLE]

We really had better hope that there aren't any weirdo nutjobs out there who hate the government and like reading government forums looking for weaknesses. We just spent 11 pages telling anyone out there that we are completely defenseless in reality and in fact are mostly opposed to defending ourselves. We don't even have a theoretical deterrent, NONE of us have firearms and they know it.

I know some of you hate the analogy but the USCG Auxiliary has been having the same arguement on very public forums ever since 9/11. And for the units in South Florida, they are more likely to come into contact with the bad guys then CAP is. That is because they patrol the ocean and ICW routes used by the bad guys coming in from the Bahamas and Cuba. And how many Auxies have been shot at, killed or injuried by the drug and human smugglers since 9/11?

NONE.

[Short Field]

Usually, when we enter counties which have drug issues, not only will a deputy show up to assist, the sheriff himself will show up along with the county judge. 

I guess that is so they can get the warrant on the spot?

Now ask yourself who will provide the force protection for your team.  Also, start thinking in terms of protection of you and your family.  Keep in mind that CAP and the USAF is not looking out for your individual protection, only for their own corporate legal liability exposure in litigation.  You are responsible for you......and your team.......and your family.

You seriously need to think about moving to someplace safer - like east LA. 

If the ORM has the risk too high to go, then DON'T GO.  Sounds like the area you live in needs Bradley Fighting Vehicles instead of vans.  If the bad guys are that bad, a couple of pistols on a ground team are not going to do much good.

[Gunner C]

+1

Anyone know how to break contact?  Maybe 5 or 6 of us.  If not, weapons of any sort won't do you a bit of good. 

[lordmonar]

+1

Anyone know how to break contact?  Maybe 5 or 6 of us.  If not, weapons of any sort won't do you a bit of good.

Open up with the 60 while the most foward units pull back.  Once they have cover they open up with their 16's until the 60 crew is able to pull back.

If you got any Smoke, Arty, or Air support all the better.

[tarheel gumby]

I think it has been too long for a lot of us to remember, which way do we run to the sound of the guns or away?

[tarheel gumby]

Each GTL should do a threat analysis.  If there's a serious threat, don't go.  Period.  Let the sheriff's dept do it.

I agree whole heartily........ let the LEO's handle the heavy stuff that's how er do it in EMS, if the scene ain't safe don't go in

[wuzafuzz]

I was assaulted just yesterday on a ground team mission. 

It was a dog...he just wanted to say hi to anyone on his dirt road.   

If he had been armed we could have been in deep since we were 30 miles from population!
http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/dog.JPG

[PHall]

I was assaulted just yesterday on a ground team mission. 

It was a dog...he just wanted to say hi to anyone on his dirt road.   

If he had been armed we could have been in deep since we were 30 miles from population!
http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/dog.JPG

Just carry a can of Wasp spray. It will take down a Pit Bull at 30 feet if you can hit him in the mouth with the stream. And since he has his mouth open while he's barking at you that shouldn't be much of a problem.

Of course after you take out "Spike" you'll have to deal with the owner.

[JayT]

Each GTL should do a threat analysis.  If there's a serious threat, don't go.  Period.  Let the sheriff's dept do it.

I agree whole heartily........ let the LEO's handle the heavy stuff that's how er do it in EMS, if the scene ain't safe don't go in

New York State law prohibits firearms on ambulances. Technically, even if a cop is driving a bus for the police ambulance bureau, he's/she's suppose to turn over his weapon to another officer or otherwise secure it for the ride (doesn't happen, but its still the law.)

So, are some of you guys saying that a CAP Ground Team is in more danger then an EMS crew on the average? I'm willing to beat I'm exposed to more danger, and I feel no need for a weapon.

[wingnut55]

what they tell us on the border:  "Evade and escape"      

[AirDX]

Open up with the 60 while the most foward units pull back.  Once they have cover they open up with their 16's until the 60 crew is able to pull back.

Chuck a few M15 WP grenades in the direction of the bad guys while you're at at it, tends to distract them a bit.

[desertengineer1]

By allowing personally owned weapons anywhere near a CAP mission, the liability will be excruciating.  We have too many knuckleheads in the mix as it is.  Letting them have guns is just plain stupid.

[Major Lord]

"New York State law prohibits firearms on ambulances. Technically, even if a cop is driving a bus for the police ambulance bureau, he's/she's suppose to turn over his weapon to another officer or otherwise secure it for the ride (doesn't happen, but its still the law.)"

If you transport a Prisoner you don't have armed corrections officers on board? Pulling prisoners out of San Quentin, we would always have an armed correctional officer and a chase car literally riding shotgun.....even if the prisoner was "mostly" dead, and chained to the gurney. I have to admit that the idea of gunfire  in the rig seemed a little scary, what with the big cylinders of O2 and other medics!

Major Lord

[JayT]

"New York State law prohibits firearms on ambulances. Technically, even if a cop is driving a bus for the police ambulance bureau, he's/she's suppose to turn over his weapon to another officer or otherwise secure it for the ride (doesn't happen, but its still the law.)"

If you transport a Prisoner you don't have armed corrections officers on board? Pulling prisoners out of San Quentin, we would always have an armed correctional officer and a chase car literally riding shotgun.....even if the prisoner was "mostly" dead, and chained to the gurney. I have to admit that the idea of gunfire  in the rig seemed a little scary, what with the big cylinders of O2 and other medics!

Major Lord

In the county next to mine, where I work for a private services, prisoners are sent out on a police ambulance (in Nassau county, the NCPD Emergency Ambulance Bureau handles in the lion share of the EMS) with a police Ambulance Medical Technican with a PO driving and the POs partner riding shotgun behind. Like I said, their weapon is suppose to be secured. Suppose to be.

Besides, if someone goes nuts in the back of the rig, a gun isn't gonna help. A large flashlight, asp, or size twelve boot will do just fine, as will a size H O2 canister.

[tdepp]

By allowing personally owned weapons anywhere near a CAP mission, the liability will be excruciating.  We have too many knuckleheads in the mix as it is.  Letting them have guns is just plain stupid.

:clap:

[tsrup]

By allowing personally owned weapons anywhere near a CAP mission, the liability will be excruciating.  We have too many knuckleheads in the mix as it is.  Letting them have guns is just plain stupid.

So while I carry not in uniform I'm less of a knucklehead than if I was to be in uniform? 

Again my question posed is not so much of trying to become a deputy CAP vigilante/sheriff, but to exercise the same rights I do while not in uniform.  Quietly and Responsibly as in accordance with my state's law. 

[Gung Ho]

I was assaulted just yesterday on a ground team mission. 

It was a dog...he just wanted to say hi to anyone on his dirt road.   

If he had been armed we could have been in deep since we were 30 miles from population!
http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/dog.JPG

Just carry a can of Wasp spray. It will take down a Pit Bull at 30 feet if you can hit him in the mouth with the stream. And since he has his mouth open while he's barking at you that shouldn't be much of a problem.

Of course after you take out "Spike" you'll have to deal with the owner.

Check the laws on carrying WASP spray. If you have it on you just for protection and use it say good bye to your house and everything else you own because you will be sued