Senior Members entering military

[flyboy53]

Speaking from personal experience, without the Mitchell or Certificate of Proficiency, there is nothing. At one point in the mid-1970s a senior member with a COP could also qualify for advanced rank. However, it was my expience that that having advanced rank also required you to be proficient on the job so there were problems. At that point an E-2 or now E-3 would have had a least six months to a year in service and either a 3- or 5-skill level. So, it is better to keep your mouth shut. I was a CAP first lieutenant when I joined the Air Force as a slick sleve. It got really exciting one day in basic training when a friend sent me a photo of myself in a flight suit in front of a KC-135. The TI and the squadron command section thought I was an OSI plant. Funny, the rest of the time I spent in basic was a breeze. I wonder why?

[flyguy06]

These advancements in rank in the armed forces were designed for cadets. I dont think the intent ws to use them for senior members

[AlphaSigOU]

As a former cadink and Mitchell recipient I was able to enlist at the grade of A1C (E-3) when I enlisted in the Air Force nearly 25 years ago. Back in those days when dinosaurs roamed the earth those former cadinks with ROTC/JROTC/CAP experience there were eligible for an accelerated basic training program called Proficiency Advancement. After the 7th day of training those who were identified as 'PAs' at Lackland were handed appointment sheets and sent off to meet basic training flights in more advanced stages of training. It still required a meeting with the BMT squadron commander; even then it was way too easy to fail, considering six weeks of BMT were crammed into about 2-1/2. Get too many 341s? Back to your flight. Miss your scheduled appointment without good reason? Fail a required training component? Ditto.

PAs were also considered 'TI targets' - and it was open season! Out of four in my flight identified as PA candidates, I was the only one to finish it successfully. Even then I was still looking over my shoulder until I got to tech school at Lowry AFB, expecting a TI to pull me off the line and recycle me. PA is no longer offered at basic training - everyone goes through the full program these days.

[Capt Rivera]

Due to being in CAP as a Sr member with nothing accomplished...
- Enlisted as E-2
- HS diploma and selected job equaled E-3 for me as soon as I showed my degree.

Paid as E-3 all through basic. Did not try to hide, did not try to stand out. Did do my best and that was enough.
= No honor guard but I did get bumped to element leader which makes honor grad harder in my opinion....  Our honor grad had no extra responsibilities but... YMMV

At Tech School I made Yellow Rope and would have been selected for red if my training did not get cut short. For the 2 weeks I was there after the last red rope left, there was no red rope.

My class ended 3 or so weeks early because some idiots got caught huffing... they got the boot which made my class smaller... smaller classes are allowed to work at an accelerated pace...  hence leaving early...

I missed distinguished grad by .5 points or whatever they called the person with the highest test average... and came home with a letter from the instructor apologizing for not submitting the paperwork for the best wrench award (whatever that was called). His letter basically said that the award was mine and that he missed his cutoff for submitting for it due to dealing with other admin issues... (the huffers I assume)... He told me his boss wanted to show him the importance of time management...
- never did get to thank his boss for that lesson... 
- 7 years later... I now happen to work with the guy who won distinguished grad... we might go to 7 level school together... Should make it fun/interesting

So my point... I wouldn't paint a target on my forehead... but you should go and do what you need to do, to the best of your ability...

YMMV when talking to recruiters about what you can get... Try... you never know... and if they promise something... get it in writing like I did .

At basic, if asked a question, answer truthfully, if not asked a question or the question does not apply, your answer will provide a quick example to everyone else. 

TI's know the game . They know that people are told what not to do... They do look for leaders who will step up despite this, they are not looking for someone who just wants glory but appears not to have any honor...

Figure out what works best for you, as all experiences and perceptions are different.

That's my advice for your friend... hope it helps.....

[SaBeR33]

E-4 out of a tech school?

E-4: 36 months TIS with 20 months TIG, or 28 months TIG, whichever occurs first.

1A831 (Airborne Cryptologic Linguist) Tech School = 23 months.

Even with that, you're not going to get E-4 while you're in tech school.  But, what he was saying is that "BTZ E-4" (which is "below the zone" - pin on early) chances increase with things like honor grad, "rope" duty, etc.  So those small leadership positions, awards increase your chances of early promotion.

Don't forget about target training at Goodfellow AFB. That adds a few months of TIS and TIG for the 1N3's and possibly the 1A8's, which could give enough TIG (most 1N3's opt for the six year enlistments to get A1C) to qualify them for a BTZ promotion to SrA. I saw a few 1N3's arrive at Ft. Meade with SrA since they received it BTZ.

[cap235629]

E-4 out of a tech school?

E-4: 36 months TIS with 20 months TIG, or 28 months TIG, whichever occurs first.

1A831 (Airborne Cryptologic Linguist) Tech School = 23 months.

Even with that, you're not going to get E-4 while you're in tech school.  But, what he was saying is that "BTZ E-4" (which is "below the zone" - pin on early) chances increase with things like honor grad, "rope" duty, etc.  So those small leadership positions, awards increase your chances of early promotion.

Don't forget about target training at Goodfellow AFB. That adds a few months of TIS and TIG for the 1N3's and possibly the 1A8's, which could give enough TIG (most 1N3's opt for the six year enlistments to get A1C) to qualify them for a BTZ promotion to SrA. I saw a few 1N3's arrive at Ft. Meade with SrA since they received it BTZ.

I went through Basic Training and MP School with a guy who came in as a Specialist E-4.  He had 3 years JROTC and was able to pass the old SQT test.  I also had a friend who enlisted in the Naval Reserve in a SeaBee unit and he enlisted as an E-5 (PO2?) because of his construction experience

[Major Carrales]

So, we could see incidents of USAF Airmen entering having taken the Air Command and Staff College via CAP?

[SaBeR33]

E-4 out of a tech school?

E-4: 36 months TIS with 20 months TIG, or 28 months TIG, whichever occurs first.

1A831 (Airborne Cryptologic Linguist) Tech School = 23 months.

Even with that, you're not going to get E-4 while you're in tech school.  But, what he was saying is that "BTZ E-4" (which is "below the zone" - pin on early) chances increase with things like honor grad, "rope" duty, etc.  So those small leadership positions, awards increase your chances of early promotion.

Don't forget about target training at Goodfellow AFB. That adds a few months of TIS and TIG for the 1N3's and possibly the 1A8's, which could give enough TIG (most 1N3's opt for the six year enlistments to get A1C) to qualify them for a BTZ promotion to SrA. I saw a few 1N3's arrive at Ft. Meade with SrA since they received it BTZ.

I went through Basic Training and MP School with a guy who came in as a Specialist E-4.  He had 3 years JROTC and was able to pass the old SQT test.  I also had a friend who enlisted in the Naval Reserve in a SeaBee unit and he enlisted as an E-5 (PO2?) because of his construction experience

The Army will give E-4 to those with a bachelors degree upon completion of either basic or AIT, but I'm not sure of the specifics. I worked with two E-5's (both 96J's) who made E-4 this way. Both made E-6 shortly after I made E-5 (I was AF). One was a good NCO; the other I wouldn't have pissed on if she was on fire.  Everyone in the office--to include our supervisor--was glad to see her finally leave when she PCS'd to Korea. Sorry about the thread derailing.

[Gunner C]

So, we could see incidents of USAF Airmen entering having taken the Air Command and Staff College via CAP?

Possible, but not likely.  One needs to be a major.

Let's best case it:  Spaatz award; Captain at 21 with no FO time.  Major at 24? Then ACSC for a year. Then they enlist at 25.  Yeah, I guess they could. 

But most of these Spaatz cadets are high speed and they go to college and would probably get commissioned. (Unless they're like me and since I couldn't fly, Special Forces was the only thing that interested me . . . and the only way to stay in SF was to be an enlisted guy).

Bottom line:  I don't know if the military allows you to claim that school if you are a CAP grad.  Plus that early in your career, it'd make you a target.