CAP Officer...nothing more, nothing less and DoD Stickers/Base Access

[arajca]

It's kind of funny, since Buckley AFB changed to contract gate guards, it's been easier for me to get on base. I hand the gate guard my CAP membership card and state DL, guards matches picture on DL with driver (me), matches name on CAP MC with DL, hands them back, and waves me in with a cheerful "Have a good day, Captain." Of course, I usually give them a cheerful time-of-day appropriate greeting while handing the cards over, but I'm not sure that helps. I have heard of CAP and other (incl. some DoD) folks having problems, but usually they're showing bad attitudes.

[DNall]

The biggest issue with me is recognition of the ID as being an official format, and frankly changing the DoD rule to allow access for MCSS/AAFES access unless they're on lock-down or something. Life shouldn't be so hard on our members.

Anyway, to the original point of "be a CAP officer, nothing more or less"... okay now define what a CAP officer is. I don't think anyone is trying to gain UCMJ authority over military personnel, but neither should CAP status relieve you of your responsibility to live up to the stanbdards of our AF-team. A lot of people think that is an out for them, that it releases them from quality uniform wear, continual education as an officer, actual leadership skills, an obligation to duty, core values - especially the service one, responsibility, and anything else that's convenient for them at the time. Well that's just unacceptable. They understand why the military does those things, but then start into a rant about how we aren't the military. Fine, we're not the military, but you should have the pride in CAP to understand it's not supposed to be all that different.

That's my opinion, I'm sure there's plenty others. But, you can't say "be a CAP officer, no more or less," cause the meaning of that IS the debate.

[SAR-EMT1]

Exactly. And the thing is..whether everyone here believes it or not, CAP is a PART of the Air Force team. - Not necessarily the Air Force, but part of the team. Same as the CG Aux.  I know the comparrison is slim to many here but the fact is that they are recognized for what they are, and the "gold side" sees that they have a valid purpose in life. The CG Aux also gets SOME privileges we dont.
Is the issue not so much be a CAP Officer as finding out WHAT a CAP Officer is, and where we fit in with the rest of the AF TOTAL FORCE.
- AD, Res, ANG, Aux, Civilian

If thats done I HAVE to think that that problems such as valid ID, Gate guards, Base privilieges, and the like will disappear.

[MIKE]

Story time:  I was at Hanscom for CLC and was getting some lunch at the pizza house on base...  While waiting in line I got greeted with an "Afternoon captain"... I turned to see a USAF NCO in a Gore-tex... I think I ended up saying like "uh afternoon" or "uh hi"  I just remember it being really ackward... If I can't even return a greeting from a service member, I'll be [darn]ed if I'm gonna go trolling for salutes.

[Stonewall]

It bothers me when people say "we're not real officers" or "this isn't the real military".  Why are people so worried about what we aren't.  No, in the Air Force (guard) I'm an NCO.  In Civil Air Patrol I'm a Lt Col.  I didn't steal the rank, I didn't cheat for it and I absolutely earned it.  I EARNED THE RANK OF CAP LT COL.

When I was 30 and about to pin my silver oakleafs I had second thoughts on the idea.  As if being a 26 year old Major was any better.  But some very wise veterans of CAP and military alike, told me exactly what I said up above.  I'm a CAP Lt Col and that's that.  I've never told anyone I was an Air Force officer nor have I ever expected a salute from an enlisted troop.  Ironically though, I get salutes.  I'm sure a lot of them go by the rule of when in doubt whip it out, but hey, I sharply return my salute and drive on.

I guess I'm just comfortable with being a CAP Lt Col.  No issues here, just carry myself with confidence and military bearing and I've never had a problem.  It is funny when your fellow soldiers, now airmen, find out you're in CAP and give you a hard time, but I know they're just jealous 

[SAR-EMT1]

Can anybody comment on how members of the OTHER services treat CAP types? - Army, USMC, etc...

[Monty]

Can anybody comment on how members of the OTHER services treat CAP types? - Army, USMC, etc...

There were many times my wife (former Army QM Officer) would get changed at work and head to a CAP meeting.

Most of the Army types at her office (her boss too) asked, "what the heck is that?"  She'd tell 'em, they'd say "oh," and go about their business.

Nothing really all that exciting (usually isn't.)

[Stonewall]

A lot of squadrons meet on Army bases or in Army National Guard armories.  My squadron in Virginia met on Davison AAF (Ft. Belvoir).  NOTHING but support and respect.  One time I picked up the keys to the training area on a Wednesday prior to a weekend activity and by Friday they had changed the lock.  Called the MPs who said "cut the lock, we know who you guys are, not sure why they changed the locks without telling anyone".  The Watch Commander (SSG) came out to make sure we were good to go.

Helicopter Simulator time, orientation flights in Blackhawks and Hueys.  Use of their obstacle course and rappel tower, with Army Rappel Masters.  The Army even gave us 2 offices and a huge storage room with lockers. 

USMC?  If we weren't training at Ft. AP Hill, Ft. Pickett or Ft. Belvoir (all Army bases) we were at Quantico MCB just a few miles south of our squadron.  CAP had been using Quantico for more than 20 years and had nothing but support.  Even got to the point where they knew some of us by name.  Read my story above about being on a mission where the USMC supported us.

Coast Guard?  Yep, shut the ELT off on the Commandant's bird one night at National Airport.  Those guys knew esactly who we were and even gave us a tour of their small facility there.

Navy?  Not too much experience with them other than being a cadet where we shut off their ELTs on the SH-60 Seahawks all the time.  They were familiar with us and we even had some active duty Navy types in the squadron back then.  Me and several other cadets had hours upon hours in P-3, F-18 and SH-60 simulators over the years.

I've really never had any problems; no butting heads and no embarassing moments. 

[mikeylikey]

I have found that when you take the time to explain what CAP is and what it does, all the services will support you.  It would be interesting to see which service actually gives the most support to CAP units in terms of meeting space and related support.  I would have to guess the Army (National Guard), since there are more armories.

[DNall]

I guess I'm just comfortable with being a CAP Lt Col.  No issues here, just carry myself with confidence and military bearing and I've never had a problem.  It is funny when your fellow soldiers, now airmen, find out you're in CAP and give you a hard time, but I know they're just jealous 

Well now, that just makes them good targets for recruiting doesn't it?  

I've never had any problem with the military, very cordial in fact, a little bit of fun teasing at times but always with respect. Every now & then there's an issue witha gate guard, which as someone said is more about the attitude of someone that thinks they're there to save the world & now their just bored hot & sweaty wishing something would happen. For the most part they are very curtious as well, and it does help I think to offer I noticablly nice greeting while digging for your stuff, and to concisely explain why you are coming on base without being asked. Make their life easy & they'll return the favor.

Can anybody comment on how members of the OTHER services treat CAP types? - Army, USMC, etc...

There were many times my wife (former Army QM Officer) would get changed at work and head to a CAP meeting.

Except now it's a LOT more work than just switching BDU tops. Dang Army!!

In general the Army is very nice, at least on the guard side. They have SDFs & cadet programs like NSCC running around all the time, so they're a little more used to wierd IDs & uniforms, as well as the kids running around & their parents having to come in & out to get them. I had a problem once at a PX with a new checker & the manager cleared it right up (helped that the reg ref & graphic of our IDs was taped up next to the register). Got a unit down here that a reserve AV unit started & hosts. Can't speak much for active, but in general at least the aV branch is pretty fond of at least our cadets, and certainly has a respect for SaR given the work they do with CSAR.

Coast Guard we do extremely well with, at least the Air Wing here. Used to do joint ops & Ex with them all the time. One mission, they got hits & sent a cutter out, couldn't find so we came in, found an EPIRB off the same cutter laying on the table in the radio room. Funny night. Generally it's all smiles & respect. Just did a thing last month with cadets climbing all up thru one of their helos with a bad azz former ranger batt now rescue swimer doing the tour.

Hadn't dealt much with marines. Done a few missions with navy personnel that were also in CAP, and a few things out toward Corpus, but not much.

[AlaskanCFI]

Only military members and their dependents, contractors (temporary and permanent), retirees and DOD employees are issued CAC (common access card) cards

Now that I am retired it is still a problem with some of the new civilian gate guards.  30 days after I went into the retired ready reserves, they took away my CAC (has a bar code on it for door and computer access) and gave me an old style lamented ID card with a bad photo.  It is a yucky pink color.  Now they think I am some sort of dependant.

Add in a retired NCO car sticker from my wife and me wearing Captains bars on my flight suit, while supposedly being retired and things get very confusing.


You should have seen what happened back before I retired as a State Law Dog.  I was staying on the base one night and they decided that my vehicle was the lucky one to be searched.  I mentioned they might find a few guns and some ammo.  The person leading that confused exercise  was not grasping the Police end of things, just a car full of guns, ammo, tear gas, body armor and other assorted things.  Later after things calmed down I pointed out that they should have searched me as well.  Then I opened my jacket.  

Remember, being sent to the gate is not a reward.

[SAR-EMT1]

Only military members and their dependents, contractors (temporary and permanent), retirees and DOD employees are issued CAC (common access card) cards

Now that I am retired it is still a problem with some of the new civilian gate guards.  30 days after I went into the retired ready reserves, they took away my CAC (has a bar code on it for door and computer access) and gave me an old style lamented ID card with a bad photo.  It is a yucky pink color.  Now they think I am some sort of dependant.

Add in a retired NCO car sticker from my wife and me wearing Captains bars on my flight suit, while supposedly being retired and things get very confusing.


You should have seen what happened back before I retired as a State Law Dog.  I was staying on the base one night and they decided that my vehicle was the lucky one to be searched.  I mentioned they might find a few guns and some ammo.  The person leading that confused exercise  was not grasping the Police end of things, just a car full of guns, ammo, tear gas, body armor and other assorted things.  Later after things calmed down I pointed out that they should have searched me as well.  Then I opened my jacket.  

Remember, being sent to the gate is not a reward.

Thats amazing.   

[Eagle400]

It bothers me when people say "we're not real officers" or "this isn't the real military".  Why are people so worried about what we aren't.  No, in the Air Force (guard) I'm an NCO.  In Civil Air Patrol I'm a Lt Col.  I didn't steal the rank, I didn't cheat for it and I absolutely earned it.  I EARNED THE RANK OF CAP LT COL.

That's a great point, sir.  It does seem to me that there are people out there who are more worried about what CAP is not, rather than what it is.   

I think the reason why there are people who focus on what CAP is not is because of superstitions and stereotypes about CAP and its members.  The aforementioned cartoon is a good example of that.  You have the uptight, wannabe CAP lieutenant being insubordinate to the Air Force lieutenant, who thinks CAP is a joke, calling it a "club."  A Marine comes along and says, in effect, "Well, at least the CAP member is just pretending so he's off the hook as far as the UCMJ goes."

The unfortunate thing is, every time a CAP member seriously screws up and makes CAP look bad, it perpetuates existing superstitions and stereotypes.  There will always be people who think CAP is a joke and full of wannabe airmen, and those are the people who come up with the stereotypes and superstitions. 

The best way to lay these stereotypes and superstitions to rest is to be professional, live both the Air Force and CAP core values, and don't act like a wannabe.       

[Stonewall]

I think the "stereotypical" CAP member that some military members associate with CAP are no different than people taking notice of one bad thing out of 100 good things.

You know, how no one ever notices when you do your job right, but they always notice when you do it wrong.  Same goes for CAP.

I'm not personally attacking any one individual or any member of CAP that is overweight or not groomed IAW Air Force standards.  Everyone has their place in CAP and they also have a variety of uniforms to choose from regardless of their physical stature.  That being said... Could you imagine the overweight ill-groomed senior with a frayed uniform, rank not even close to being sewn on properly with one pant leg tucked in his dirty boots and one pant leg around his ankle?  I have seen it myself, in person, more than once.  That is the person you do not want associating with military members or representing CAP externally.  That same person may be the SAR God of SAR Gods.  But his appearance is the exact opposite of what we try to accomplish in CAP as it relates to a positive image, uniformity and professionalism.

Back in the day, someone PM'd me because of something I said about an over weight CAP member on CadetStuff.  Look, there are heavy people in this world and ignoring doesn't make it go away.  There are people in CAP that make CAP look less than professional; less than military.  That person took offense to what I said and it wasn't much more than what I wrote here in this post.  The fact is, that whether you like it or not, society will judge you by your appearance first, and only after that first impression will they judge your actions.  If you're actions aren't up to par along with a crappy appearance, well you just wasted the work of hundreds of CAP members who do cut the mustard in appearance and actions combined.

The military as a whole frowns on their troops being overweight.  Being "heavy" in the military is a faux paux.  In my wife's Medical Squadron, her TSgt was denied a promtion to MSgt based on the appearance of being over weight in uniform.  Its not an insult, its a fact.  The TSgt, although one squared away airman in her specialty, is not keeping in tune with the "expeditionary air force" mindset.  Fit to fight is the way to go now.  The air force, as best as I can tell, doesn't really seem to have a weight chart.  I'm sure they do but I've never seen it.  But the Colonel reviewing her promotion packet denied promotion solely based on her appearance.  That's no lie or made up story, heard it straight from the TSgt.

[Murph]

Hey everyone - I'm Lt Murphy - yes the guy in the cartoon.  I am good friends with Farva (the guy who writes the cartoon).  I asked him to feature a CAP member in one of his cartoons.  Many of you may not realize that this character, Lt Dahl, is the portrayal of a "typical" USAF fighter pilot - attitude and all.

The message that the cartoon is trying to show - from the authors point of view - is that a CAP Lt should be respected for their dedication and work ethic as much as any other Lt.  He has a lot of respect for CAP and the work we do - all he's trying to do is show that to his fellow USAF members.  Many of them don't even realize that everything we do is volunteer.  In ALL of my interactions with the USAF I have received nothing but respect - my experience with the other branches has been about the same if not better.

Feel free to flame me out as you see fit.

Semper Vi,
Scott F. Murphy, 1st Lt, CAP
Director of Logistics
Illinois Wing
United States Air Force Auxiliary  |  Civil Air Patrol

"The Air Force auxiliary continues to stand above the rest in its dedication and compassion for others," - Lt. Gen. Carrol H. Chandler, Deputy Chief of Staff Air, Space and Information Operations in Washington, D.C.

[Stonewall]

Nothing to flame, I think its an excellent portrayal.  Good job.  Hooah!

[Fifinella]

How do we go about getting a ID card for easy access to an AFB? I live close to MacDill AFB and I here stories of how it takes up to 2 hours to get through the gate without the right ID card.

Only military members and their dependents, contractors (temporary and permanent), retirees and DOD employees are issued CAC (common access card) cards, aka the current ID card used by the military.  Some bases have a "base ID card", but I've only seen those on a Navy base.  YMMV.

Actually, "lowly" military dependents don't rate CACs.  Too expensive.  We get the old-style IDs.

[DNall]

The fact is, that whether you like it or not, society will judge you by your appearance first, and only after that first impression will they judge your actions.  If you're actions aren't up to par along with a crappy appearance, well you just wasted the work of hundreds of CAP members who do cut the mustard in appearance and actions combined.

That's a personal pet peeve of mine.

People see you & make an assessment on your appearance before anyone opens their mouth, that's called a first impression. That means they set a mark for you on the scale of how good you can or cannot be in their minds & no matter what you do after that you can only move up a small fraction from there, that's called they psychology of expectations.

A lot of people think they are great cause they volunteer their time & do some ES. Look, if there's one person in CAP that meets WSAR standards, they didn't get the training in CAP. The greatest SaR-gods we got in this org stack up where against the pros? Most, as in 98%, of our ES focused members aren't by real standards qualified to go into the field as trainees, much less ICs. That's what you're capable of demonstrate to them in actions. In the grand scheme of things, you ain't that hot a stuff, no matter how great you are by CAP standards.

On the other hand, if that first impression associates in their mind that you meet military standards, then that comes with an implied credibility. They suddenly believe w/o proof that you are at least as qualified as any pro sar team, and all you can do from there is disprove their expectations & let them down so they think you're junk. If you go in there looking and acting like the military & saying you're CAP &/or the AF sent you out to take care of XYZ, well then you're going to play into those expectations & people are going to give you the latitude to do your job. Even if NB decided tomorrow & AF funded 50mil to get everyone trained to pro standards, congress passed paid work leave bills & per diem money... even at the end of that we'd still want people to assume we're qualified rather than having to pull out the mile long strip of credentials to prove it. We'd want them to assume we can do the job & then go prove they were right to trust us.

If you want to call that philosophy one of a poser, well I don't accept that moniker. If you think it's unethical to let people think you are something you aren't, then CAP should stop doing ES until it can get its crap together & hold its own next to real experts. You should drop the cadet program while you're at it, cause I doubt we can put enough really qualified officers on line to support it the way it should be. Is CAP a club or a joke or boy scouts with airplanes? Well that's a matter of perspective. I personally think it's a royally jacked up org full of really good people and based on really good things, which result in massive potential for greatness. YMMV

[DNall]

Hey everyone - I'm Lt Murphy - yes the guy in the cartoon.  I am good friends with Farva (the guy who writes the cartoon).  I asked him to feature a CAP member in one of his cartoons.  Many of you may not realize that this character, Lt Dahl, is the portrayal of a "typical" USAF fighter pilot - attitude and all.

The message that the cartoon is trying to show - from the authors point of view - is that a CAP Lt should be respected for their dedication and work ethic as much as any other Lt.  He has a lot of respect for CAP and the work we do - all he's trying to do is show that to his fellow USAF members.  Many of them don't even realize that everything we do is volunteer.  In ALL of my interactions with the USAF I have received nothing but respect - my experience with the other branches has been about the same if not better.

That's great, I didn't go over & look, I hadn't realized that was an actual catroon from him, I thought Joe just mod'd one for this post. Really happy to see that, and dp thank him for us, we do all appreciate it.

[Major Carrales]

If you want to call that philosophy one of a poser, well I don't accept that moniker. If you think it's unethical to let people think you are something you aren't, then CAP should stop doing ES until it can get its crap together & hold its own next to real experts. You should drop the cadet program while you're at it, cause I doubt we can put enough really qualified officers on line to support it the way it should be. Is CAP a club or a joke or boy scouts with airplanes? Well that's a matter of perspective. I personally think it's a royally jacked up org full of really good people and based on really good things, which result in massive potential for greatness. YMMV

Dennis,

CAP is what it is, a volunteer absolutely part-time resource made of Citizen Volunteer Airmen.  The ES we do should not not be stacked up to other standards unless we as CAP are getting paid for it, as real experts do.  It is, however, the needed contribution of Citizens to their Nation's Air Force , Community ,State and Nation.  That is the spirit of CAP.  There will always be those that don't maintain high standards...it is our duty to bring them up.

Fact is that CAP ES is (along with volunteer Fire Departments, the USCGAux and other such groups) a chance for ordinary citizens to take part in their community in a unique and meaningful way.  It promotes awareness and gives peopel to "take ownership" of "Civil Defense." Same for the Cadet Programs.

Don't compare CAP to JROTC or the like because there too it is an unfair comparison.  CAP practically wrote the book on Volunteer Auxiliary Cadet Programs, its mostly based on parents, teachers and public servants assisting a generation of childern understand Citizenship and Leadership by those desriring to exercise Citizenship and Leadership.

I don' t know how many times it has to be said, our program does not have recruiting for the Military at its core...it is a Citizenship and Leadership initive.   In that case, I think we are more than qualified...especially those CP gurus that devote more time to making cadet programs work than most active teachers I know....and without pay.

Dennis, I don't know why you make posts like this.  They send an inaccurate reflection of what I know you to be.  They make you seem like an Anti-CAP type (especially ES, when I know you strive to make it better) and a proponent of killing the Cadet Program (when you have been so helpful to me with mine).