Having some coffee and want to talk about uniforms...

[notaNCO forever]

There is now aparently even a "Ceremonial ACU" where full color patches are worn unless they killed that off.

I saw something about that and I was just disgusted beyond belief...

What pogue in the bowels of the Pentagon came up with that brilliant idea?

A former CAP member who missed are colorful patches.

[flyguy06]

Right now I'm doing some vendor support for a HUGE medical information system conference in the Midwest - I found your stimulus money, its right here, literally.

Anyway, there's a pretty big military presence here, certainly big enough to notice, especially when the lion's share of your gig is waiting for something which is pretty stable to break.

So far I've seen USAF, USN & USA officers and NCOs in various flavors, but something struck me - the USAF and USN are in service dress, but the Army guys are all in ACU's.

Also, I've seen plenty of single & double bars, oaks, and even a bird (first time I've seen an active USAF person wearing the cardigan sweater), but the Army guys are all Lt. Cols.

So...nothing to do with CAP, really, but I don't have anywhere else to ask something like this, and the only place I can get wifi is at the closed SB downstairs....

In the army, we wear ACU's. Nobody wears those green class B's anymore. I think the last time I wore that thing was 8 years ago at my graduation from OCS. In fact, they dont even issue them anymore at Basic training. We "may" wear them once a year at a Christmas party or something.

[citizensoldier]

There is now aparently even a "Ceremonial ACU" where full color patches are worn unless they killed that off.

I saw something about that and I was just disgusted beyond belief...

What pogue in the bowels of the Pentagon came up with that brilliant idea?

I know.  It might be cool for units in ACUs for a parade or something but that would be about it.

CS

[tarheel gumby]

When I was in the NG there was never a question as to when to wear which uniform. The BDU's were for field and training only not for any other occasions unless specified by a higher command. But I was in an MP unit, with what may be considered a spit & polish fixiation.

[Hawk200]

There is now aparently even a "Ceremonial ACU" where full color patches are worn unless they killed that off.

I saw something about that and I was just disgusted beyond belief...

What pogue in the bowels of the Pentagon came up with that brilliant idea?

I know.  It might be cool for units in ACUs for a parade or something but that would be about it.

CS

It was for formal events. I remember reading about it, but can't remember which message it was in. It did apply only to SSI.

[Smithsonia]

The Story: The Pentagon received so many reports of military personnel being praised while in their ABU/ACUs (civilians naturally assumed that in these uniforms the military personnel were going to or from combat) that they have made the decision to allow each command to decide upon proper travel wear. This discussion goes back to 2005/6.

Unstated - is the likely-hood that wear and tear on the Battle Dress is cheaper than the Class-Alpha and Battle Dress is more comfortable to travel in. So think of it as showing the flag, good for morale, good for finances, and so was an intelligent thing to do... imagine that.

[Flying Pig]

I remember as a young Marine Sgt. I was headed home for leave, wearing my Alphas.  My flight was late, which made me late for my connection.  I was running down the terminal in Denver ( I believe) and saw the jet had already been pushed back and was starting to taxi away.  Some guy in a suit asked me if that was my flight.  I stated "Yes Sir, it WAS."  He then pulled a walkie-talkie out from under his suit jacket and said, "Instruct Flight XXX to taxi back up to the jetway."  I was somewhat shocked.  I dont know who the guy was, but everyone called him "Sir". 
The little tug drove out because the jet had to be pushed back so the plane could make the turn back into the parking area.  They extended the jetway, and I got on.  I had some of the oddest stares like "Who the heck is this guy?" kind of looks.  And I got free drinks the entire way to CA.

I dont know who this is, just an example of what Alphas are.

[Stonewall]

Not to mention they were acting like kids. 

Yeah, because that's exclusive to the Army.  I've never seen anyone from another branch of service screwing around.  

Perhaps it was my upbringing in the Army in the early and mid-90s, but I still avoid wearing uniforms off base as much as possible.  In DC, in and around the Pentagon, you'll see uniforms of all sorts in restaurants, bars, malls, fast food, etc.  In my opinion, you can't expect someone who wears BDUs ACU/ABU/Cammies all day on base, who has to run off base to take care of something to switch into Class Bs.

I agree that if you are not serving in a combat unit, then you should be wearing your service uniform to work daily.  Same thing for AF types who are no longer on flight status wearing flight suits to work at the Pentagon or to an office.  "I've got 4,000 hours, you're not taking my flight suit away..."  Whatever  

The only "no go" in my opinion, and there is no excuse for this, is wearing the PT uniform anywhere but for PT.

For those of us in the Guard/Reserves, as far as I am concerned I have no use for service uniforms.  I was issued the same amount of blue uniforms as the active duty Air Force.  We have to come up with a reason to wear our blues, which is always December drill's blues inspection.  People jump through hoops to get their blues together for what?  The next time they wear them is 12 months away for the same reason.

I think ANG/RES personnel should only be issued ABU/ACU/Cammies until you make NCO or something.  I've got about $1,000 worth of uniforms taking up a lot of space in my closet at home.

BTW...Was at Exit 1 on I-95 in Georgia yesterday which is the exit for Kings Bay Sub Base about 5 minutes down the road.  At the gas station/mini-mart I saw a Marine (not a Navy HM) pumping gas in his Camies without his cover on.  He then walked 40 feet from his vehicle into the store...without his cover on.  I even commented to my wife to put her BDU hat on when she began to get out of the car and head in.  She rolled her eyes at me and I reminded her that she's an NCO (ask my wife, I say this to her all the time).   He may have been a reservist, but I doubt it.

[Flying Pig]

Not to mention they were acting like kids. 

Yeah, because that's exclusive to the Army.  I've never seen anyone from another branch of service screwing around.  

Perhaps it was my upbringing in the Army in the early and mid-90s, but I still avoid wearing uniforms off base as much as possible.  In DC, in and around the Pentagon, you'll see uniforms of all sorts in restaurants, bars, malls, fast food, etc.  In my opinion, you can't expect someone who wears BDUs ACU/ABU/Cammies all day on base, who has to run off base to take care of something to switch into Class Bs.

I agree that if you are not serving in a combat unit, then you should be wearing your service uniform to work daily.  Same thing for AF types who are no longer on flight status wearing flight suits to work at the Pentagon or to an office.  "I've got 4,000 hours, you're not taking my flight suit away..."  Whatever  

The only "no go" in my opinion, and there is no excuse for this, is wearing the PT uniform anywhere but for PT.

For those of us in the Guard/Reserves, as far as I am concerned I have no use for service uniforms.  I was issued the same amount of blue uniforms as the active duty Air Force.  We have to come up with a reason to wear our blues, which is always December drill's blues inspection.  People jump through hoops to get their blues together for what?  The next time they wear them is 12 months away for the same reason.

I think ANG/RES personnel should only be issued ABU/ACU/Cammies until you make NCO or something.  I've got about $1,000 worth of uniforms taking up a lot of space in my closet at home.

BTW...Was at Exit 1 on I-95 in Georgia yesterday which is the exit for Kings Bay Sub Base about 5 minutes down the road.  At the gas station/mini-mart I saw a Marine (not a Navy HM) pumping gas in his Camies without his cover on.  He then walked 40 feet from his vehicle into the store...without his cover on.  I even commented to my wife to put her BDU hat on when she began to get out of the car and head in.  She rolled her eyes at me and I reminded her that she's an NCO (ask my wife, I say this to her all the time).   He may have been a reservist, but I doubt it.

Im glad you agree with me.   Yeah, your right.  Every service has their 1% as they say.  This particular time, it was the Army's 1%.  Being Infantry, I have trained with Paratroopers and Rangers from Benning and Bragg, and everyone of those guys were top notch. Shoot, I practically lived in your old Barracks at Fort Myers on the weekends!  A buddy of mine was in Delta Co.
Later on, as an Infantry guy in the Army Reserves, (Yes, they used to have Infantry) I had the opportunity to work with some Soldiers that were former Green Berets, my Plt Sgt was former SF as well. I learned some things from them that the Marines had never even touched on.  My unit was right next door to the 19th Special Forces Group in Los Alamitos which was neat also.  These guys were as hard charging dudes.  When I was in the Marines, as a junior NCO, I was in charge of the Pork Chop Platoon after the day ended.  Meaning I had to PT with the PT Test failures to get them back up to speed.  These were basically guys who wanted out and decided getting fat was the best way. That was definitely .9% of the Marine Corps 1% right there.

Back to the subject......You dont see other branches traveling in BDU's, I just think its odd the Army does.

[Stonewall]

Back to the subject......You dont see other branches traveling in BDU's, I just think its odd the Army does.

Navy does every day.  Well, DCUs.  Local Navy Base sends their MA's out of Jacksonville in DCUs all the time.  In fact, last year when I flew up to Boston an MA1 sat next to me in DCUs. 

I personally haven't seen AF folks in BDUs in the airports, but Navy and Army, absolutely.  Heck, the AF flies its folks in civilian clothes on military aircraft.  I flew to PR with 40 other people from WV to PR on a C-130 for a "deployment" and we were in civies.  Same thing with my wife.  She flew to Wisconsin on a C-130 from GA in civies.

[Flying Pig]

^Thats IT!   Wives on C-130's, West Virginians in Puerto Rico, the world is crumbling under our feet.

[Stonewall]

 Wives on C-130's,

She is in the Air Guard...

[NIN]

I personally haven't seen AF folks in BDUs in the airports, but Navy and Army, absolutely.  Heck, the AF flies its folks in civilian clothes on military aircraft.  I flew to PR with 40 other people from WV to PR on a C-130 for a "deployment" and we were in civies.  Same thing with my wife.  She flew to Wisconsin on a C-130 from GA in civies.

I have seen AF guys in the airport in BDUs (and ABUs).  Hell I've seen a Marine or two in digis, but by far they fly in Alphas or Deltas.  (I only ever see Navy dudes in their crackerjack outfit or the all-black outfit)

For the Army Cadets, we're required to travel in uniform (long story, but it involves insurance coverage, at least, that's what I've been told,  and since we tend to be doing a lot of stuff in ACUs and usually need to "hit  the ground running" at the destination, it makes sense to travel in ACUs.  But that's another discussion)   Someone from CAP said to me "You need to stop that. I never see officers traveling in ACUs.."   Well, that's BS, I've seen field grade officers flying commercial in ACUs, nearly every time I fly.

Bottom line is: the definition of ACUs/BDUs/DCUs/digis/CUUs/ABUs as a "work-only" uniform is fast going away.  My commander WIWAC was an AF Security Forces MSgt who only wore fatigues when there was a high probability of "getting dirty" (not even "working").  And that was his philosophy: Fatigues are a "work" uniform.  For everything else, climb your happy butt into a set of short sleeve blues. And if you're an officer or a senior NCO, wear a tie.

That's soooo 1970s.

[RogueLeader]

Again, as a former Marine and former Soldier.....I think they need to save the cammies for the field.  I have a question for the current Army Soldiers.  Are you directed to wear the ACUs, for example, when traveling, or is it a choice?

When I got out of BCT and AIT, we were required to wear ACU's.  As far as going to schools and such, I'm not sure.  On leave and the such is person's perogative.

[RiverAux]

I don't think we should stand for the Army trying to pretend like they're CAP members by wearing full color patches.  Thats just outrageous! 

[Hawk200]

  Not to mention they were acting like kids. 

Yeah, because that's exclusive to the Army.  I've never seen anyone from another branch of service screwing around.  

About the only way I can address that is to snicker knowingly, and give a hearty "Preach on, brother!"

Perhaps it was my upbringing in the Army in the early and mid-90s, but I still avoid wearing uniforms off base as much as possible.  In DC, in and around the Pentagon, you'll see uniforms of all sorts in restaurants, bars, malls, fast food, etc.  In my opinion, you can't expect someone who wears BDUs ACU/ABU/Cammies all day on base, who has to run off base to take care of something to switch into Class Bs.

Even in the Air Force of the late '80's, early '90's, BDU's were only for essential stops. Getting gas, going through a drive through, maybe grabbing a newspaper. It still surprised me when I saw people off base sitting down at Burger King, Arby's, Outback while wearing BDU's.

I agree that if you are not serving in a combat unit, then you should be wearing your service uniform to work daily.

I would hope you thought about a few caveats to that. I was a telephone installer while Air Force and had to crawl through ceilings, under floors, up on trucks, some guys climbed poles (I never did), and more than a few times was in the utilidoor system (which was steamy, greasy, and no telling how many times people whizzed in there). I would hope that I wouldn't need to be in a combat unit to be able to wear BDU's.

Same thing for AF types who are no longer on flight status wearing flight suits to work at the Pentagon or to an office.  "I've got 4,000 hours, you're not taking my flight suit away..."  Whatever  

I would extend that to all branches. There are guys here wearing flight uniforms when they aren't flying, and many wearing them that never have. Got three in my locker, and haven't worn them once since I didn't get a flight slot.

The only "no go" in my opinion, and there is no excuse for this, is wearing the PT uniform anywhere but for PT.

Agreed, as long as "home station" is put out there. Over here, that's off duty clothing.

For those of us in the Guard/Reserves, as far as I am concerned I have no use for service uniforms.  I was issued the same amount of blue uniforms as the active duty Air Force.  We have to come up with a reason to wear our blues, which is always December drill's blues inspection.  People jump through hoops to get their blues together for what?  The next time they wear them is 12 months away for the same reason.

I got issued a batch when I joined the Air Guard. Had to wear them in weather school. Still had a few shirts that I didn't use for Air Force duty. I wear them now, just with CAP insignia. Did the same with a few BDU sets as well.

I think ANG/RES personnel should only be issued ABU/ACU/Cammies until you make NCO or something.  I've got about $1,000 worth of uniforms taking up a lot of space in my closet at home.

I could understand fewer uniforms for the Reserve components, but still think they should be issued.

BTW...Was at Exit 1 on I-95 in Georgia yesterday which is the exit for Kings Bay Sub Base about 5 minutes down the road.  At the gas station/mini-mart I saw a Marine (not a Navy HM) pumping gas in his Camies without his cover on.  He then walked 40 feet from his vehicle into the store...without his cover on.  

Been to the Subase there. Quite a few Reservists, both Marine and Navy. And they tend be a little more lax. Not an excuse, just a note on what I saw. The post is fairly nice.

[O-Rex]

As for the "Ceremonial ACU," the Army was probably trying to figure out what they are going to do with the bazillions of full-color patches still in the supply system that will become obsolete when they go to blues.  I call it the "Vanguard Factor."   

Speaking of blues, this thread actually explains, in a round about way, why the Army is doing away with Service Greens:  Over the years you average soldier is wearing them less & less.  When I was a soldier in the early 80's we wore them at the end of the month for 'payday activities,' social functions and wearing them for travel was an on & off thing, depending on the political climate around the world at the time.  By the end of the decade I was only wearing them for Official DA photos and sat on one court-martial.

I'm long out of the service, and work in an office in polos & khaki pants where 10 years ago it was dress shirts & ties, not to mention that the Tuxedo has become much more suit-like, and I can't remember the last time I saw a young lady in a dress outside of church: America has certainly become more casual.

But the military has always had a penchant for the anachronistic: its part of the mystique.

Now you see ACU's in airports, the pentagon, recruiters wear them etc. etc.  GWOT or not, Personally I don't think it's very professional: why do you need to be camoflaged in Podunk, USA?  We're at war: gee, no kidding.  When I was a kid, we were embroiled in a 12-year war, and I didn't see a whole lot of soldiers running around in jungle fatigues in my hometown.

Maybe I'm 'old school,' but a combat/work uniform outside of the theater of ops, or even a military base screams "I'm too lazy to make myself presentable to the public."  And it's the 21st Century, with wash & wear fabrics, gold-plated insignia (recently asked one young solder about brasso: he replied "huh??") and corfam shoes, so prep time is minimal compared to when some of us where soldiers.

It's a proven fact that a soldier actually carries himself/herself differently when in Class A's or B's....

Sooner or later they'll get an Army Chief of Staff who will put an end to all that, and prescribe the proper uniform for the proper event and place. 

[Grumpy]

". . . When I was a kid, we were embroiled in a 12-year war, and I didn't see a whole lot of soldiers running around in jungle fatigues in my hometown."

Could one reason be if you were in uniform you got spit on?

"And it's the 21st Century, with wash & wear fabrics, gold-plated insignia (recently asked one young soldier about brasso: he replied "huh??") and corfam shoes, so prep time is minimal compared to when some of us where soldiers."

I still don't wear corfam.  They hurt my feet and I can spit shine my leather shoes just shiny as corfam anyway.

[MIGCAP]

A long long time ago...In a galaxy far far away.
Returning from an all expenses paid vacation to a tropical paradise, I flew from that paradise to Hawaii in a C-141, then (after an RON), onto Travis AFB.  We were required to fly in uniform on a C-141. On arival at Travis we were ushered to a room in the terminal where we were instructed to change into civilian clothes, so we did not cause any problems on leaving the base.  Seems there were some patriotcally challenged folks ready outside the gate with buckets of blood, rocks, spit, sticks, and "Murderer!!" signs to welcome us home.
To this day when I see someone in a uniform (any US uniform), especially in an airport with a duffel bag, I go out of my way to stop them and say "Thank You", and Welcome Home, or Godspeed,  Nobody should have been welcomed home like we were. Even a uniform worn wrong or inappropriately is still the uniform of our nation and the wearer has signed the blank check for any amount up to and including their life.

[Grumpy]

A long long time ago...In a galaxy far far away.
Returning from an all expenses paid vacation to a tropical paradise, I flew from that paradise to Hawaii in a C-141, then (after an RON), onto Travis AFB.  We were required to fly in uniform on a C-141. On arrival at Travis we were ushered to a room in the terminal where we were instructed to change into civilian clothes, so we did not cause any problems on leaving the base.  Seems there were some patriotically challenged folks ready outside the gate with buckets of blood, rocks, spit, sticks, and "Murderer!!" signs to welcome us home.
To this day when I see someone in a uniform (any US uniform), especially in an airport with a duffel bag, I go out of my way to stop them and say "Thank You", and Welcome Home, or Godspeed,  Nobody should have been welcomed home like we were. Even a uniform worn wrong or inappropriately is still the uniform of our nation and the wearer has signed the blank check for any amount up to and including their life.

My point exactly.  Fortunately we don't see as much of that anymore.  I live in San Diego County and the support for the military is great.