Civil Air Patrol Association

[dwb]

I think it's a bad idea, actually.

An alumni organization takes the time and talent of numerous people, especially when starting up.  And you have to offer something substantive (discounts, conventions, scholarships, fancy glossy newsletters, etc.)

Look at TSA: Even with the scholarships they offer, they're still struggling to shake the perception that it's just an organization for a bunch of old cadets to pat each other on the back.

What is a CAP Association going to do, really?  Especially with a small group of people who already have too much on their plates (*ahem*, Mike) trying to put together something of significance with no mission and a shoestring budget.

And for what?  Increasing awareness?  Look at the budgets and staffing of the associations that can actually increase awareness, like AFA or VFW.  They're funded in the millions of dollars.  Is there a rich CAP uncle somewhere that can foot that kind of coin?  Because you're not getting it from people that are already spending too much on CAP (which, coincidentally, is probably your target audience for membership).

I don't mean to rain on the parade here, but I just think waxing poetic about something that can't realistically happen without people working on it full-time with substantial startup capital is a waste of time and energy.

[Capt Rivera]

Over a year has gone by.... 20 months for those counting...

What do we as a community/organization think of this past idea today?

[pixelwonk]

meh.

[SAR-EMT1]

With the budget cuts of today, is this something worth revisiting?

[Pylon]

In retrospect?  Not really an important thing on my list of things CAP needs to accomplish in the next 5.  Ultimately, as CAP grows, becomes more successful, and more financially robust?  Maybe.  But not right now.

[Capt Rivera]

In retrospect?  Not really an important thing on my list of things CAP needs to accomplish in the next 5.  Ultimately, as CAP grows, becomes more successful, and more financially robust?  Maybe.  But not right now.

hmmm The next 5.....  Does CAP have a "Strategic Plan"?

Do we have a Vision Statement?.
Do we have a mission statement?
Do we have a list of goals set with a corresponding time line?

[Major Lord]

To form an association to merely support CAP seems to me somewhat redundant. We have such an organization with 501 status in place: CAP, Inc. The real issue to me seems to be frustration on several counts. CAP members feel that they have no voice in CAP to address the issues that concern us all. These include corruption at various levels of the organization, misuse of funds, capricious use of discipline, lack of input over regulations, irresponsible use of Corporate funds, usurpation of our mission, disenfranchisement from our parent organization, and general left-handed -bed-wettingness. Have I missed anything?...sure I have. I see a CAP member sub-org having only one real purpose, that is, to have oversite over the occasionally glaring missteps of the Organization and to have some input in the direction of CAP. Given that there is no mechanism for inititiatives, referenda, or votes of no confidence by the membership, a members' group could be a perfectly reasonable means to provide the representation members want. Good luck with that!

Major Lord

[NYWG Historian]

Something like this (more along the lines of the Association) was tried many years ago.  I don't know a lot of details, but on March 1, 1944, Thomas Beck, president of Crowell-Collier Publishing (and a big booster of CAP from the start), announced the formation of the Civil Air Patrol League, Inc. as an entity "to promote aviation now and in the post-war period in military, commercial and civilian fields."  Beck headed the board initially and it was located at 515 Madison Ave., NYC.

My guess is that in addition to recruiting folks to get involved in aviation (though not necessarily recruiting them into CAP), this was an effort by CAP to find a post-war niche for itself.  Similar to the AFA's mission of promoting the importance of a strong USAF, I believe the CAP League idea was to promote the importance of aviation, with the side benefit of additional public visibility for Civil Air Patrol.  It may even have been the genesis of our aerospace education mission.

[wingnut]

I think the problem  lies in the fact that most CAP members feel as if the field folks are not being represented by the HQ

thats why we blog

I think an association is a good idea, maybe a CAP UNION too

[A.Member]

That it was a rather poor idea a year ago and still think it's a rather poor idea today.   

We are the association.  Each of is a PAO - by title or otherwise.  The idea of establishing a group for what appears to be the simply purpose of establishing a group is kind of silly for our volunteer organization.

[Dragoon]

The one purpose of a non-CAP entity is to have a place to hold money and stuff without Government Oversight.

For example, we went to the Wing Banker program not for efficient finanical operations, but rather for centralized control, so we could better pass a govt style audit.

Some squadrons have "Boosters Clubs" so that they have access to money and items WITHOUT making those things a part of CAP, Inc, and subject to all the finance and logistics oversight.  It works well.

As for being a lobbying entity - that's what CAP, Inc is already for.

As for for being a representative entity for members.  It's not needed.  We each have a vote - with our feet.  If you don't like it - bail.  Volunteer somewhere else.  After all CAP isn't here to help the senior members - it's here to use the senior members to accomplish missions for customers.  As long as there are enough senior members to get the job done, there's no real reason to change the working conditions.

Now, if things get so bad that the good folks are all leaving and the mission suffers, then it's time for a change.   We're not even close to there yet.  Haven't been for at least 25 years.

[thp]

There should be.

By members, for members.

Help with recruiting, fundraising, etc.

[Capt Rivera]

The one purpose of a non-CAP entity is to have a place to hold money and stuff without Government Oversight.

For example, we went to the Wing Banker program not for efficient finanical operations, but rather for centralized control, so we could better pass a govt style audit.

Some squadrons have "Boosters Clubs" so that they have access to money and items WITHOUT making those things a part of CAP, Inc, and subject to all the finance and logistics oversight.  It works well.

As for being a lobbying entity - that's what CAP, Inc is already for.

As for for being a representative entity for members.  It's not needed.  We each have a vote - with our feet.  If you don't like it - bail.  Volunteer somewhere else.  After all CAP isn't here to help the senior members - it's here to use the senior members to accomplish missions for customers.  As long as there are enough senior members to get the job done, there's no real reason to change the working conditions.

Now, if things get so bad that the good folks are all leaving and the mission suffers, then it's time for a change.   We're not even close to there yet.  Haven't been for at least 25 years.

Well thats just stupid! If you love being a part of the organization you should look for ways to improve it!... Not leave it because it is not perfect! How un-American would that be?

Your saying people should let or want it to fail in order for needed changes to be made? I don't want to assume but it seems as though your saying, who cares if its not as good as it could be, and that in order for it to ever get better enough of the people who actually care and keep CAP alive, need to leave and watch it fall?

I hope to God that if that is your view that you do not nor ever will hold a position where you make decisions that affect CAP or its members. [On any level]

If this seems like an attack on you personally... think of it this way... I hope no one who shares your view [if I understood it] has a chance to ever shape CAP or its membership at any level. In fact... they should be the first to leave.

CAP is NOT a flying club! It is NOT the boy scouts either... It should be managed, organized, and advertised better then both!

I hope & believe that under our current General, this will happen.

[MIKE]

Personal attacks are against the MCoC.

[Capt Rivera]

woops.... had 2 many tabs open and posted a comment to the wrong thread... will repost it to the correct one... sorry.

[RADIOMAN015]

Frankly, isn't the reason we all had to put our funds into the Wing Banker program so that CAP would be able to get more grant money since they wouldn't get a qualified audit opinion?  We don't need ANOTHER national association.  Basically if you are going to do something like this, in my opinion do it at the local level as a Booster club.  Some members with many years of volunteer service are still of the opinion that IF a squadron has too much money, the wing is going to find a reason to get some of that money.  Most if not all unit funding is accomplished by the unit's members contributions and not any funding that national hq, wing(s), group(s) are providing to the individual units.  Fortunately, this proposal died!!!     

RM

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