Did any one else have problems with the live feed for the NB. All I got this morning was the CAP Journal video feed.
Same for me...
They just put a notice up - NB starts at 1pm Eastern. CAP Journal until then.
Such a pity I'm not holed up back home Wisconsin, where it's &@$!!# $#!$@ degrees and there's 5-6 ft snowdrifts outside my door. I guess I'll have to miss the NB stream.
*Whatever else will I do in beautiful, sunny, balmy Lake Mary FL this afternoon? Hmmm... I think I'll look for houses! :) Gee, the flowers smell great here.
But you guys enjoy that intermittent Web stream. The choppy audio promises to be awesome! :D
*erm... in case folks just think I'm being a choad for the sake of being a choad, that's only partially true. Go out and do something today!
Dude, if you're on vacation, get off CAP Talk already!
oh, this short amount of downtime is about all I've got today.
/me is outside, by the pool ...under palm trees that wave a gentle greeting "hello" in the nice warm sun.
Try and catch up with Kach for a brew, he's only a stones thow away.(watch out for flying rocks... :D)
Enjoy FL, we're having unseasonably cold weather today, currently 57 degrees at my location, hope that doesn't dampen your enjoyment :D
Better than my seasonably warm -8... >:(
But just out of curiosity can anyone help me out with a tech support issue.
How can I get Windows Media Player to not display video on my second monitor? Currently the WMP interface shows on one screen - including the smaller video in the box, but then displays the video simultaneously full screen on the second monitor... I can't seem to find the setting to shut that off - it makes it difficult to do CAP stuff at work when it does things like that...
It's on!
Anyone else notice she doesn't seem to wear the TPU anymore?
Ok...who's going to do 'play by play' and 'color commentary' since I can't get the stream through work.
i can try, right now it's just intros
OMG for once in all my time in CAP i've finally managed to secure the stream!...........Why am i so excited?!
roll call now
56,155 members in CAP
JROTC flights are approved by AF but word will get out soon as to when to start
Journey of Flight 2nd edition available as of January
cadet staff handbook and drill DVD coming to squadrons
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on February 29, 2008, 06:26:49 PM
OMG for once in all my time in CAP i've finally managed to secure the stream!...........Why am i so excited?!
I hope you raised the seat first. ;D
CAPF52 and 56? will be online
Quote from: tedda on February 29, 2008, 03:46:44 PM
oh, this short amount of downtime is about all I've got today.
/me is outside, by the pool ...under palm trees that wave a gentle greeting "hello" in the nice warm sun.
I wanted to go fly today but my poor kitty is in the hospital and I'm hoping he gets discharged this afternoon.
Quote from: Lancer on February 29, 2008, 06:35:11 PM
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on February 29, 2008, 06:26:49 PM
OMG for once in all my time in CAP i've finally managed to secure the stream!...........Why am i so excited?!
I hope you raised the seat first. ;D
If you have short stacks or low manifold pressure please taxi closer...
CAP Officer Basic Course to replace ECI13
SLS updated
revised CAPR 50-17
instructor course now online
Level one online
Quote from: flyerthom on February 29, 2008, 06:37:00 PM
Quote from: Lancer on February 29, 2008, 06:35:11 PM
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on February 29, 2008, 06:26:49 PM
OMG for once in all my time in CAP i've finally managed to secure the stream!...........Why am i so excited?!
I hope you raised the seat first. ;D
If you have short stacks or low manifold pressure please taxi closer...
:'( :'( :'( Dan no understand this particular pilot humor :'( :'( :'(
What's with the audio?
income
53% seniors dues
39% cadet dues
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on February 29, 2008, 06:35:45 PM
CAPF52 and 56? will be online
Sweet! Online milestone processing! Could the 56 be 66 (cadet master record)???
103 glass cockpits in field
69 new vehicles in 2007
my feed is perfect, let me know if you want me to continue or stop.
Quote from: CAPSGT on February 29, 2008, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on February 29, 2008, 06:35:45 PM
CAPF52 and 56? will be online
Sweet! Online milestone processing! Could the 56 be 66 (cadet master record)???
probably I wasn't too sure of second number but it had a 6
Ah! Talk about the new gocivilairpatrol site!
Goes live tomorrow!
gocivilairpatrol was taken down because" people had concerns about it"
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on February 29, 2008, 06:39:54 PM
CAP Officer Basic Course to replace ECI13
SLS updated
revised CAPR 50-17
instructor course now online
Level one online
I'll believe the Officer Basic Course when I actually see it published.
It's about time the SLS got updated. I'm interested to see how they've revised it.
50-17 revision was probably just updating it with the newer courses and such. I'm sure no major changes
march 1 for goCAP
http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com New Web site transfer in progress live 1 March. Will auto forward from cap.gov
Got it now, had to refresh..
GoCivilAirPatrol is live right now!
It'll be replacing "CAP.gov" more or less. Its live now, but after tomorrow it'll be pointed at cap.gov as well
Did he say "Build permanant meeting facilities"?
<edit>
He sure did. Talking about it now
</edit>
yep, "beyond 5 year plan"
Ah geez.
QuoteYOU WILL LIKE VANGAURD! YOU WILL LOVE IT! LOOOOOVE IIIIIIIIIITT!
vanguard "not a tax on our members"
"learning processes going on with vanguard"
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on February 29, 2008, 06:51:42 PM
vanguard "not a tax on our members"
He's right. Its merely a pox on our members.
You will use Vanguard ...or else
Quote from: NIN on February 29, 2008, 06:48:51 PM
It'll be replacing "CAP.gov" more or less. Its live now, but after tomorrow it'll be pointed at cap.gov as well
Doesn't seem like they fixed any of the things we pointed out. :-(
aug 6-9 national conference florida
"How to get more missions"
I can't wait for this!
CAP-USAF update:
"good news, bad news"
cap nhq building renovation fall 2008
"expect some turbulance"
moving hq to another building for 18 months
move is scheduled for October, don't expect hq to be very responsive during then
ROFLMAO
Good News: He's familiar with CAP
Bad News: He's familiar with CAP
Lt Gen Lorenz is geting promoted and taking charge of AETC
"good news: he knows cap
bad news: he knows cap"
how to get more missions:
non traditional customers
"worker bee" reps tell their bosses
more mission come from bottom up not top down
15 minute break
Haha, my wing CC is standing in front of the camera...
basically, do a good job then the higher ups in the other organizations will see and ask us to do more
Lancer, you get a feed or do you want me to keep going?
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on February 29, 2008, 07:05:36 PM
Lancer, you get a feed or do you want me to keep going?
Have at it, I'm still without feed...at least *should* be able to watch tomorrows. Thanks, I'm sure there are others who aren't getting the feed too... keep up the good work!
ISnt there a way where they can tack on more servers to open up more streams?
Yeah but if I remember correctly from the last broadcast, there are thousands already watching now. Increasing the capability means even more money and more effort. I connected to the stream about half an hour before it started and haven't had any problems so far (knock on wood)
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on February 29, 2008, 06:09:58 PM
Anyone else notice she doesn't seem to wear the TPU anymore?
She wore the TPU at FLWG conference last month.
Item 1 passed unanimous
Ahh they gave them voting cards to hold up
I thought they were bidding cards to buy a seat on the NB... >:D
"line of succession"
"national commander became unavailable to continue in his role"
Whoever is breathing into the mic seriously needs to stop...
They're talking about letting the acting national commander be able to select a vice commander. Talking about in now, voting tomorrow.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on February 29, 2008, 07:30:10 PM
Whoever is breathing into the mic seriously needs to stop...
They have darth vader sitting in on the meeting
2 proposals
1: At the next NB meeting after commander is gone, voting would be held for new commander
2: line of succession would be set up in line with how it is for US presidency
I liked how the Option A Colonel states that the major reason to have voting is so they don't get stuck with the CV so they can elect a new person. That sounds like a loophole to me that'll allow someone to bail out two weeks before the winter board. Being a member of the bylaws committee doesn't present a conflict of interest but I think that option A presents the possibility of a conflict of interest and allows for somone to sneak into the position. Rank of general or not, the position is what really matters, isn't it?
"both are equally acceptable" to constitution and bylaws committee
Interesting options, as they say, both have their merits.
Grr...I'm starting to lose my stream...
Tabled until tomorrow.
NIMS next
suggesting nims compliance this year with ICS 100, 200, 300, 700, 800
ICS 400 by september next year
oh no, the dreaded NIMS issue. I can feel the heat off the flamethrowers from here on the other side of the Potomac River.
another suggestion to make requirement date Sept 2009 in line with federal government
Amendment changing NIMS compliance date to the federal mandate date, now apparently Dec '09.
Quote from: CAPSGT on February 29, 2008, 07:48:25 PM
oh no, the dreaded NIMS issue. I can feel the heat off the flamethrowers from here on the other side of the Potomac River.
considering the weather it ought to feel nice, I may come over your way
i don't fully understand what they mean but it looks like the date will be pushed back to the federal date, don't quote me on it
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on February 29, 2008, 07:57:11 PM
i don't fully understand what they mean but it looks like the date will be pushed back to the federal date, don't quote me on it
That's my understanding. Now there discussing an amendment about who has to take ICS 300 and 400
The NIMS wording has been amended twice, once dealing with dates and another with certain higher level quals that would have ICS 400 as a recommendation and not a requirement.
motion carries
Now new comm curriculum.
so we're choosing not to have our mission staff be fully NIMS compliant -- 400 needs to be required for most all of these slots.
Quote from: RiverAux on February 29, 2008, 08:04:20 PM
so we're choosing not to have our mission staff be fully NIMS compliant -- 400 needs to be required for most all of these slots.
I heard PSC, OSC, and LO as not being required to have 400, there were 2 other quals included but I didn't catch them. Command staff would still need it.
Every time they vote, they cut away from the room to show just Courter. Do you think they are doing that on purpose to avoid criticism on the commanders?
Talking about giving level 4/5 credit for directing classes over 12 hours in length like TLC
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on February 29, 2008, 08:05:52 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on February 29, 2008, 08:04:20 PM
so we're choosing not to have our mission staff be fully NIMS compliant -- 400 needs to be required for most all of these slots.
I heard PSC, OSC, and LO as not being required to have 400, there were 2 other quals included but I didn't catch them. Command staff would still need it.
OSC, PSC, LSC, FASC, and IO would need IS-300 and IS-400 would be recommended for these, but not required.
IC, Safety, and Liasion officers (not Agency Liasion) would require IS-400.
being staff would give you credit that could be applied to level 4, if director that credit would go to level 5
Someone give me a linky for the feed, I can't find it!
Go to capchannel.com
mms://civilairpatrolnhq.wmlivesvc.vitalstreamcdn.com/live_civilairpatrolnhq_vitalstream_com_2008WB (http://mms://civilairpatrolnhq.wmlivesvc.vitalstreamcdn.com/live_civilairpatrolnhq_vitalstream_com_2008WB)
I like the camera angles.....we can finally see what is going on with the stream...
can anyone say ham sandwhich
motion passes
talking about mission pilot hours
Looks like I'm getting a star for my wings, if this motion passes.
This is cool. I'm watching from my room on the third floor.
It's very tempting to go downstairs, wander in front of the camera and wave. >:D
Ned Lee
Proposal would change hours required for pilot rating. Proposal's intent is to recognize those pilots who mainly fly CAP planes and aren't commercial type pilots that can rack up hours. The pilots are going back and fourth about total number of hours being more important vs recognizing those that who are lower hours but fly often with CAP.
It's interesting. The video is hella-choppy, but the audio is crystal clear.
national ops guy is chastising the proposal
Col Walling is definitely gunning for it, and has made some valid points. She called the things we wear on the uniform "Regalia"
MAWG/CC opposes (while wearing Command Pilot wings).
Yeah, the regalia thing was a little odd
I like the guys in the back camped by the coffee makers leaning back and watching the show
OKWG/CC just knowlingly said that his pilots wear an unauthorized patch on the pencil pocket, where the "morale patches" go.
Motion defeated. Ice cream break time.
pilot quals motion defeated
I WANT MY FAXIMILE ICE CREAM!
defeated.
I just have to say what a pleasure it is to see someone who is so competent leading our organization. She really is a stand out among the National Commanders I've seen.
Murph
So, after giving the professional pilots advanced rank upon joining CAP isn't enough, we need to basically restrict our highest pilot ratings to those who got paid to fly most of those hours.
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of our pilots by how many hours they have, and how many of those hours are CAP hours.
audio is still up
Quote from: Murph on February 29, 2008, 08:32:32 PM
I just have to say what a pleasure it is to see someone who is so competent leading our organization. She really is a stand out among the National Commanders I've seen.
Murph
Not to mention she has a sense of humor, refreshing.
Quote from: jeders on February 29, 2008, 08:35:41 PM
Quote from: Murph on February 29, 2008, 08:32:32 PM
I just have to say what a pleasure it is to see someone who is so competent leading our organization. She really is a stand out among the National Commanders I've seen.
Murph
Not to mention she has a sense of humor, refreshing.
Totally - being a member of this organization should be fun!
Murph
Quote from: jeders on February 29, 2008, 08:35:41 PM
Quote from: Murph on February 29, 2008, 08:32:32 PM
I just have to say what a pleasure it is to see someone who is so competent leading our organization. She really is a stand out among the National Commanders I've seen.
Murph
Not to mention she has a sense of humor, refreshing.
Very true, noted that myself. With the audio still on I heard another member saying the same thing to her.
Hmmm. Nice snacks. ;D
And the Vanguard table is right nearby.
Quote from: SJFedor on February 29, 2008, 08:30:35 PM
OKWG/CC just knowingly said that his pilots wear an unauthorized patch on the pencil pocket, where the "morale patches" go.
We get "hours" patches for CAP flying without incident. OKWG/SE idea and taken by the Inspection Team as a benchmark candidate at our last compliance inspection.
nice! I keep my morale patch at work.
lol, the audio isnt off now its just turned way down. I cranked my volume and heard a guy talking about sausage...
"It's not cheap icecream"
still going on about pilot hours... oops they caught us
Just called my Wing/CC for my fax ice cream.
He said I'm the 3rd person to call ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on February 29, 2008, 08:43:56 PM
still going on about pilot hours... oops they caught us
lol, big brother is watching in real-time!
Quote from: SJFedor on February 29, 2008, 08:45:16 PM
Just called my Wing/CC for my fax ice cream.
He said I'm the 3rd person to call ;D ;D ;D
My Wing/CC's son is under my command. I just called him -
"Haffner, call your dad and tell him I want my faximile ice cream." *click*
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on February 29, 2008, 08:47:49 PM
Quote from: SJFedor on February 29, 2008, 08:45:16 PM
Just called my Wing/CC for my fax ice cream.
He said I'm the 3rd person to call ;D ;D ;D
My Wing/CC's son is under my command. I just called him -
"Haffner, call your dad and tell him I want my faximile ice cream." *click*
Ha! The first one to call was our Wing Administrator.
Our Wing/CC said multiple people have gone up to her n told her "the membership wants their faxed ice cream!"
Quote from: SJFedor on February 29, 2008, 08:49:17 PM
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on February 29, 2008, 08:47:49 PM
Quote from: SJFedor on February 29, 2008, 08:45:16 PM
Just called my Wing/CC for my fax ice cream.
He said I'm the 3rd person to call ;D ;D ;D
My Wing/CC's son is under my command. I just called him -
"Haffner, call your dad and tell him I want my faximile ice cream." *click*
Ha! The first one to call was our Wing Administrator.
Our Wing/CC said multiple people have gone up to her n told her "the membership wants their faxed ice cream!"
Just fired off an email to him ;D
Okay, back to the meeting now
they approved a change to amend CAPR 265-1 to allow wing/region commanders to extend wing/region chaplain's term by 3 years
Delete, silly question.
they approved moving PD crediting to be prepared and done online
Wow, the MDWG/CC has a TON of ribbons.
member achievement award time
ANOTHER new ribbon!
motion passes
they want to use the design that was suggested with this proposal
(trying not to offend) But the color choices sure are horrendous...at least from what I could see.
Looked like blue and almost an OD green color.
^^Agree
I'm sitting on teamspeak if anyone wants to join
a motion about something dealing with a mailing list type thing for Aerospace Ed officers passed
Actually the colors are light blue, dark blue, and khaki.
motion for an Incident Staff Member of the Year Award passed
motion for GTM of the Year Award passed
Enjoy the pictures! I am sure comments are waiting.
Motion to change the renewal of a person's CAPF75 (CAP drivers license) to coincide with renewal of the person's state drivers license passed.
The drivers license thing for me would be great. Georgia veterans drivers licenses dont expire until they are 62. I have 22 more years to go.
Quote from: caphistorian on February 29, 2008, 09:18:06 PM
Enjoy the pictures! I am sure comments are waiting.
Ok...not as bad as the video made it look....
BDU name tape time
Quote from: caphistorian on February 29, 2008, 09:28:15 PM
The drivers license thing for me would be great. Georgia veterans drivers licenses dont expire until they are 62. I have 22 more years to go.
specific mention was made that wings could amend the time period
Motion for removing US Civil air Patrol from the BDu field jacket and replace with Civil air patrol. Ammended to remove all US Civil Air Patrol and replace w/CAP on all and every uniform items
proposed 2010 phase out date
they want to get rid of USCAP everywhere, vehicles etc
USCAP motion to remove tabled till tomorrow.
tabled till tomorrow so the proposal can be written up
Did anyone else just completely lose sound but still have perfect video?
me
Yep
[raises hand] I believe they are discussing boonie hats
me as well.
aww man, I wanted to hear the boonie hat discussion...
Yes, they're discussing boonie hats, but the sound died...
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on February 29, 2008, 09:33:19 PM
Did anyone else just completely lose sound but still have perfect video?
Yeah... I refreshed the connection and it still has no sound.
whoever is at that hotel, go make sure there's no black vans out front!
while we've got time to kill whats with the mention of watching the "CAP Journal" on the CAPchannel link that takes you to the video stream? Anyone know what that means?
Its a conspiracy to prevent us from hearing who wants to kill boonie hats... >:D
anyone else loose audio?
Quote from: RiverAux on February 29, 2008, 09:35:26 PM
while we've got time to kill whats with the mention of watching the "CAP Journal" on the CAPchannel link that takes you to the video stream? Anyone know what that means?
CAP Journal was this morning. I didn't watch it but I think it was pretty much a highlights of The Volunteer type thing.
looks like something got an unanimous vote
It would be nice if they had the agenda posted so that we could still see whats going on in the event of something like this happening.
-edit-
Back, still talking about boonie hats.
Must be an amendment, as there is still discussion.
Sound on!
Sound back, still on boonie hats.
And the agenda is posted on eServices, at least it was this morning when I opened it.
Quote from: wacapgh on February 29, 2008, 09:38:14 PM
Must be an amendment, as there is still discussion.
probably about who can approve wear
my audio is fine.....they are going back and forth about the boonies....some for, some not for....some want them to be bright orange others do not.....motion passes as amended
passed as amended
anyone know for sure what the amendment was
Cool, boonie hats
so did they just pass the boonie hat?
"Is this thing on?"
Col Reeves rules.
Note that in the notes in the agenda that CAP-USAF specifically said that orange boonie hats would probably not be supported by the AF. hear that Pennsylvania?
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on February 29, 2008, 09:40:47 PM
anyone know for sure what the amendment was
Something about activity directors dictating whether they would be worn.
I think courter was laughing about the comment that vanguard would have a quality product
Quote from: RiverAux on February 29, 2008, 09:41:21 PM
Note that in the notes in the agenda that CAP-USAF specifically said that orange boonie hats would probably not be supported by the AF. hear that Pennsylvania?
Whoa, now...
long sleeve polo approved
Approved a long sleeve golf shirt - same markings as short sleeve.
Oh no, the silver braid is gonna go away. How will we direct traffic now? >:D
Ugh, I'm sick of dress uniform discussions...
sick of uniform discussions in general. dress or otherwise...
haha, it wouldn't be CAP otherwise.
don't generals wear silver sleeve braids
Quote from: NIN on February 29, 2008, 09:46:59 PM
sick of uniform discussions in general. dress or otherwise...
"I second the motion."
"any discussion?"
We need an admin to lock their conversation
Why doesn't someone just give the real reason to remove the silver braid, IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A DUFUS.
There we go. Someone's pulling for keeping uniforms the same.
Finally a voice of reason! No more sewing!
they tabled indefinitely change of corporate jacket silver sleeve braid to blue AF officer style braid and change of service hat band back to a black band
Yay, Col. Walling for stopping this one....
Quote from: RiverAux on February 29, 2008, 09:54:14 PM
Yay, Col. Walling for stopping this one....
Ye-ha! I like the table indefinitely motion
approved change to wording of uniform manual from restricting height of ribbons and badges on uniform to having no restriction of height on uniform
tabled change of command patch till tomorrow
Appears that all major actions are done for the day
4 long hours of hard work!
there is a $20,000 National CAP Scholarship to Norwich university
Nice! Norwich scholarship!
Just one? It wasn't clear based on the language...
meeting is adjourned till 0900 tomorrow
ok so I missd part of the meeting.
what's the story on the name tapes? are we chucking the "US Civil Air Patrol"?
they are considering removing US for everything that says USCAP but they are waiting til tomorrow so they can take their time and write something up for approval
Sounds like they're just figuring out the best way to word it -- it wasn't tabled due to any apparent opposition.
It's tabled for wording that way someone doesn't get the idea that the US cutouts on the AF service coat need to be removed.
Ugh, I'm gonna have to get up at like 745 if I want to watch all of tomorrow.
Do they post it later so people can watch at a reasonable hour?
Nope. You snooze, you lose....
OK, the silver sleeve braid was the one thing I was really hoping would be changed, I hate that thing. That alone will keep me out of it.
You uniform Nazis who want NO changes are ruining it for all of us who live for the changes! my poor seamstress won't be able to send her kids thru Harvard University and MIT now. Shame on y'all. She might actually have to go get a job at Vanguard. ;D
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on February 29, 2008, 06:39:54 PM
instructor course now online
Did they happen to mention where?
It on AFIADL, same portal as SOS, unless this is something even newer that I don't know about yet. The one that I saw was pretty good though.
Quote from: DrJbdm on March 01, 2008, 03:05:38 AM
OK, the silver sleeve braid was the one thing I was really hoping would be changed, I hate that thing. That alone will keep me out of it.
Ditto. The silver braid is the one thing keeping me from purchasing this uniform. The silver braid is just too over the top for me. The silver braid always makes me think of Cmndt. Eric Lassard and Lt. Thaddeus Harris from Police Academy. ;D
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on March 01, 2008, 01:17:17 AM
Ugh, I'm gonna have to get up at like 745 if I want to watch all of tomorrow.
Do they post it later so people can watch at a reasonable hour?
They really ought to.. It is so much more interesting to watch it, rather than just read the minutes...
Oh well.
I thought it was pretty hilarious that the people supporting this at the NB didn't realize that there actually isn't an AF uniform that looks like our corporate uniform (heck, the AF wouldn't have approved it if it did) and the main supporter was comparing the current CAP corporate uniform to some old AF uniform he wore back in the mists of time. They also didn't realize that switching the corporate uniform to the blue braid would actually make the corporate uniform look more like the current AF service dress uniform.
I am not a fan of the concept of the corporate uniform, but this particular proposal was not very well thought out.
Quote from: DC on March 01, 2008, 03:42:34 AM
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on March 01, 2008, 01:17:17 AM
Ugh, I'm gonna have to get up at like 745 if I want to watch all of tomorrow.
Do they post it later so people can watch at a reasonable hour?
They really ought to.. It is so much more interesting to watch it, rather than just read the minutes...
Oh well.
I expect that they don't have the space to store 4+ hours of video files.
Bringing up Boonie Hats again... (I know... sorry...)
Do you think the Air Force might give us a break on the Woodland Camo for wear with BDUs since they are transfering to ABUs now?
Quote from: RiverAux on March 01, 2008, 03:43:22 AM
I thought it was pretty hilarious that the people supporting this at the NB didn't realize that there actually isn't an AF uniform that looks like our corporate uniform (heck, the AF wouldn't have approved it if it did) and the main supporter was comparing the current CAP corporate uniform to some old AF uniform he wore back in the mists of time. They also didn't realize that switching the corporate uniform to the blue braid would actually make the corporate uniform look more like the current AF service dress uniform.
I am not a fan of the concept of the corporate uniform, but this particular proposal was not very well thought out.
It was flat out stupid... But, I think anyone wearing that uniform is more likely to be mistaken for an airline captain than an Air Force officer. After an airline pilot, a Naval or Coastie officer... I have always thought the TPU was rediculous, what's wrong with the blazer for a corporate dress uniform?
If anyone noticed, that's what Gen. Courter was wearing today...
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on March 01, 2008, 01:17:17 AM
Ugh, I'm gonna have to get up at like 745 if I want to watch all of tomorrow.
Do they post it later so people can watch at a reasonable hour?
No, but for a large and unreasonable fee, I'll record it and mail it to you. Or just call you and wake you up every 15 minutes with a play by play.
Quote from: TankerT on March 01, 2008, 04:02:14 AM
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on March 01, 2008, 01:17:17 AM
Ugh, I'm gonna have to get up at like 745 if I want to watch all of tomorrow.
Do they post it later so people can watch at a reasonable hour?
No, but for a large and unreasonable fee, I'll record it and mail it to you. Or just call you and wake you up every 15 minutes with a play by play.
Ha, thank you sir but I've already set up the recording software :D
Besides, if you called me every 15 minuets while I was trying to sleep, I'd teleport my butt strait to Madison, cut your phone lines, and detonate an EMP to kill your cell phone. Dan no like wakey wakey before 1PM. >:D :D ;D
Am I the only one who thinks we need a change in how CAP business is conducted?
Really, there is something fundamentally ridiculous about the 60 top executives of an organization spending time at a national board meeting discussing and amending proposals about hats!!!!
There's got to be a better way to set this up so the corporate officers' time is preserved for setting policy and addressing major challenges facing CAP.
It's more like middle mgmt. The point of Wg CCs is really just to keep an eye on things at the mid-level so they don't get too out of control They get a tiny bit of power over minor issues so they'll feel important, but that's about it. The NHQ staff is actually more powerful, as certainly are the BoG, plus CAP-USAF/AU/AETC to a degree, and AF XO in a much bigger way.
But yes, absolutely we need to clean up the mess that is our confused governing structure.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on March 01, 2008, 04:05:53 AM
Quote from: TankerT on March 01, 2008, 04:02:14 AM
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on March 01, 2008, 01:17:17 AM
Ugh, I'm gonna have to get up at like 745 if I want to watch all of tomorrow.
Do they post it later so people can watch at a reasonable hour?
No, but for a large and unreasonable fee, I'll record it and mail it to you. Or just call you and wake you up every 15 minutes with a play by play.
Ha, thank you sir but I've already set up the recording software :D
Besides, if you called me every 15 minuets while I was trying to sleep, I'd teleport my butt strait to Madison, cut your phone lines, and detonate an EMP to kill your cell phone. Dan no like wakey wakey before 1PM. >:D :D ;D
You could go to Madison... but I am somewhere a bit more east this week...
/The ice cream was pretty yummy....
No sound again!
They are doing the Color Guard now... Why are there five cadets? and why is one in Service Dress (and an officer?
NCO Chevrons on Corporate uniform approved.
Quote from: DC on March 01, 2008, 01:58:56 PM
No sound again!
They are doing the Color Guard now... Why are there five cadets? and why is one in Service Dress (and an officer?
Remember "enlisted only" is for NCC not to take part in an event, The USAF is now using junior officers as part of honor guards and I have seen them as Color guard commanders..
So, it is OK....
They were not doing color guard at the meeting... it was a video playing until the meeting started.
Operation CAPSafe..
Everyone send in one Safety Idea, each month... Really....
I think they would be better served to require one per wing and track it, but now it is totally unworkable....
That Crash sounds a lot like darker shades of blue..
http://s92270093.onlinehome.us/CRM-Devel/resources/paper/darkblue/darkblue.htm
Humm Medal of Valor Assiocation...
Is that open to ex-members >:D I hope not...
Quote from: tkelley004 on March 01, 2008, 02:51:06 PM
Operation CAPSafe..
Everyone send in one Safety Idea, each month... Really....
I think they would be better served to require one per wing and track it, but now it is totally unworkable....
That Crash sounds a lot like darker shades of blue..
http://s92270093.onlinehome.us/CRM-Devel/resources/paper/darkblue/darkblue.htm
Lets put up Mike Rowe's safety speach.
Not even a single injury is acceptable. Now do not get me wrong, I want no one hurt, but we fly planes and tromp through the woods.....people WILL get hurt, even it is just an ankle sprain. The "zero" mentality is unreasonable and untenable.
I can't watch the feed where I am right now. have they gone back to the "US Civil air Patrol" thing yet?
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on March 01, 2008, 03:43:35 PM
I can't watch the feed where I am right now. have they gone back to the "US Civil air Patrol" thing yet?
not yet, talking about putting a cadet on the national board
Constitution and bylaws committee thinks it would be bad for a cadet to be on the board, voting or nonvoting, because of the fiduciary responsibility put on NB members. The national CAC people obviously disagree.
I'm confused, what kind of legal liability for the cadet comes with being a non-voting member of the board.
When someone sues an entity they usually sue everyone in a position of leadership including most likely the entire national board which would include that cadet.
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 01, 2008, 04:04:42 PM
When someone sues an entity they usually sue everyone in a position of leadership including most likely the entire national board which would include that cadet.
Thanks for the clarification.
And the cadets once again seem to get shafted.
motion defeated
Courter is pressing the importance of listening to the CAC
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 01, 2008, 04:13:27 PM
Courter is pressing the importance of listening to the CAC
Just another sign that we've got a good leader right now.
Ned, you were down there, what do you think?
Wow, just pick one and go with it. What if it to death.
motion carried for line of succession
If the position of national commander or vice is vacated a vote to fill that position will be held at the next national board meeting unless the vacation of the position occurs within 60 days of the next meeting which would move the vote to the next meeting
motion will have to go to the BoG for approval
"More appluase for lunch than anything else." Gotta love the NB
Have they gone to any of the tabled business from yesterday i.e. USCAP?
Just what's mentioned above, they've been to lunch for the last hour and a half.
*YAWN*
Okay, finally awake, when do they get back from lunch?
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on March 01, 2008, 06:02:02 PM
*YAWN*
Okay, finally awake, when do they get back from lunch?
Now
:o :o :o :o :o :o Krisit?!
The female CAC cadet on the right CAPTalk's Airforcecolors if anybody knows her. I had no idea she was down there, but then, I had forgotten she was NCAC chairperson.
Who is the lady that is taking the pictures?
...is the IACE lady slaughtering a uniform?
nobody is laughing at the hawk mountain guy's jokes
Hawk Mountain:
"It's a lot of fun""It's a lot of fun""It's a lot of fun""It's a lot of fun"
He sounds like he's begging people to attend
".....that OTHER may live" ?? I guess he didnt check his slides.
ALRIGHT!
The big issue...
-edit-
No more US CAP, vehicle and aircraft decals will be changed as the current ones wear out.
motion passed for removal of US from USCAP
phase out date for uniform items: Mar 2010
for vehicle/aircraft decals: as the decals need changed
Booster clubs referred back to committee to come back up at next meeting
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 01, 2008, 06:38:59 PM
motion passed for removal of US from USCAP
phase out date for uniform items: Mar 2010
for vehicle/aircraft decals: as the decals need changed
Awesome. Only two cadets of mine made the change.
Did anyone else lose picture?
Nope.
There's a lot of talk about "vision"...
And there seems to be a core of only six or seven people that are getting up to the mic...
Actually, a proposal that makes some sense - making sure the agenda items for the NB,NEC,BoG are policy and not minutea.
Quote from: arajca on March 01, 2008, 07:23:03 PM
Actually, a proposal that makes some sense - making sure the agenda items for the NB,NEC,BoG are policy and not minutea.
Except that some people don't like there liberty being taken away. I'm sure it'll pass in some form though.
Now on to New business, first up uniforms.
Authorizing alternative uniforms for field activities.
What happened with the Emergency Services Competition?
California wants its special uniform.
They got it.
Emergency Services Competetion is dead.
Blaze Orange for everyone (if wing commander says so!) Oh boy......
I love how lots of people rail against uniform changes being discussed at these meetings, yet the first 5 agenda items under new business are mostly minutia matters of uniforms.
Bronze star for Region Commander's Commendation. Passed
Black all-weather coat for corporate blues w/metal grade insignia. Passed
Blue cold weather cap for service dress. Passed.
Change back to the 'old' command patch for wear on the uniform. Failed.
Plastic encased grade for flight suits is becoming unavailable. Necessity may mean that green flight suits get embroirdered grade.
New Journey of Flight shoud be coming out next week.
Vanguard wants our promotional business. They're offering wings and regions a 5% kickback on these items.
It's Over.
California has a special uniform? What is it?
Man I take one weekend off and miss everything! Now to start back on page 1........
Quote from: cferron on March 01, 2008, 09:21:13 PM
California has a special uniform? What is it?
I didn't see the part where they discussed it but I think they're talking about this one:
(http://members.cox.net/dragnd/SDC80006.gif)
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149)
http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf (http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf)
Yup. That be the one. I was a part of that GT.
wait so we keep the command patch with the "US" on it?
Quote from: arajca on March 01, 2008, 08:45:53 PM
Bronze star for Region Commander's Commendation. Passed
Black all-weather coat for corporate blues w/metal grade insignia. Passed
Blue cold weather cap for service dress. Passed.
Change back to the 'old' command patch for wear on the uniform. Failed.
Is this like the ones the sentinels wear at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier?
Quote from: tkelley004 on March 01, 2008, 08:38:37 PM
Blaze Orange for everyone (if wing commander says so!) Oh boy......
Nice.
Quote from: MikeTA on March 02, 2008, 04:21:40 AM
Quote from: arajca on March 01, 2008, 08:45:53 PM
Bronze star for Region Commander's Commendation. Passed
Black all-weather coat for corporate blues w/metal grade insignia. Passed
Blue cold weather cap for service dress. Passed.
Change back to the 'old' command patch for wear on the uniform. Failed.
Is this like the ones the sentinels wear at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier?
Looks like this: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-w/g-wp/udc/Garrison.html
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on March 02, 2008, 04:21:31 AM
wait so we keep the command patch with the "US" on it?
No. The US was removed from the command patch. Later, there was a motion to allow the previous design command patch with USAF Aux to be allowed on the uniform, (not on vehicles or aircraft) and that was defeated.
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 02, 2008, 02:42:38 AM
Quote from: cferron on March 01, 2008, 09:21:13 PM
California has a special uniform? What is it?
I didn't see the part where they discussed it but I think they're talking about this one:
(http://members.cox.net/dragnd/SDC80006.gif)
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149)
http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf (http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf)
That is HIDEOUS!
Quote from: bte on March 02, 2008, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on March 02, 2008, 04:21:31 AM
wait so we keep the command patch with the "US" on it?
No. The US was removed from the command patch. Later, there was a motion to allow the previous design command patch with USAF Aux to be allowed on the uniform, (not on vehicles or aircraft) and that was defeated.
That sucks... I always felt really pumped up when I saw U.S. Air Force Auxiliary on a patch or decal.
What was the discussion about it?
Quote from: LittleIronPilot on March 02, 2008, 02:28:51 PM
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 02, 2008, 02:42:38 AM
Quote from: cferron on March 01, 2008, 09:21:13 PM
California has a special uniform? What is it?
I didn't see the part where they discussed it but I think they're talking about this one:
(http://members.cox.net/dragnd/SDC80006.gif)
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149)
http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf (http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf)
That is HIDEOUS!
I agree.
You notice that the girl who is properly dressed in the uniform of the United States is looking away pretending she does not know the others?
In California they consider the US Marine Corps to be "Unwelcome Intruders" which explains why they dress like pumpkins there. Or as nuns in heavy theatrical makeup.
Quote from: DC on March 02, 2008, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: bte on March 02, 2008, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on March 02, 2008, 04:21:31 AM
wait so we keep the command patch with the "US" on it?
No. The US was removed from the command patch. Later, there was a motion to allow the previous design command patch with USAF Aux to be allowed on the uniform, (not on vehicles or aircraft) and that was defeated.
That sucks... I always felt really pumped up when I saw U.S. Air Force Auxiliary on a patch or decal.
What was the discussion about it?
The concern is that if we assist a law enforcement agency there could be a violation of posse comitatus if USAF Aux is displayed
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on March 02, 2008, 02:44:19 PM
Quote from: LittleIronPilot on March 02, 2008, 02:28:51 PM
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 02, 2008, 02:42:38 AM
Quote from: cferron on March 01, 2008, 09:21:13 PM
California has a special uniform? What is it?
I didn't see the part where they discussed it but I think they're talking about this one:
(http://members.cox.net/dragnd/SDC80006.gif)
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149)
http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf (http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf)
That is HIDEOUS!
I agree.
You notice that the girl who is properly dressed in the uniform of the United States is looking away pretending she does not know the others?
In California they consider the US Marine Corps to be "Unwelcome Intruders" which explains why they dress like pumpkins there. Or as nuns in heavy theatrical makeup.
There's already a discussion about this uniform elsewhere:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63146#msg63146 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63146#msg63146)
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 02, 2008, 03:20:04 PM
Quote from: DC on March 02, 2008, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: bte on March 02, 2008, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on March 02, 2008, 04:21:31 AM
wait so we keep the command patch with the "US" on it?
No. The US was removed from the command patch. Later, there was a motion to allow the previous design command patch with USAF Aux to be allowed on the uniform, (not on vehicles or aircraft) and that was defeated.
That sucks... I always felt really pumped up when I saw U.S. Air Force Auxiliary on a patch or decal.
What was the discussion about it?
The concern is that if we assist a law enforcement agency there could be a violation of posse comitatus if USAF Aux is displayed
One person also brought up the point that since the command patch with just Civil Air Patrol was the official command patch, then we should wear the official command patch on the uniform. Likewise, if the command patch with USAF Aux was the official patch, we wouldn't wear one with just CAP. As much as I would have preferred to wear the one with USAF Aux on it, I agree that we should wear the official command patch. I guess it's time to go give Vanguard some more money.
Also, does anyone else interpret the 2010 wear date of the CAP command patch without US to also mean that until 2010 the USAF Aux command patch is still wearable?
Quote from: jeders on March 02, 2008, 03:44:43 PM
Also, does anyone else interpret the 2010 wear date of the CAP command patch without US to also mean that until 2010 the USAF Aux command patch is still wearable?
Yes.
But didn't the old, old command patch (with USAF Aux) just time out this month? If so, it has to be gone anyway unless they specfically resicended their past guidance to get rid of it.
Quote from: LittleIronPilot on March 02, 2008, 02:28:51 PM
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 02, 2008, 02:42:38 AM
Quote from: cferron on March 01, 2008, 09:21:13 PM
California has a special uniform? What is it?
I didn't see the part where they discussed it but I think they're talking about this one:
(http://members.cox.net/dragnd/SDC80006.gif)
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149)
http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf (http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf)
That is HIDEOUS!
Rant On
Ah... CAWG bashing again. Folks if you don't know anything about it then pipe down. The local county SO's are in charge of all SAR operations in their counties. If they need assistance they request CAP to come out and play. Their uniform is the orange shirt with either blue/khaki pants. We were asked to wear the same uniform in many parts of the State. Plus I am not too much into concealment when I am in the woods doing a line search.
The new CAWG/CC stepped up to the plate and killed the uniform combo until it was approved by the Board. Guess what, we got it approved, democracy at action!!!!
Rant Off
After the long discussion about TPU uniform wear alignment in LTC White's Uniform Committee post nothing changed. The gray slacks and slides Aviator Shirt uniform remains as is; correct?
Quote from: billford1 on March 02, 2008, 05:52:42 PM
After the long discussion about TPU uniform wear alignment in LTC White's Uniform Committee post nothing changed. The gray slacks and slides Aviator Shirt uniform remains as is; correct?
The board members weren't very receptive to uniform changes (note I said changes and not new uniforms). The one proposal for changing the silver braid on the TPU jacket was tabled indefinitely after some spirited debate. This would not have been a good time to try to change uniforms.
Quote from: flynd94 on March 02, 2008, 05:42:15 PM
Quote from: LittleIronPilot on March 02, 2008, 02:28:51 PM
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 02, 2008, 02:42:38 AM
Quote from: cferron on March 01, 2008, 09:21:13 PM
California has a special uniform? What is it?
I didn't see the part where they discussed it but I think they're talking about this one:
(http://members.cox.net/dragnd/SDC80006.gif)
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149)
http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf (http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf)
That is HIDEOUS!
Rant On
Ah... CAWG bashing again. Folks if you don't know anything about it then pipe down. The local county SO's are in charge of all SAR operations in their counties. If they need assistance they request CAP to come out and play. Their uniform is the orange shirt with either blue/khaki pants. We were asked to wear the same uniform in many parts of the State. Plus I am not too much into concealment when I am in the woods doing a line search.
The new CAWG/CC stepped up to the plate and killed the uniform combo until it was approved by the Board. Guess what, we got it approved, democracy at action!!!!
Rant Off
Thats cool, but can you guys at least have matching tapes?
Looks like California once again does whatever it wants!
So, are the county sheriffs in California forcing the National Guard to wear orange when they participate in searches?
Personally, I prefer the orange t-shirt, orange hat, Utility Uniform combination with a reflective orange vest. For winter I add a coat appropriate to the weather, an orange knit cap and orange gloves. I don't care if regs say the cap and gloves should be navy or black. Orange is easier to see - both for others who are looking for me and when they are on the ground.
I also like the idea of the boonie hat to better protect ears and necks during missions or activities where sunburn is a potential problem.
The main two problems I see with the orange shirt are the cost to replace garments damaged during a SAR, and the resemblance to prison inmates' coveralls.
Also, you can pack 2 or 3 t-shirts in the same space needed for one heavy cloth shirt, and don't have to worry as much about wrinkles.
To deal with the problem of being visible to aircraft in areas of dense vegetation, I recommend requiring every GTM carry a reflective orange or reflective yellow poncho. These are often available at dollar stores in 2/$1.00 packs, so it's absolutely no hardship for anyone.
Just remember California is cereal land....Flakes,fruit & nuts.
Considering the blaze orange shirts I'm glad I'm aircrew and not ground team. Wearing a shirt like that makes you a target for angry drivers who mistake you for a CALTRANS Highway worker and want to run you over for tyeing up traffic ;D
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 02, 2008, 03:20:04 PM
Quote from: DC on March 02, 2008, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: bte on March 02, 2008, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on March 02, 2008, 04:21:31 AM
wait so we keep the command patch with the "US" on it?
No. The US was removed from the command patch. Later, there was a motion to allow the previous design command patch with USAF Aux to be allowed on the uniform, (not on vehicles or aircraft) and that was defeated.
That sucks... I always felt really pumped up when I saw U.S. Air Force Auxiliary on a patch or decal.
What was the discussion about it?
The concern is that if we assist a law enforcement agency there could be a violation of posse comitatus if USAF Aux is displayed
Which is simply nonsense. The National Guard, when mobilized in state service, can act as law enforcement officers and still wears "US Army" or "US Air Force" as appropriate, on their uniforms.
^ Right on Sir! Everyone seems to forget that. If it was an issue, than the National Guard would wear tapes that read their home state, i.e. "Alabama" not US Air Force/ US Army.
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 02, 2008, 03:20:04 PM
Quote from: DC on March 02, 2008, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: bte on March 02, 2008, 01:19:43 PM
Quote from: NERMA002 Safety on March 02, 2008, 04:21:31 AM
wait so we keep the command patch with the "US" on it?
No. The US was removed from the command patch. Later, there was a motion to allow the previous design command patch with USAF Aux to be allowed on the uniform, (not on vehicles or aircraft) and that was defeated.
That sucks... I always felt really pumped up when I saw U.S. Air Force Auxiliary on a patch or decal.
What was the discussion about it?
The concern is that if we assist a law enforcement agency there could be a violation of posse comitatus if USAF Aux is displayed
That's absolute bull. If that is such a big concern then why didn't it come up when the patch was initially approved?
Rediculous...
What he said.
At some point we need to table to notion that what are uniforms are (or are not) have anything to do with
our POSSE COM status, relationship to the USAF, or the amount of missions we get (or do not get).
POSSE COM discussions happen when MOU's are being written, as a mission is being discussed, and/or in the AAR / Courtroom.
It is not in anyway affected by the logo on the door / tail / or business cards.
Looks like the REGIONAL CAP UNIFORM, I once joked about make become a reality. Imagine all the State in the Union, and former Confederacy, with at least one radically different Field Uniform.
Fifty-two different uniforms added to the already engorged CAP uniform closet.
Can't say anything good will come from this...but wait, why not join in.
CAP is yet to have a Mariachi field Jacket (If Ted Kennedy can start spouting Jalisco, then CAP may need these in the Southwestern WINGS), Royal Canadian Red Tunics (can't have the Neighbors to the north left out...eh?), a Field Kilt (nothing says " your in the field" like a wee bonnie breeze), a Confederate Gray Tunic with Kepi (I already own one!!!) and the return of the Guyaberrera Shirt (hold on to your hat KACH!).
That's a joke, however, on a more serious note.
Now, who is going to oversee this and how far can it really get?
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 02, 2008, 03:20:04 PM
The concern is that if we assist a law enforcement agency there could be a violation of posse comitatus if USAF Aux is displayed
As far as the command patch goes:
There is no concern for
Posse Comitatus. The main reason for dropping this design from consideration has to do with "branding". Everything we do is under the name of "Civil Air Patrol". We want the public and our customers to know who we are. It has been decided by the powers that be "Civil Air Patrol" is what we are and it is how we should be known. End of Story.
BTW, our corporate seal hasn't changed. It still says "U.S. Air Force Auxiliary" on top.
Quote from: FW on March 02, 2008, 10:59:55 PM
BTW, our corporate seal hasn't changed. It still says "U.S. Air Force Auxiliary" on top.
Which means there's no reason for our command patch to have USAF Aux on it, especially since the USAF Aux one also had CAP on it.
But arguing this is pointless. Whether we like it or not, a command patch design has been decided on and that's what we're gonna be wearing.
Quote from: 2d Lt Rudin on March 02, 2008, 06:17:53 PM
Quote from: flynd94 on March 02, 2008, 05:42:15 PM
Quote from: LittleIronPilot on March 02, 2008, 02:28:51 PM
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 02, 2008, 02:42:38 AM
Quote from: cferron on March 01, 2008, 09:21:13 PM
California has a special uniform? What is it?
I didn't see the part where they discussed it but I think they're talking about this one:
(http://members.cox.net/dragnd/SDC80006.gif)
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3316.msg63149#msg63149)
http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf (http://cawg.cap.gov/files/manuals/cawgm39-1.pdf)
That is HIDEOUS!
Rant On
Ah... CAWG bashing again. Folks if you don't know anything about it then pipe down. The local county SO's are in charge of all SAR operations in their counties. If they need assistance they request CAP to come out and play. Their uniform is the orange shirt with either blue/khaki pants. We were asked to wear the same uniform in many parts of the State. Plus I am not too much into concealment when I am in the woods doing a line search.
The new CAWG/CC stepped up to the plate and killed the uniform combo until it was approved by the Board. Guess what, we got it approved, democracy at action!!!!
Rant Off
Thats cool, but can you guys at least have matching tapes?
The tapes do match, if you would look a little closer you will notice that all of the name tapes have been blacked out.
What're the patches on the right shoulder with the six-pointed star? Look like county sheriff patches...I assume they're SAR patches of some sort?
The blue and yellow patches with the star are the California Office of Emergency Services SAR patches. SAR falls under the law enforcement division of OES.
Mike
Interesting...so does each individual county sheriff in CA have jurisdiction over his/her particular county (as in Colorado) or is it all under one state umbrella (sorry about the topic drift...just curious).
The sheriff is responsible for SAR within his/her county, just like Colorado. In Colorado, the Colorado SAR Board does much of what OES does for SAR. One of the biggest differences is that for aircraft and ELT missions, AFRCC calls Cal OES, which then contacts CAWG, and CAP is assigned a state mission number in addition to an AFRCC number. In Colorado, AFRCC contacts COWG directly. Here is the description of what OES does.
The Law Enforcement Branch is charged with the responsibility of coordinating state mutual aid for search and rescue in California. In addition, it receives and coordinates interstate requests under the auspices of the National Search and Rescue Plan. The branch also coordinates all local requests for state and Federal agency assistance. Because search and rescue missions are often life threatening, requests for out- of-county, state or Federal resources can be made directly to OES.
[/off topic]
Mike
CAWG GT picture removed. My pic, hosted on my site.
Yes, the names were blacked out.
Wow. The first instinct of so many people here is to jump to bashing people. California is cereal land? Where did that come from? Have you been waiting long to pull out that clever little phrase? The uniform serves a purpose in the place it was created and can serve a purpose elsewhere. If you don't like it that's fine but calling it hideous it's completely inappropriate. I didn't know there was an ICS position for fashion police. Are there members here that have so much frustration and this is the only place they can let it out? Bashing people serves absolutely no purpose. I am in favor of this uniform. I believe it is a good idea. I even tried to carry on a conversation in the other thread about why I thought it was a good thing but after a while the same thing happened there that has happened here. Some people don't like it and instead of discussing it they attack with all they have. I know most people at this point in the post have stopped reading or are in the process of posting a reply to flame me but this has really got to stop.
Things will never be the way each of us individually think it should. Get over it, stop attacking people and ideas, and carry on.
SarDragon I apologize for the responses to the picture. I did not intend to put it out as flame bait.
^ I only saw it as another needless expense to the membership. And the blanket approval for other wings, means anything can now be prescribed for no reason. I see this as a way to get Orange T-shirts and whistle chains into everyone's possession, nothing more.
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 03, 2008, 04:36:20 AM
Wow. The first instinct of so many people here is to jump to bashing people. California is cereal land? Where did that come from? Have you been waiting long to pull out that clever little phrase? The uniform serves a purpose in the place it was created and can serve a purpose elsewhere. If you don't like it that's fine but calling it hideous it's completely inappropriate. I didn't know there was an ICS position for fashion police. Are there members here that have so much frustration and this is the only place they can let it out? Bashing people serves absolutely no purpose. I am in favor of this uniform. I believe it is a good idea. I even tried to carry on a conversation in the other thread about why I thought it was a good thing but after a while the same thing happened there that has happened here. Some people don't like it and instead of discussing it they attack with all they have. I know most people at this point in the post have stopped reading or are in the process of posting a reply to flame me but this has really got to stop.
Things will never be the way each of us individually think it should. Get over it, stop attacking people and ideas, and carry on.
SarDragon I apologize for the responses to the picture. I did not intend to put it out as flame bait.
The above
BOLDED and
RED BOLDED are in conflict with one another.
The uniform photo that was posted demonstrated a uniform with clear violations to CAP sovereignty as a unified National Organization and was, at the time, against CAPM 39-1. My issue with the new policy was that it might be the reality that CAP will have 52 Uniform variants. I don't think a CONFEDERATED CAP is a good idea. I mean this uniform has a patch that could clearly be mistaken for Law Enforcement complete with the necesary "LE Star."
This is also a good example of why CAP should never be given over to the National and State Guards.
Believe me, there are more issue in this topic than just the ridicule of a photo or "another unifrom thread."
The California "Cereal" comment was out of line.
The orange shirt is cheaper than a BDU shirt. By the time folks will be needing to buy one, they will have been in CAP long enough to understand the additional expenses over and above the annual dues. It was treated as an optional, but recommended, item for ground team personnel.
Ok, in the interest of changing the topic and getting back on track... When you say that the idea of removing the silver braid from the Corporate uniform jacket was "tabled indefinitely", does that mean it will not be brought up again and that the issue is dead? Is there any chance of this changing in Aug at the next board meeting or are we stuck for years with this ugly thing?
By the way, to comment on the command patch, I understand that the purpose for making it read Civil Air Patrol is in branding, but I think our leaders forget one major point, U.S. Air Force Aux is a big attention getter and would do wonders for a better brand then just Civil Air Patrol.
I just think it's that our leaders all have a corporate mentality and want to distance CAP from being military. Give it a few years, it may swing back to the direction that I like. every 10 years or so it tends to swing in one direction or the other.
Quote from: DrJbdm on March 03, 2008, 05:01:36 AM
Ok, in the interest of changing the topic and getting back on track... When you say that the idea of removing the silver braid from the Corporate uniform jacket was "tabled indefinitely", does that mean it will not be brought up again and that the issue is dead? Is there any chance of this changing in Aug at the next board meeting or are we stuck for years with this ugly thing?
It means the issue has not been decided upon and they don't want to force the matter night now. It can be brought up again but it won't be considered an leftover open item. The discussion started going back and forth about whether it made us look more or less like a military officer and the concern about the number of uniform changes was brought up. The discussion didn't seem to be getting anywhere so the motion to table indefinably was presented to get rid of the issue for the time being.
Quote from: Major Carrales on March 03, 2008, 04:57:04 AM
Quote from: Bayhawk21 on March 03, 2008, 04:36:20 AM
Wow. The first instinct of so many people here is to jump to bashing people. California is cereal land? Where did that come from? Have you been waiting long to pull out that clever little phrase? The uniform serves a purpose in the place it was created and can serve a purpose elsewhere. If you don't like it that's fine but calling it hideous it's completely inappropriate. I didn't know there was an ICS position for fashion police. Are there members here that have so much frustration and this is the only place they can let it out? Bashing people serves absolutely no purpose. I am in favor of this uniform. I believe it is a good idea. I even tried to carry on a conversation in the other thread about why I thought it was a good thing but after a while the same thing happened there that has happened here. Some people don't like it and instead of discussing it they attack with all they have. I know most people at this point in the post have stopped reading or are in the process of posting a reply to flame me but this has really got to stop.
Things will never be the way each of us individually think it should. Get over it, stop attacking people and ideas, and carry on.
SarDragon I apologize for the responses to the picture. I did not intend to put it out as flame bait.
The above BOLDED and RED BOLDED are in conflict with one another.
The uniform photo that was posted demonstrated a uniform with clear violations to CAP sovereignty as a unified National Organization and was, at the time, against CAPM 39-1. My issue with the new policy was that it might be the reality that CAP will have 52 Uniform variants. I don't think a CONFEDERATED CAP is a good idea. I mean this uniform has a patch that could clearly be mistaken for Law Enforcement complete with the necesary "LE Star."
This is also a good example of why CAP should never be given over to the National and State Guards.
Believe me, there are more issue in this topic than just the ridicule of a photo or "another unifrom thread."
I have to agree with Maj. Carrales. We are the auxiliary of the US Air Force. We should wear our own uniform. I realize that California has "Issues" with the uniform of the United States, but that is their problem, not ours. Perhaps, if California wants to dictate that AF Aux. personnel refrain from wearing the uniform of their country, we should get out of the Ground Team business in California. Make them provide and train their own ground teams to work with our aircraft, and then they can dress as nuns if they want to, it won't affect us.
I disagree about placing CAP under the National Guard, though. The National Guard still wears the same uniform nationwide.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on March 03, 2008, 05:09:50 AM
I disagree about placing CAP under the National Guard, though. The National Guard still wears the same uniform nationwide.
Ah, one of the few points where "Smilin' Kach" and "Sparky" seem to disagree. The way people argue about ribbons and the like calling people "South American Dictators" (not my words) I can't wait to see a migrant CAP Officer wearing the State Ribbons of Five States.
Thanks for the info, I didn't get to watch the video feed. It does seem that our leadership has a big aversion to appearing to be military at all. They actually argued about rather it made us look too military or not? wow, CAP is a far different CAP then one I belonged to as a cadet in the 80's.
I hope we one day change back to wanting to be military and that the anti military zealots who are in charge now don't forever change CAP into being a non-military flying club/boyscout organization.
Quote from: DrJbdm on March 03, 2008, 05:14:30 AM
Thanks for the info, I didn't get to watch the video feed. It does seem that our leadership has a big aversion to appearing to be military at all. They actually argued about rather it made us look too military or not? wow, CAP is a far different CAP then one I belonged to as a cadet in the 80's.
I hope we one day change back to wanting to be military and that the anti military zealots who are in charge now don't forever change CAP into being a non-military flying club/boyscout organization.
I don't think it was a matter of not wanting to look military because looking like the military is a negative thing. I think it was along the line that the TPU was created to look like the air force uniform but not so much as to draw the wrath the the air force. Who has approval authority for CAP uniforms aside, I think everyone is treading the possibly imaginary line between having a uniform that isn't the air force uniform and one that still implies a link with the air force.
What I can't comment on my own state????????
I live in CALIFORNIA.....and if you have ever been here you know we hold the record for some of the strangest folks in the country. Have you even seen the parades in West Hollywood and San Francisco where guys dress as nuns, some wear chaps with nothing else, where they have the DoDah parade with participants such as the silent brief case drill team, dykes on bikes, etc.
Bayhawk...do you have anything like this in your state?????
I rest my case.
And here, I will say this before MIKE chimes in, we need to return to topic.
The debate on the uniform is proper, CAL Bashing is not.
Quote from: Major Carrales on March 03, 2008, 05:31:26 AM
And here, I will say this before MIKE chimes in, we need to return to topic.
The debate on the uniform is proper, CAL Bashing is not.
Why not, everybody else seems to like doing it. But just remember guys, it works the other way too.
So when your state gets bashed, remember, no whining.
Some of the California bashing is indeed out of line, posters. Please, get back to the relavent topic at hand of the Winter Board actions in and of themselves.
This is the only warning. A word to the wise is sufficient...
I'm absolutely cool with special uniforms IF and ONLY IF they are
1) Required by the customer (show me that in writing)
2) Mandatory - meaning everyone wears them.
We'll see if that is what happens. My guess is that we'll continue to see some guys in orange and some guys in green. Just one more optional uniform.
I don't ding California for asking, but I think it would have made more sense to give the National Commander the authority to establish regional uniforms. Meaning that the Wing CC would have to provide proof of #1 and #2 to National before approval would be granted.
I would add a third reason - required for environmental conditions. The Alaska Wing CC brought it up and it makes sense. This would be in-place of 1).
Good point.
And again, something I'd be happier having the National Commander approve. If you've got a need, we need to meet it. But it's always good to check to see if it's a "need" - or just a "want."
Quote
I don't think it was a matter of not wanting to look military because looking like the military is a negative thing. I think it was along the line that the TPU was created to look like the air force uniform but not so much as to draw the wrath the the air force. Who has approval authority for CAP uniforms aside, I think everyone is treading the possibly imaginary line between having a uniform that isn't the air force uniform and one that still implies a link with the air force.
That may be the crux of it. Perhaps we have people with TOO corporate an attitude. People who want to be in charge with no "big brother" Air Force looking over their shoulder. They WANT to be independent and free of the USAF.
I, for one, want it dramatically opposite. I am IN the corporate world, an executive, and I partly joined the CAP to get back to the military in some way, no some corporate Boy Scout troop.
BTW..I grew up in CAL, spent almost 20 years there, and made the "hideous" comment. I stand by that, that uniform is HIDEOUS. I am entitled to my opinion and will stick by it. I will say this, if my wing mandates that for GT's than I will remain aircrew.
We need to bash California - they force everyone working on a SAR to sign up as a State Disaster Response Worker (even out of state augmentees) so they can be covered with workman's comp and liability insurance. Shame on them.
Quote from: arajca on March 01, 2008, 08:45:53 PM
Blue cold weather cap for service dress. Passed.
I have been wearing this (USAF Blue Cold Weather Cap) but I have not seen any document actually authorizing its wear. I understand wear was approved at the 2008 winter board... anyone know if there is documentation anywhere saying that it's OK to wear?
I am keeping a running tally. This is the 4th item that I know of that is NB passed, but no other action to notify the membership or update regulation.
???
The other question is whether it is worn with the large metal CAP eagle on the front (same as the big round combination cap) or not.
Quote from: cnitas on March 24, 2009, 03:31:21 PM
I am keeping a running tally. This is the 4th item that I know of that is NB passed, but no other action to notify the membership or update regulation.
Let me guess - is one of the other ones the "bronze star on commander's commendation when awarded by a region commander," also approved at the 2008 winter NB?
I was a GTM/GTL in the CA Wing from about 1975-1991. IIRC, the reason for the change to CALTRANS orange and blue was safety - in the woods!!!
Somebody diidn't want the CAP to look like LEO's when "in the woods" in certain areas.Folks were know to shoot at the camo'ed LEO's looing for "wacky backy" groves.
Quote from: mdickinson on March 25, 2009, 04:27:44 PM
Quote from: cnitas on March 24, 2009, 03:31:21 PM
I am keeping a running tally. This is the 4th item that I know of that is NB passed, but no other action to notify the membership or update regulation.
Let me guess - is one of the other ones the "bronze star on commander's commendation when awarded by a region commander," also approved at the 2008 winter NB?
No, but I can certianly add it to my list.