US Army cyber warriors may be excused combat training

[Eclipse]

"Lt Gen Brown told a briefing of the New America Foundation: "For cyber, this must include individuals who anticipate and
adapt to the rapid pace of innovation in the cyber world and thrive in its inherent ambiguity. Many who have these skills are
not natural candidates for a military career.  "They grew up on Google and wear ponytails. We need to look at ways to bring them
into the Army without necessarily going through the same training procedures as our combat troops."

(Just keep the Cheetos dust off the keyboard...)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11289977/Google-generation-US-Army-cyber-warriors-may-be-excused-combat-training.html

command center lol

Full disclosure, I can't find the original quotes on any official sites, and the techsphere are all quoting this UK article.

[coudano]

to help the Pentagon attract badly needed recruits from the ponytail wearing Google generation


lol.

[ColonelJack]

You gotta be kidding me.

I hope this idea dies the death it deserves - and the "general" who thought it up goes with it.

Jack

[lordmonar]

Yes...no thinking outside the box is allowed in the Army.   

[Pylon]

Don't we already have a way for people like this to serve the national interests in this way? DoD civilian employees and contractors.

[Eclipse]

Don't we already have a way for people like this to serve the national interests in this way? DoD civilian employees and contractors.

That was the first thing I thought, although in many cases putting someone in uniform may get them a lot
cheaper then hiring them as a DOD EE or Contractor.

With that said, recent history has shown that neither side of the fence are necessarily more "secure" assets
when working in intelligence. 

I can't imagine that you could put people in uniform and have them interacting with
a normal military command structure and culture without at least the most basic adherence to a "salutin' school"
level of training like a medical professional or similar might get.

[PHall]

You do realize that the New America Foundation is a liberal think tank that has absolutely no "official" standing with the Department of Defense, right?
And with the Republicans calling the shots in the House and Senate these days, their views are probably not received well by the folks who make the money decisions.

[Eclipse]

You do realize that the New America Foundation is a liberal think tank that has absolutely no "official" standing with the Department of Defense, right?
And with the Republicans calling the shots in the House and Senate these days, their views are probably not received well by the folks who make the money decisions.

Yes, though I'm not sure about the relevance to the discussion.

This is purported to be an Army General making the statement, and that's how these things work - they float ideas
in a friendly room to see if they stick to the wall.

[lordmonar]

Don't we already have a way for people like this to serve the national interests in this way? DoD civilian employees and contractors.

Yes and no.   Civilians and contractors become problematical when you start talking about offensive operations.

[Eclipse]

Don't we already have a way for people like this to serve the national interests in this way? DoD civilian employees and contractors.

Yes and no.   Civilians and contractors become problematical when you start talking about offensive operations.

There's also the issue of people who can quit whenever they want to want to vs. people who are under the UCMJ.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Don't we already have a way for people like this to serve the national interests in this way? DoD civilian employees and contractors.

That was the first thing I thought, although in many cases putting someone in uniform may get them a lot
cheaper then hiring them as a DOD EE or Contractor.

With that said, recent history has shown that neither side of the fence are necessarily more "secure" assets
when working in intelligence. 

I can't imagine that you could put people in uniform and have them interacting with
a normal military command structure and culture without at least the most basic adherence to a "salutin' school"
level of training like a medical professional or similar might get.

The quote says other training, not the same or none. I suppose it makes sense...they get "salutin' school" and get issued a laptop with their ACUs. That's assuming it will happen this generation.

[a2capt]

* a2capt imagines the crooked computer dude in Jurassic Park ..

... or McKittrick getting constipated when confronted that his only option is to let the kid (Lightman) on the "computer" .. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

LTG Robert Brown bio here. http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/Bios/cac-commanding-general.pdf

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

What if...somehow their "cyberbunker" gets infiltrated and they have to actually defend themselves?

I would prefer at least knowing which way to point the M-16.

Drill Sergeants must be apoplectic about this.

[kwe1009]

Don't we already have a way for people like this to serve the national interests in this way? DoD civilian employees and contractors.

Contractors and civilians are not authorized to perform certain "offensive" cyber attacks just like civilians and contractors are not authorized to be used as offensive troops on the battlefield.

[JeffDG]

Don't we already have a way for people like this to serve the national interests in this way? DoD civilian employees and contractors.

Contractors and civilians are not authorized to perform certain "offensive" cyber attacks just like civilians and contractors are not authorized to be used as offensive troops on the battlefield.

Perhaps we should start issuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal to the contractors.

[winterg]

The thing that stood out the most for me was, I cannot recall the last time I saw a ponytail.

[PHall]

The thing that stood out the most for me was, I cannot recall the last time I saw a ponytail.

Saw at least three today. All three of them were homeless guys...

[lordmonar]

The thing that stood out the most for me was, I cannot recall the last time I saw a ponytail.

what are you suggesting a LTG is out of touch with today's youth and fashion trends.   

[winterg]

The thing that stood out the most for me was, I cannot recall the last time I saw a ponytail.

what are you suggesting a LTG is out of touch with today's youth and fashion trends.   

No, never.  I'm sure the LTG is very hip to the scene with the cool kids.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The thing that stood out the most for me was, I cannot recall the last time I saw a ponytail.

what are you suggesting a LTG is out of touch with today's youth and fashion trends.   

The LTGs pre-speech briefing must have consisted of this:


Air Force concept:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSI71JSLkiI

[Brit_in_CAP]

Don't we already have a way for people like this to serve the national interests in this way? DoD civilian employees and contractors.

Contractors and civilians are not authorized to perform certain "offensive" cyber attacks just like civilians and contractors are not authorized to be used as offensive troops on the battlefield.

Perhaps we should start issuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal to the contractors.

:clap: :clap:

Classy!

[kwe1009]

Don't we already have a way for people like this to serve the national interests in this way? DoD civilian employees and contractors.

Contractors and civilians are not authorized to perform certain "offensive" cyber attacks just like civilians and contractors are not authorized to be used as offensive troops on the battlefield.

Perhaps we should start issuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal to the contractors.

:clap: :clap:

Classy!

Nice!

[LSThiker]

What if...somehow their "cyberbunker" gets infiltrated and they have to actually defend themselves?

Because their "cyberbunker" is in the US.  We are in a world of hurt if that happens

Really, what they are saying makes sense.  It is basically the same thing we do with medical professionals.  Do we need to send doctors, nurses, PTs, and others through the same combat training as Infantry?  Not really.  So perhaps they are on the right thinking about these technical professionals. 

[68w20]

What if...somehow their "cyberbunker" gets infiltrated and they have to actually defend themselves?

Because their "cyberbunker" is in the US.  We are in a world of hurt if that happens

Really, what they are saying makes sense.  It is basically the same thing we do with medical professionals.  Do we need to send doctors, nurses, PTs, and others through the same combat training as Infantry?  Not really.  So perhaps they are on the right thinking about these technical professionals.

There's still a major difference between Infantry School and Basic Combat Training (and the Officer equivalent).  All Soldiers learn the fundamentals of war-fighting, regardless of whether they're going to Ft Benning to train as an 11B, or to Joint Base San Antonio as a 68V.

[LSThiker]

There's still a major difference between Infantry School and Basic Combat Training (and the Officer equivalent).  All Soldiers learn the fundamentals of war-fighting, regardless of whether they're going to Ft Benning to train as an 11B, or to Joint Base San Antonio as a 68V.

All enlisted do yes, but not all officers.  There is the Army and there is AMEDD.  70 series officers go through Basic Officers Leaders Course (BOLC) (the new OBC).  This is divided into Phase I and Phase II.  Phase I is at Fort Sill or Fort Benning and consists of all AOCs (including Infantry), while Phase II is your AOC course.  On the other hand, MEDPROs (except some 65D) go through Officers Basic Leaders Course (OBLC), which is a school conducted only by AMEDD at Fort Sam. 

Needless to say, it "teaches" new MEDPROs how to live in the Army, but it is far from teaching the fundamentals of war-fighting.  Yes, it "teaches" basic tasks such as orienteering, saluting, M-9 qualification, but it is really a familiarization than a teaching.

So, if the Army is actually considering just teaching cyberwarfare soldiers that are non-deployable MOSs, then perhaps setting up a Signal Corps version of OBLC for them is not that far fetched.   

[Al Sayre]

Or they could move NSA under DOD and then put them TDY to the Army as needed...

[LSThiker]

Or they could move NSA under DOD and then put them TDY to the Army as needed...

NSA operates under the DoD. Their budget and personnel are administratively controlled by the Army. The director serves as the commander for US Cyber Command and is a 3-star General. so that is how they already operate.

[SaBeR33]

Or they could move NSA under DOD and then put them TDY to the Army as needed...

NSA operates under the DoD. Their budget and personnel are administratively controlled by the Army. The director serves as the commander for US Cyber Command and is a 3-star General. so that is how they already operate.

You're almost correct. The NSA's budget and personnel are loosely administratively controlled by the ODNI, not the Army. And yes, the NSA Director (aka the DIRNSA, pronounced "dern-suh") also serves as the Commander of USCYBERCOM, but the DIRNSA is a 4-star general or flag officer while the Deputy Director of USCYBERCOM is a 3-star general or flag officer.

[PhoenixRisen]

Really, what they are saying makes sense.  It is basically the same thing we do with medical professionals.  Do we need to send doctors, nurses, PTs, and others through the same combat training as Infantry?  Not really.  So perhaps they are on the right thinking about these technical professionals.

As someone who is physically fit enough to pass PT tests, has the technical experience, but is medically DQ'd from any type of uniformed service due to medical reasoning, I'm absolutely stoked about this thought!  I know I'm not the only one in the same boat...

[NIN]

Dunno how I missed this one.

There is a fair degree of precedent for this kind of thing.

I have a first-hand example: During BCT, I had a solider in my platoon who was absolutely *horrid* at pushups. As in "We spent 8 weeks pushing and he didn't get any better" horrid.

Come time for our final PT test, I know for a fact that Sam didn't score 42 pushups because our entire platoon was cheering him on as he did about 24 pushups.

Sam graduated with the rest of us, on time.  He'd been given a waiver for his crappy PT score.

A *waiver*? I was incredulous, but Sam was one of my soliders, and darn it, that was fantastic for him. You can't say the guy wasn't trying, but his build (he was very tall, like 6' 2") and body shape (he was kind of "big boned" so to speak) conspired against his chicken arms. 

I bade Sam a farewell as I got on the bus to head to AIT at Fort Eustis.  About 20 weeks later, I'm checking in at my first assignment at Camp Humphreys, ROK, and I have to go to finance. There is SP4 Sam, sitting behind the counter as one of the finance clerks!  Turns out, Sam had a 4 year degree in Finance, and the Army didn't even send him to an AIT: Right from BCT to Cp Humphreys. *pow*

Guess if they need your civilian skills bad enough, they'll waive a lot of stuff.

BTW, this was in 1986.