Why do senior members do most of the fun work?

[nathan88]

First i have nothing agains SMs but they seem to do all the fun work such as spotting in aircraft, specialty tracks and many other activities. Also they can sometimes over use their athourity when it comes to the regs. For instance my Sq. Commander (Whom i greatly respect) has changed our uniform hat from a BDU field cap to a baseball cap with our squadron patch sewed on it. His reasoning was that he liked the baseball cap better, he never asked the wholed squadron ehat they would prefer. You should see some of our senior members in their alternate uniforms wearing the baseball  cap it looks very silly and childish. it makes us look more like boy scouts (which i respect as well) than military auxillary men and women.

[Eclipse]

Your use of the term "work" is important.  Most do what they do because they enjoy it, or have a passion to serve, but it's work, don't make that mistake.

As a cadet, your job is to take what you can from the program and use it to grow into a good citizen and productive member of society.  As a senior, our job is to give back to the program and society.

Some of the duties you mention are restricted to those over 18 because they involve complex tasks and a level of maturity - you'll get there.

As to the hat, command is not a consensus, it's a benevolent dictatorship.

[nathan88]

I agree although i think it would be nice to be allowed to have a say in our squadrons decision making and i wish cadets had their own specialty tracks

[Extremepredjudice]

They do. IT, ES, and comms

[SarDragon]

Cadets have a very well defined specialty track - progress from the Curry Achievement to the Spaatz Award. Along the way you will get to participate in cadet level fun activities, which some seniors are envious of, and learn lessons on being a Dynamic American Aerospace Leader.

Since someone else got in before me, I'll address that, too. IT, ES, and comms are SM tracks that cadets may participate in. They do not directly cross over into SM PD.

[Extremepredjudice]

Never said they did.

[Woodsy]

I was never a cadet, because I never even knew what CAP was until I was past cadet age, but sure wish I would have! 

As a senior member, I must admit there are times that I am jealous of all the stuff cadet's get to do but we can't.  You have so many opportunities as a cadet that you won't as a senior, so I highly encourage you to take advantage of them!  You have access to flight training, encampments, NCSA's, and lot's more.  Sure, senior members can participate in some of these programs too, but their goal while doing so is to contribute to the cadet's enjoyment of the experience.

Just pointing out that the river runs both ways!  CAP is a great experience for anyone, senior or cadet.

[EMT-83]

Senior members have more fun than cadets? Right.

[Spaceman3750]

If SMs do all the fun stuff then I must have a deep-rooted, subconscious, sadistic lust for paperwork and coordination.

[Майор Хаткевич]

First i have nothing agains SMs but they seem to do all the fun work such as spotting in aircraft, specialty tracks and many other activities. Also they can sometimes over use their athourity when it comes to the regs. For instance my Sq. Commander (Whom i greatly respect) has changed our uniform hat from a BDU field cap to a baseball cap with our squadron patch sewed on it. His reasoning was that he liked the baseball cap better, he never asked the wholed squadron ehat they would prefer. You should see some of our senior members in their alternate uniforms wearing the baseball  cap it looks very silly and childish. it makes us look more like boy scouts (which i respect as well) than military auxillary men and women.

I would trade with you in a minute to be a C/Amn and 13 again, with no real worries in the world, and my whole CAP cadet experience in front of me.

I'm going to assume (from this and another topic), that you are a relatively new cadet, and are just getting your feet wet in the program. Take your time, read your leadership texts, and absorb as much as you can. Squadron commanders can dictate uniforms to an extent. A Squadron Ballcap is an option available to them. At most activities outside of your unit you will still need to war the BDU Patrol Cap.

That said, keep asking questions, but show respect when doing it. You should have learned by now that as a para-military organization, CAP is NOT a democracy. Your leaders make the decisions, and you have two options: follow orders that are appropriate or leave the unit/program.

[SarDragon]

Never said they did.

It seemed implied.

[Ford73Diesel]

I was a cadet for 7 years and have been a SM for 3 (although not really active since 2008). Trust me, cadets have more fun. When you cross over to the dark side, you'll see. YMMV

[AirDX]

First i have nothing agains SMs but they seem to do all the fun work

Ok, cadet I will happily change positions with you.  I want to go to meetings where all I have to do is show up and do PT, launch rockets, do aerospace ed stuff, do educational activities, learn about things, take an occasional test, and get ferried around in a van I don't pay for.

YOU can take on the job of planning all these things, spending hours doing paperwork, spending hours on the phone rounding up the people and finances to make them happen, and dipping into your own pocket to pay for the pizza, etc.

Fair trade?  I think so.  Let's do it!

[Walkman]

I don't know....

Flight Academies, PJOC, Combat Control OC, Space Command Fam Course, Advanced Tech course, IACE, Encampment, Honor Guard Academy, etc

[ColonelJack]

I agree although i think it would be nice to be allowed to have a say in our squadrons decision making and i wish cadets had their own specialty tracks

Patience, Grasshopper.  If all your wishes came true now, what would you have to look forward to?

Master Po

[manfredvonrichthofen]

 Will admit I have a lot of fund doing my job! I LOVE it. I teach ES and leadership, not moral leadership, but I guess some of it can cross over like ethics and the such. But mostly I teach leadership traits and aspects. I really do have fun with my job, but I make it fun, and the cadets make it fun for me. I wouldn't have as much fun with it if I were in a senior squadron, and if I ever move, o e of my higher criteria would definitely be a composite squadron, most because my children want to join CAP when they are old enough.

I do get jealous of cadets, I miss the encampment stuff and the high adventure things. It was so much fun. Don't get too much in a rush to hit the dark side though. Enjoy it and learn all you can. You will miss it when you are older

[BuckeyeDEJ]

There's a good reason cadets don't have specialty tracks, though I'm not sure what I'm about to say is THE reason. Doubtful it is.

Much as a liberal-arts education exposes you to a wide range of things and is supposed to challenge your assertions and help you shape yourself, so goes the cadet program. As a cadet, you'll get a taste of every aspect of a CAP unit — whether it's communications, personnel, logistics, public affairs or something else. You'll learn about all the pieces and parts that make CAP operate, learn to appreciate how they interact, maybe discover new interests, and hopefully develop a sense of maturity in leadership and management (something many senior members never seem to develop!).

Enjoy a chance, as a cadet, to go whatever direction you want and find what you want to do in the future. Once you're a senior member, you're put into specialty tracks in which you must perform to advance in the program. You have responsibilities in those tracks that cadets don't have but for maybe two months as they learn more about the world around them.

[lordmonar]

First i have nothing agains SMs but they seem to do all the fun work such as spotting in aircraft, specialty tracks and many other activities. Also they can sometimes over use their athourity when it comes to the regs. For instance my Sq. Commander (Whom i greatly respect) has changed our uniform hat from a BDU field cap to a baseball cap with our squadron patch sewed on it. His reasoning was that he liked the baseball cap better, he never asked the wholed squadron ehat they would prefer. You should see some of our senior members in their alternate uniforms wearing the baseball  cap it looks very silly and childish. it makes us look more like boy scouts (which i respect as well) than military auxillary men and women.

First Cadets of approriate age can do fllight operations.
Second Cadets can't do specialty tracks....because they are cadets....the CP is their specialty track.
Third Cadets have many more activities to choose from then most Senior Members.

On the subject of "over using their authority".........welcome to life....you are often going to have to deal with more or less arbitrary rules and changes.  Botton line is that the commander can dictate what uniform (and hat) you are going to wear and he/she does not have to ask for your input or your permission.

As for the ball cap making us look like the Boy Scouts....I wore those ball caps with my BDU's and OD greens for 19 years while I was on active duty.....so you are simply wrong on that point.

Finally......I think it is a little odd that a C/Amn is making such sweeping generalisations about CAP and the Military....you, of course, are entitled to your opinion.....but maybe you should temper your judgement a little, sit back and enjoy the program for awhile before you start knocking it down.

[JayT]

First i have nothing agains SMs but they seem to do all the fun work such as spotting in aircraft, specialty tracks and many other activities. Also they can sometimes over use their athourity when it comes to the regs. For instance my Sq. Commander (Whom i greatly respect) has changed our uniform hat from a BDU field cap to a baseball cap with our squadron patch sewed on it. His reasoning was that he liked the baseball cap better, he never asked the wholed squadron ehat they would prefer. You should see some of our senior members in their alternate uniforms wearing the baseball  cap it looks very silly and childish. it makes us look more like boy scouts (which i respect as well) than military auxillary men and women.

Recently, an order from my primary employer came down that we are not to wear our issued uniform hats except in cases of inclement weather. My response? "Okay."

You're a young Cadet Airmen. Enjoy the program. Spend ten seconds to check your spelling and grammar. Don't worry about what hat you're wearing.

[EMT-83]

There's a good reason cadets don't have specialty tracks...

They're a component of the Senior Member Professional Development program. Maybe that's a good place to start.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I would have to say that so far the "activities" for the most part that SMs have are lecture based, OBC SLS aren't all that fun...

[EMT-83]

I would have to say that so far the "activities" for the most part that SMs have are lecture based, OBC SLS aren't all that fun...

Really? While OBC was kinda lonely (being an on-line course), I enjoy PD courses.

If you're not having fun, they're doing it wrong.

[Spaceman3750]

Some of the best sleep I've ever had has been at PD courses

[jeders]

Some of the best sleep I've ever had has been at PD courses

Some of the best sleep I ever had was teaching PD courses   

But if I could trade places, for even five minutes, with this cadet, I would take it in a heartbeat. Enjoy what you are doing and don't rush it.

[41839j]

It might SEEM to the Cadets that the Seniors get to do the fun work, but the reality is quite different.  Along with the "fun work" you mention also comes all the responsibility.  The responsibility takes the fun out of it.  Believe me, ALL OF US spend our lives answering to a higher authority and not just the kids.  It seems like that isn't true to you now, but you will get it when you get older.

None of us can do whatever we want.  We have to do certain things in our job, to have a job, and to keep a job.  We have to do certain things to take care of our family and keep them.  We have to pay our taxes, we have to obey laws or go to jail....it goes on and on.

We are trying to train you for what is needed to be a success in life.  Nothing would make us happier than to see you go further and be more successful than we have been.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Cadet, (too) many of the Air Force personnel that I've encountered think that the CP is the raison d'etre for the existence of CAP, period, and that the senior members are there solely to ensure that you get (at least) your Mitchell and are "gently urged" to your nearest Air Force recruiting office (read: warm bodies through the gates of Lackland AFB).

I remember a "motivational visit" by a State Director (used to be called LO) who said that almost exactly word-for-word.  Nothing about ES, nothing about AE, nothing about progressing through PD on the senior side.  Just cadets, and only cadets.  The first person I met in CAP (recruiting booth at an airshow) told me that senior members in CAP were there largely "to be counsellors for our cadets" (direct quote).

Also, to my knowledge you have never been subject to punitive action from the Air Force on uniform issues.  You have never lost your blue cadet officer epaulettes or your blue nameplates, and your enlisted/NCO insignia is exactly the same as the Air Force's, with the CAP shield glued/spot-welded on top (take one apart sometime).  All this despite the fact that an 18-21 year old cadet is MUCH more likely to be confused with an AF member than an old guy like me.

So, you're definitely on the "most-favoured" list with the Air Force, in my experience.

[ßτε]

... your enlisted/NCO insignia is exactly the same as the Air Force's, with the CAP shield glued/spot-welded on top (take one apart sometime).

The current insignia is not this way. They are single piece, not a shield glued/spot-welded on top.

[754837]

Enjoy the cadet program & make good friends.  It can be a highlight that you will enjoy for the rest of your life.

[Eclipse]

... your enlisted/NCO insignia is exactly the same as the Air Force's, with the CAP shield glued/spot-welded on top (take one apart sometime).

The current insignia is not this way. They are single piece, not a shield glued/spot-welded on top.

Cadet insignia haven't been 2-pieces since before I joined in 99.  There are still a lot in use as pass-downs, I personally like those better,
but the haven't been sold by anyone in a log time.

[EMT-83]

Anything to turn it into a uniform thread.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Anything to turn it into a uniform thread.

I hadn't intended it to. 

Nonetheless, an adult-age cadet officer with blue epaulettes and nameplate, using the silly "low-light/at-a-distance" criteria, is still easy to mistake for an AF officer.

Noted on the cadet enlisted insignia...it's been a long time since I examined any up close.

My point in including the uniform bit was to reinforce that the AF is still good with cadets looking like them, but not seniors, going back to the most-favoured status I mentioned.

[Flying Pig]

... your enlisted/NCO insignia is exactly the same as the Air Force's, with the CAP shield glued/spot-welded on top (take one apart sometime).

The current insignia is not this way. They are single piece, not a shield glued/spot-welded on top.

The old ones were pretty neat.  I thought the depth it gave them with the separate shield make them look very good.  What was cool is if you popped the shield off, they had the AF star behind the shield.  What is funny is seeing that cadets are still concerned about the same exact things I was when I was a cadet in 1987! 

[Private Investigator]

... my Sq. Commander (Whom i greatly respect) has changed our uniform hat from a BDU field cap to a baseball cap with our squadron patch sewed on it. His reasoning was that he liked the baseball cap better, he never asked the wholed squadron ehat they would prefer.

Lot of CAP Squadrons wear baseball caps. Now the Sq Commander likely talked to others about the switch but not every Cadet or new Senior Member.

[Sgt. Fischer]

I agree. The SM's in my squadron also take all of the squadron money to go on TONS of o-flights in out plane! i've only been in 2 since i joined over 2 years ago!

[Spaceman3750]

I agree. The SM's in my squadron also take all of the squadron money to go on TONS of o-flights in out plane! i've only been in 2 since i joined over 2 years ago!

That's not squadron money, that's AF money. Furthermore, at least in my wing, there's a huge push to get out and fly the cadets - the weather is nice and we have the money (we flew 13 cadets last weekend in my group - for 9 it was their first o-flight). If you want an o-flight and they're flying ask for one, but don't assume that "those seniors are up to something devious" when they're trying to do something good for YOU.

[Al Sayre]

I agree. The SM's in my squadron also take all of the squadron money to go on TONS of o-flights in out plane! i've only been in 2 since i joined over 2 years ago!

Not all flights are Cadet O'flights.  In fact the only SM that should be in the airplane on an Cadet O'flight is the pilot.  O'flight funding comes from a separate pot of money, with very specific limitations on it's uses.  Just because your pilots are flying, doesn't mean that it's an O'flight.  It may be a mission pilot proficiency, CD, SAR training flight, ROTC O'flight or some other flight activity that Cadets cannot participate in by regulation.  I highly doubt that your squadron funds are being used for any of these scenarios as they are budgeted at the Wing or Group level.  Also, if the the pilot wants to pay for it, he/she may be using the airplane to maintain his/her own proficiency.  In fact, in my experience (I've been both the wing DO and DOS, so I've seen both the bills and WIMRS entries for every flight of every aircraft in my wing for the last 5 years) the squadrons hardly ever use their funds for flying unless it is to supplement the Cadet O'flight budget when there are more cadets to fly than the USAF provides funding for.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I agree. The SM's in my squadron also take all of the squadron money to go on TONS of o-flights in out plane! i've only been in 2 since i joined over 2 years ago!

I suggest a modification in attitude, Cadet.

As has been said, the O-Flights are FOR YOUR BENEFIT.

Believe me when I say that there are a LOT of pilots in CAP who will go out of their way to avoid giving O-Flights...the ones in my former flying club senior squadron hated it.

[CAP_Marine]

We (seniors) get to go on O flights now? Rock on! All this time I was wasting my time and energy during SAREX's getting in training sorties when I could have just been flying around for funsies. 

[Sgt. Fischer]

We (seniors) get to go on O flights now? Rock on! All this time I was wasting my time and energy during SAREX's getting in training sorties when I could have just been flying around for funsies. 

Well, i'm not positive you can. i'm almost sure you can though! (at least at my squadron!) so, check with your squadron before you do anything. 

[vento]

We (seniors) get to go on O flights now? Rock on! All this time I was wasting my time and energy during SAREX's getting in training sorties when I could have just been flying around for funsies. 

Well, i'm not positive you can. i'm almost sure you can though! (at least at my squadron!) so, check with your squadron before you do anything. 

I don't think for a moment that Seniors can go on O'rides. The only time I've seen Seniors on an O-ride is when a new O'rides pilot rides along to observe how it is done, even that is very rare.

Otherwise, the rides are strictly for Cadets. The funding are allocated for cadets, not proficiency or any other sort of flights.
Also, each O'rides sortie must be meticulously recorded in WMIRS, and it becomes part of the cadet record. If your squadron is doing it, then somebody is not following the regs.

[NIN]

Years ago, I flew in the back seat on an O-ride when we had a cadet in the front seat. It was back when O-rides could be flown in member-owned aircraft, and there were no such things as "front-seat/back-seat" rides.  We had one cadet left who needed a flight.  I'd been wrangling flight schedules all day, so I said "I'm gonna go fly.."  It didn't matter if the back seat was filled or not, as it did not count toward any kind of a ride then for O-flight completion.

Then again, I took great fun in doing things as a senior that are specifically prohibited from being cadet activities. I figure "If cadets can't do it, someone has to."

[EMT-83]

We (seniors) get to go on O flights now? Rock on! All this time I was wasting my time and energy during SAREX's getting in training sorties when I could have just been flying around for funsies. 

Well, i'm not positive you can. i'm almost sure you can though! (at least at my squadron!) so, check with your squadron before you do anything. 

A quick read of the rules will show that seniors are not allowed on O-flights, except for very limited reasons.

Back before this changed, I rode in the back seat during one of my son's flight. I was proud of him being at the controls of that glass cockpit beauty. Then I thought a bit more - holy crap, he's flying this thing, what was I thinking!

[Sgt. Fischer]

We (seniors) get to go on O flights now? Rock on! All this time I was wasting my time and energy during SAREX's getting in training sorties when I could have just been flying around for funsies. 

Well, i'm not positive you can. i'm almost sure you can though! (at least at my squadron!) so, check with your squadron before you do anything. 

A quick read of the rules will show that seniors are not allowed on O-flights, except for very limited reasons.

Back before this changed, I rode in the back seat during one of my son's flight. I was proud of him being at the controls of that glass cockpit beauty. Then I thought a bit more - holy crap, he's flying this thing, what was I thinking!

Lol! That's what I was thinking when my brother was flying it, and I was in the back seat!