Having some coffee and want to talk about uniforms...

[hatentx]

While I see your points and kind of agree with them to a point the fact of the matter is we are a nation at war and when you are not at war you want to time to do what you want.  We dont do Pay Day function or anything of that sort.  Could that possible incress moral and such???  eh maybe but no more going to the NCO club and having a beer after work that is taboo. 

With a deploment cylce that almost matches 1 month for 1 month deployed to being in the states your time is filled tremedously.  I am fixing to head over again and I have been home 15 months.  I was deployed last time just under 16 months.  In my time back I have been to the field 4 times for atleast 2 to 3 weeks at a time.  Have had to do either a NTC or JRTC rotation which is a month long.  Attend schools, for me was Warrior Leaders course being 2 weeks long, Unit Movement Officers course 2 weeks long (while it isnt a residant course if you have taken the course it is a rough one to start off with.) and that duty has had be working for about 2 1/2 months from 0630 to 1800 or later 5 to 6 days a week pending on inspections.  And for me my time wasnt as filled as other by any means.  My poor Platoon Leader has been gone almost 10 months total.  So in my 15 months back I am "occupied" by the Army 5 or so of those months.  So that leaves me less than a year to be with my family and such, So there is really no possible time that soldiers are going to want or be willing to do these functions where they get dressed up in a uniform that most likly doesnt fit because of all the weight  you gain and lose from all these events plus updating it.  Then the added having to keep these uniforms ready as well!!  Jees I can think of better things to do with my time and money.  Yes I dont have to use brasso and spit shine my shoes.  I understand that they are much simplier but still why bother.  The Army is no longer a place where everyone gets together and hangs out and does everything as a unit.  It is sadly a different beast all together. 

I have worn a dress uniform only a hangful of times.  When traveling for AIT, while on recruiter assistance duty, 3 military balls I chose to go to, Soldier of the Month board, Promotion Board and 2 Class A inspection.  that is 5+ years in. 

The idea of the Military dropping the ball on the professional Image blows my mind!!!  The ACUs are a mulitpurpose uniform.  You can do everything in them.  You can go kill people in Iraq to stand in a parade.  While I will agree that you can tell a huge difference from the Soldiers that had the open ranks every morning in BDUs for a pressed uniform and Shined boot still carry them self better than those who hae never had to do it.  But the fact is you can still show up having a military bearing in the ACUs.  Conduct yourself properly.  When me or any of my fellow NCO show up to work we are the standard.  We may look like trash when we are at the end of work but we show up the next morning looking like we should.  We have most of our lower enlisted the same way.  You have some issues with those that dont care and want out or just a lack of disipline yes I will assure you of that and it is evry where.  However a uniform isnt going to change how a solider is truly going to act.  Given time in a Class B uniform traveling if a soldier is going to act like an a$$ clown then he is going to.  That is not an Issue with the uniform it is an issue with the water down basic training and the thought the NCOs are my friends rather than the idea that we are thier leaders and the guys who are training you to make it back alive from war.

Haha well i think I ranted enough.  I guess that is a little more than my $.02 so save the change I am sure I will short change you all another time.

P.S.  I will say I like the Airforce Idea where you wear your blues on Mondays, I think it is awesome and I wish the Army could be in a place where we do that.  But when the majority of the Army works out of a motor Stables, flight line, kitchen or Hospital that idea just wouldnt do any good.  why more 1/10 of the army be different.

[O-Rex]

VN-era "spitting on soldiers:" 

that was a dark chapter in American History; those who did such things vowed to do it 'better' than those who did before.  Well, they are of retirement age now, had their moment (& opportunity) in the sun, and lo and behold, we're not exactly living in the utopia that many of them had envisioned.

It's like saying "I'm not going to be like my parents" as a rebellious teen, and years later, you find yourself saying and doing much of the same things they did. 

Incidentally, nowadays anyone spitting or throwing something at a servicememeber (or anyone else for that matter) is likely to get arrested for assault & battery.

Back to uniforms-While it's nice that the Army really likes their ACU's, there is still the old tenet of the appropriate uniform for the particular situation or function.

[Climbnsink]

Are we all settled with CAP uniforms so now we can tell the RM how to wear theirs? 

[Hawk200]

Back to uniforms-While it's nice that the Army really likes their ACU's, there is still the old tenet of the appropriate uniform for the particular situation or function.

It's not a matter of it being "nice", it's a matter of doing what is directed by chain of command. Something that a lot of people seem to have a problem with. If there isn't a legal, moral, or ethical problem with a directive, order, or suggestion; then there is no reason not to do what is passed down. The Army justifies it's policy with "we're a nation at war". There is not, as of yet, any problem with doing as we're told. There are places that it is not appropriate to wear the ACU, that's been spelled out. So we "suck it up, and drive on",

"Ours is not to reason why...."

[hatentx]

Well we're not a Nation at war we are having Overseas contigisies (sp) hahaha  Waiting for me Campiagn medal lol

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Consider the source of the order -- the same people who told their entire force to wear black berets, pissing off the elite forces who earned the right to wear such a goofy French thing that they could make it manly.

Flaming begins in 5.... 4.... 3.... 2....

[O-Rex]

Are we all settled with CAP uniforms so now we can tell the RM how to wear theirs? 

I was actually more of a uniform nazi when I was RM than I am now-it's the mellowing with age thing.... 

[cap235629]

can go one better, as a young MP at the JRTC when it was at Fort Chaffee, AR.  I was actually "instructed" by a tdy squad leader to issue commander's action DA Form 1408 traffic tickets for, get this, UNIFORM VIOLATIONS!

That lasted all of about 1 week when a certain Colonel told the PM to "send me that chicken "excrement"  Sergeant"

needless to say we didn't write any more.

But some folks do take uniforms to the extreme.

I have seen all kinds of violations and even watched one young PV2 politely and respectfully remind a full bird that he had his headgear on in the PX.  When the Colonel pointed out that the MP was also wearing his headgear, the MP politely asked the Colonel if he was armed, as he was.  After I chuckled a bit I politely and professionally took the PV2 aside and bid the Colonel a good day......

[NIN]

At Fort Bragg 2 years back (eek, 3 years nearly, now), I prowled the post rather cautiously lest I accidentally run afoul of some of the more arcane Ft Bragg post policies (ie. no cell phone use while walking, no drinking while walking, etc).   

I half expected some sharp-eyed Sergeant Major to descend on me in the PX or something for my jump wings (USAC jump wings are not the same as the standard-issue US jump wings, and thus look like a "foreign award" being worn on the wrong side... ). That would have been a fun conversation. Not!

[Eclipse]

Shows over - a couple pics semi-related to the OP.





Based on the conversations, the vendors there, and some of the keynotes, Health Information Management (EMR/EMH) is going to be HUGE in the next 5 years.  The stimulus package will start pushing dollars towards digitizing records in 2011, and the Guv'mint will start penalizing non-digital companies in 2015.

How big are these companies?  The booth I supported had 24 42" plasma displays, 16 interactive tablets, and other video displays for a total of over 80 systems running at once - this was one booth.  Makes me happy to be an IT guy - a bad economy is only bad if you're on the wrong side of the fence!

[EMT-83]

Eclipse, you're right on the money with EMR. My company is well into a three-year project on converting our 75 offices. The infrastructure needed to make that happen is unbelievable.

Yep, this is a great time to be in medical IT support!

[PaulR]

In the army, we wear ACU's. Nobody wears those green class B's anymore. I think the last time I wore that thing was 8 years ago at my graduation from OCS. In fact, they dont even issue them anymore at Basic training. We "may" wear them once a year at a Christmas party or something.

That is a real shame!  That was a great uniform

[Hawk200]

There is now aparently even a "Ceremonial ACU" where full color patches are worn unless they killed that off.

I saw something about that and I was just disgusted beyond belief...

What pogue in the bowels of the Pentagon came up with that brilliant idea?

I know.  It might be cool for units in ACUs for a parade or something but that would be about it.

CS

It was for formal events. I remember reading about it, but can't remember which message it was in. It did apply only to SSI.

An update. Found the info in a completely different place than I expected it: Army Service uniform message. Paragraph 1A, last couple of lines.

The exact wording is: "LOCAL COMMANDERS CAN AUTHORIZE THE WEAR OF THE NON‐SUBDUED SSI AND SSIFWTS ON THE ACU FOR SPECIAL OCCASIONS SUCH AS CHANGE OF COMMAND, REENLISTMENTS, COLOR GUARDS AND OTHER SPECIAL OCCASIONS."

Kind of an oddball place to put it. I guess it's the same kind of thing that the Air Force did, allowing full color patches on the BDU for awhile so they could still make use of the patch stock.

[RogueLeader]

,snip> In fact, they dont even issue them anymore at Basic training. We "may" wear them once a year at a Christmas party or something.

I was issued my sets of class B's in basic, last summer.  YMMV

[BuckeyeDEJ]

An update. Found the info in a completely different place than I expected it: Army Service uniform message. Paragraph 1A, last couple of lines.

The exact wording is: "LOCAL COMMANDERS CAN AUTHORIZE THE WEAR OF THE NON‐SUBDUED SSI AND SSIFWTS ON THE ACU FOR SPECIAL OCCASIONS SUCH AS CHANGE OF COMMAND, REENLISTMENTS, COLOR GUARDS AND OTHER SPECIAL OCCASIONS."

Kind of an oddball place to put it. I guess it's the same kind of thing that the Air Force did, allowing full color patches on the BDU for awhile so they could still make use of the patch stock.

Makes some sense to put it there, since the only use of full-color patches in the Army was on the service uniform. Had to find SOME place to put 'em....

[NIN]

One of my seniors showed up last night from her current full time gig as an Air Guard cop at the nearby Air Guard base.  In her ABUs.  Which were starched & pressed.

So begins the process of taking all the utility out of a utility uniform.

[notaNCO forever]

One of my seniors showed up last night from her current full time gig as an Air Guard cop at the nearby Air Guard base.  In her ABUs.  Which were starched & pressed.

So begins the process of taking all the utility out of a utility uniform.

It's still a utility uniform, it just looks good.

[Cecil DP]

One of my seniors showed up last night from her current full time gig as an Air Guard cop at the nearby Air Guard base.  In her ABUs.  Which were starched & pressed.

So begins the process of taking all the utility out of a utility uniform.

It's still a utility uniform, it just looks good.

When the Armed Forces began BDU's and all the other configurations of utility uniforms they were allegedly "thermal resistant" and were all designated non-starch to maintain the ability not to give out a heat signature. Yet within 5 years all the uniforms suddenly become starchable. Which if you're in a unit which wears these units on a daily basis adds about $200 a year to the soldiers maintenance costs. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

A long long time ago...In a galaxy far far away.
Returning from an all expenses paid vacation to a tropical paradise, I flew from that paradise to Hawaii in a C-141, then (after an RON), onto Travis AFB.  We were required to fly in uniform on a C-141. On arival at Travis we were ushered to a room in the terminal where we were instructed to change into civilian clothes, so we did not cause any problems on leaving the base.  Seems there were some patriotcally challenged folks ready outside the gate with buckets of blood, rocks, spit, sticks, and "Murderer!!" signs to welcome us home.
To this day when I see someone in a uniform (any US uniform), especially in an airport with a duffel bag, I go out of my way to stop them and say "Thank You", and Welcome Home, or Godspeed,  Nobody should have been welcomed home like we were. Even a uniform worn wrong or inappropriately is still the uniform of our nation and the wearer has signed the blank check for any amount up to and including their life.

Travis, being within a dollar's worth of gas from San Francisco, was pretty famous for shoddy treatment of returning warriors.

In April, 1970 I returned from Beautiful, Sunny, South Vietnam, and was loaded on a Navy-gray school bus for further transport to Treasure Island.  A 1st class petty officer warned us to close the windows, since there were "Protesters" at the gate.  We were ordered to refrain from flipping them off, mooning them, or reacting in any way to their taunts.

I looked out the window at the dregs of humanity, absolutely disgusted at what I saw, and one of the miscreants decided to hocker on my bus window.

Now, of course, the Political Correct crowd claims that never happened.  It did, I saw it, and I have never (for 39 years this month) forgotten it.

Travis is closed, a dollar in gas won't get you that far anymore, but San Francisco hasn't changed any.

I'm sure Mr. Hockerman is a Democratic congressman from California by now, or an aide to Nancy Pelosi.

[PHall]

Travis is closed They must have done it last night because it was open yesterday.