Senior Members entering military

[Orville_third]

OK. I know cadets who earn Mitchell or above are eligible to get advanced rank when enlisting in the Armed Forces. However, what happens if a CAP Senior Member enlists in the Armed Forces? Would some levels of Senior training give advanced rank for enlistees?

(This is a question for someone I know. I'm not planning on enlisting, partly due to various medical conditions.)

[Hawk200]

No advanced rank for seniors based on senior training.

A senior member who was formerly a cadet and earned the Mitchell could potentially do so.

And it would be wise for a senior member enlisting not to even mention Civil Air Patrol until they get to their first duty station. The ones I knew in Basic and Tech school that made a point of telling anyone who would listen that they were in CAP usually had some issues.

[Eclipse]

The majority of benefits count toward your CAP career.

Officer grade would qualify the member for equivalent grade in CAP.

Enlisted grade at an NCO level would allow the member to wear those stripes in lieu of appointed CAP officer grade.

Military professional development such as NCO Academy can substitute for CAP training in regards to PD Levels (SLS, ACSC, etc.).

ACSC and a few other classes offered for CAP members might help a military career as you won't generally see enlisted personnel with those on their resume.

[Flying Pig]

Joining as a Senior Member, no having been a cadet with a Mitchell award gets you nothing in the way of advanced rank, etc.  A Mitchell Award would get you E-3.

As Hawk said, youd be better off just keeping that to yourself.  Honor Grad, Sq. Leader, whatever,  from boot camp means nothing.  The day you  graduate, nobody cares and youll never be asked again.  Just get through it and move on. 

When I was in the Marines, I got out as a Sgt after 4 yrs.  I ran into my Company Honor man, and he was still a LCpl./E-3.
In the military, mentioning CAP would probably equate you to having been in a youth organization.

[Johnny Yuma]

Consider that this is coming from someone who never served, but tried to:

The advice I got from everyone who was RM was to be the most invisible recruit in the flight/platoon until after tech school. Make sure they have a copy of your Mitchell in your file for the extra pay and make no more mention of it during training. Otherwise you become an example.

[Short Field]

Excel in basic training and tech school based on how you perform there.  Don't hold back - but don't try to make a big deal out of having been in CAP. 

[heliodoc]

Agreed with Flying Pig and others..

Some and MOST of the Army DI's in 1982 and 1983 had other things on their mind....

CAP got me the E# after the Mitchell.....I did not mention CAP 'cuz it just DID NOT matter......

Combat skills and land nav and BMT were FAAAARRRR more important at the time

Everyone who has been there....... KNOWS what I mean

[Cecil DP]

The Mitchell Award will get you to E-3, but so do a number of other things, HS Grads, college credits, drag a friend in with you, special skills. Check to find out what's the best you can do with and without the Mitchell Award.

[Hawk200]

The Mitchell Award will get you to E-3, but so do a number of other things, HS Grads...

E3 for being a high school grad? When did that start?

[cap235629]

The Mitchell Award will get you to E-3, but so do a number of other things, HS Grads...

E3 for being a high school grad? When did that start?

When all the good recruits went to the Army.  The AF had to do something to get new recruits       

[Spike]

Umm...

Actually the Coast Guard offers advanced rank/pay to Senior Members who serve in CAP.  It is based on years.

Wow folks.....this was available on CAPS website a few months ago, as well as a quick search here gave me two separate threads about it.

[NCRblues]

The Mitchell Award will get you to E-3, but so do a number of other things, HS Grads, college credits, drag a friend in with you, special skills. Check to find out what's the best you can do with and without the Mitchell Award.

Not true at all, you must have a high school diploma or certified GED to even enter the air force. The things that will get you advanced rank are, college education (depending on the amount of credits e-2 or e-3) eagle scout (e-2) Mitchell (e-3) or six year contract right off the bat (e-3).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

One thing I distinctly remember is the MTI "asking" new basic trainees who had ROTC experience.

One pipes up and said, "Sir, I have equivalent experience in the Civil Air Patrol..."

MTI: "I DON'T GIVE A FLYING [Redacted] ABOUT THE CIVIL AIR PATROL!  I SAID ROTC!"

I wouldn't even mention CAP.

[Short Field]

I remember the MTI asking the same question.  The guys who piped up became the squad leaders and flight leader.  None of them lasted in those positions until the end of basic training - too much chaos and too many undisciplined airmen to survive.   My advice:  Get your act together first, then get the guys on each side of you squared away.  The chaos of the first couple of weeks will pass and then you can go for the leadership positions.

[mmouw]

My wife recently finished her tech school for weather at Keesler. She had been a senior member before entering the Air Force. She didn't mention the fact she had been in CAP, unless asked. She was one of the honor grads for her flight at basic and later a red rope for her squadron in tech school. This was no small position as the red rope with over 300 students and spending over three months as a red rope. She put in very long days, much more than the average student. I am not sure how it is in the Marines, but honor grad and early leadership positions do make a difference in the Air Force. She will stand a good chance getting BTZ for E-4, not only because of what she achieved early in the AF, but also what she has accomplished in CAP.

She only mentioned CAP when people asked why she knew so much and why she did so well. Of course she also had the benefit of having me and other squadron members that were in the AF to advise her. Her MTI and MTLs didn't know what CAP was until she explained it to them. In fact, I think I may have recruited one MTL.

[Flying Pig]

E-4 out of a tech school?

[jimmydeanno]

E-4 out of a tech school?

E-4: 36 months TIS with 20 months TIG, or 28 months TIG, whichever occurs first.

1A831 (Airborne Cryptologic Linguist) Tech School = 23 months.

Even with that, you're not going to get E-4 while you're in tech school.  But, what he was saying is that "BTZ E-4" (which is "below the zone" - pin on early) chances increase with things like honor grad, "rope" duty, etc.  So those small leadership positions, awards increase your chances of early promotion.

[Flying Pig]

Ahhh.. Gotcha.  a 23 month school?  Holy Cow.

[jimmydeanno]

Ahhh.. Gotcha.  a 23 month school?  Holy Cow.

I don't think his wife is that particular one though...

[mmouw]

Not E-4 out of Tech school, what she did in tech school helps with the BTZ board of review when she is eligible.

[flyboy53]

Speaking from personal experience, without the Mitchell or Certificate of Proficiency, there is nothing. At one point in the mid-1970s a senior member with a COP could also qualify for advanced rank. However, it was my expience that that having advanced rank also required you to be proficient on the job so there were problems. At that point an E-2 or now E-3 would have had a least six months to a year in service and either a 3- or 5-skill level. So, it is better to keep your mouth shut. I was a CAP first lieutenant when I joined the Air Force as a slick sleve. It got really exciting one day in basic training when a friend sent me a photo of myself in a flight suit in front of a KC-135. The TI and the squadron command section thought I was an OSI plant. Funny, the rest of the time I spent in basic was a breeze. I wonder why?

[flyguy06]

These advancements in rank in the armed forces were designed for cadets. I dont think the intent ws to use them for senior members

[AlphaSigOU]

As a former cadink and Mitchell recipient I was able to enlist at the grade of A1C (E-3) when I enlisted in the Air Force nearly 25 years ago. Back in those days when dinosaurs roamed the earth those former cadinks with ROTC/JROTC/CAP experience there were eligible for an accelerated basic training program called Proficiency Advancement. After the 7th day of training those who were identified as 'PAs' at Lackland were handed appointment sheets and sent off to meet basic training flights in more advanced stages of training. It still required a meeting with the BMT squadron commander; even then it was way too easy to fail, considering six weeks of BMT were crammed into about 2-1/2. Get too many 341s? Back to your flight. Miss your scheduled appointment without good reason? Fail a required training component? Ditto.

PAs were also considered 'TI targets' - and it was open season! Out of four in my flight identified as PA candidates, I was the only one to finish it successfully. Even then I was still looking over my shoulder until I got to tech school at Lowry AFB, expecting a TI to pull me off the line and recycle me. PA is no longer offered at basic training - everyone goes through the full program these days.

[Capt Rivera]

Due to being in CAP as a Sr member with nothing accomplished...
- Enlisted as E-2
- HS diploma and selected job equaled E-3 for me as soon as I showed my degree.

Paid as E-3 all through basic. Did not try to hide, did not try to stand out. Did do my best and that was enough.
= No honor guard but I did get bumped to element leader which makes honor grad harder in my opinion....  Our honor grad had no extra responsibilities but... YMMV

At Tech School I made Yellow Rope and would have been selected for red if my training did not get cut short. For the 2 weeks I was there after the last red rope left, there was no red rope.

My class ended 3 or so weeks early because some idiots got caught huffing... they got the boot which made my class smaller... smaller classes are allowed to work at an accelerated pace...  hence leaving early...

I missed distinguished grad by .5 points or whatever they called the person with the highest test average... and came home with a letter from the instructor apologizing for not submitting the paperwork for the best wrench award (whatever that was called). His letter basically said that the award was mine and that he missed his cutoff for submitting for it due to dealing with other admin issues... (the huffers I assume)... He told me his boss wanted to show him the importance of time management...
- never did get to thank his boss for that lesson... 
- 7 years later... I now happen to work with the guy who won distinguished grad... we might go to 7 level school together... Should make it fun/interesting

So my point... I wouldn't paint a target on my forehead... but you should go and do what you need to do, to the best of your ability...

YMMV when talking to recruiters about what you can get... Try... you never know... and if they promise something... get it in writing like I did .

At basic, if asked a question, answer truthfully, if not asked a question or the question does not apply, your answer will provide a quick example to everyone else. 

TI's know the game . They know that people are told what not to do... They do look for leaders who will step up despite this, they are not looking for someone who just wants glory but appears not to have any honor...

Figure out what works best for you, as all experiences and perceptions are different.

That's my advice for your friend... hope it helps.....

[SaBeR33]

E-4 out of a tech school?

E-4: 36 months TIS with 20 months TIG, or 28 months TIG, whichever occurs first.

1A831 (Airborne Cryptologic Linguist) Tech School = 23 months.

Even with that, you're not going to get E-4 while you're in tech school.  But, what he was saying is that "BTZ E-4" (which is "below the zone" - pin on early) chances increase with things like honor grad, "rope" duty, etc.  So those small leadership positions, awards increase your chances of early promotion.

Don't forget about target training at Goodfellow AFB. That adds a few months of TIS and TIG for the 1N3's and possibly the 1A8's, which could give enough TIG (most 1N3's opt for the six year enlistments to get A1C) to qualify them for a BTZ promotion to SrA. I saw a few 1N3's arrive at Ft. Meade with SrA since they received it BTZ.

[cap235629]

E-4 out of a tech school?

E-4: 36 months TIS with 20 months TIG, or 28 months TIG, whichever occurs first.

1A831 (Airborne Cryptologic Linguist) Tech School = 23 months.

Even with that, you're not going to get E-4 while you're in tech school.  But, what he was saying is that "BTZ E-4" (which is "below the zone" - pin on early) chances increase with things like honor grad, "rope" duty, etc.  So those small leadership positions, awards increase your chances of early promotion.

Don't forget about target training at Goodfellow AFB. That adds a few months of TIS and TIG for the 1N3's and possibly the 1A8's, which could give enough TIG (most 1N3's opt for the six year enlistments to get A1C) to qualify them for a BTZ promotion to SrA. I saw a few 1N3's arrive at Ft. Meade with SrA since they received it BTZ.

I went through Basic Training and MP School with a guy who came in as a Specialist E-4.  He had 3 years JROTC and was able to pass the old SQT test.  I also had a friend who enlisted in the Naval Reserve in a SeaBee unit and he enlisted as an E-5 (PO2?) because of his construction experience

[Major Carrales]

So, we could see incidents of USAF Airmen entering having taken the Air Command and Staff College via CAP?

[SaBeR33]

E-4 out of a tech school?

E-4: 36 months TIS with 20 months TIG, or 28 months TIG, whichever occurs first.

1A831 (Airborne Cryptologic Linguist) Tech School = 23 months.

Even with that, you're not going to get E-4 while you're in tech school.  But, what he was saying is that "BTZ E-4" (which is "below the zone" - pin on early) chances increase with things like honor grad, "rope" duty, etc.  So those small leadership positions, awards increase your chances of early promotion.

Don't forget about target training at Goodfellow AFB. That adds a few months of TIS and TIG for the 1N3's and possibly the 1A8's, which could give enough TIG (most 1N3's opt for the six year enlistments to get A1C) to qualify them for a BTZ promotion to SrA. I saw a few 1N3's arrive at Ft. Meade with SrA since they received it BTZ.

I went through Basic Training and MP School with a guy who came in as a Specialist E-4.  He had 3 years JROTC and was able to pass the old SQT test.  I also had a friend who enlisted in the Naval Reserve in a SeaBee unit and he enlisted as an E-5 (PO2?) because of his construction experience

The Army will give E-4 to those with a bachelors degree upon completion of either basic or AIT, but I'm not sure of the specifics. I worked with two E-5's (both 96J's) who made E-4 this way. Both made E-6 shortly after I made E-5 (I was AF). One was a good NCO; the other I wouldn't have pissed on if she was on fire.  Everyone in the office--to include our supervisor--was glad to see her finally leave when she PCS'd to Korea. Sorry about the thread derailing.

[Gunner C]

So, we could see incidents of USAF Airmen entering having taken the Air Command and Staff College via CAP?

Possible, but not likely.  One needs to be a major.

Let's best case it:  Spaatz award; Captain at 21 with no FO time.  Major at 24? Then ACSC for a year. Then they enlist at 25.  Yeah, I guess they could. 

But most of these Spaatz cadets are high speed and they go to college and would probably get commissioned. (Unless they're like me and since I couldn't fly, Special Forces was the only thing that interested me . . . and the only way to stay in SF was to be an enlisted guy).

Bottom line:  I don't know if the military allows you to claim that school if you are a CAP grad.  Plus that early in your career, it'd make you a target.