The USO

[abdsp51]

Please refer to AFI 10-2701 para 1.3:
....." 1.3. Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions.CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members.......

RM

Which has absolutely no impact on how the USO, also a civilian organization, operates its (wonderful) business. The USO is no more bound by an AFI than McDonald's is.

Now, having said that, there should be no routine expectation that CAP is entitled to use the (wonderful) services of the USO. However, the USO, at its perogative, can (and has) make its (wonderful) services available to CAP.

+1 if the USO decides to open it's doors and provide services to CAP then so be it.  It is one thing for an organization to offer it's services it's another if someone from CAP tries to use something set aside for others based upon being in CAP.

[NIN]

Please refer to AFI 10-2701 para 1.3:
....." 1.3. Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions.CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members.......

I bet you typed that, with emphasis, from memory.

Because like a broken record, that seems to be the only part you are intimately familiar with.

[RADIOMAN015]

Please refer to AFI 10-2701 para 1.3:
....." 1.3. Status of CAP Personnel. CAP is not a military service and its members are not subject to the UCMJ. CAP members voluntarily perform Air Force-assigned missions.CAP membership does not confer upon an individual any of the rights, privileges, prerogatives or benefits of military personnel, active, reserve, or retired. While CAP is not a military service, it uses an Air Force-style grade structure and its members may wear Air Force-style uniforms when authorized. Air Force protocol requirements do not apply to CAP members.......

I bet you typed that, with emphasis, from memory.

Because like a broken record, that seems to be the only part you are intimately familiar with.

No I didn't, I just answered the others posters selective picking of what is in Chapter 1 of that regulation.    I am familiar with a lot of things in CAP, but I really don't go around memorizing every detail in all those "wanna bee" regulations  

Again I salute that specific USO for helping CAP out of a difficult "Cadet Protection" situation.
RM 

[PA Guy]

[quote author=RADIOMAN015 link=topic=15132.msg277133#msg277133 date=1336938812

Again I salute that specific USO for helping CAP out of a difficult "Cadet Protection" situation.
RM
[/quote]

Your ignorance of the Cadet Protection Program and IACE is only exceeded by your arrogance and loathing of most things CAP and its members.

[PHall]

Again I salute that specific USO for helping CAP out of a difficult "Cadet Protection" situation.
RM

Your ignorance of the Cadet Protection Program and IACE is only exceeded by your arrogance and loathing of most things CAP and its members.

PA Guy - Fixed the quote for you.

RM - Again we ask, why are you still a member of CIVIL Air Patrol?  Aren't you ashamed to be with us wannabes?

[RADIOMAN015]

quote/

/b] date=1336939545]
[quote author=RADIOMAN015 link=topic=15132.msg277133#msg277133 date=1336938812

Again I salute that specific USO for helping CAP out of a difficult "Cadet Protection" situation.
RM

Your ignorance of the Cadet Protection Program and IACE is only exceeded by your arrogance and loathing of most things CAP and its members.
[/quote]

I don't loathe CAP as an organization, and there are very few members that I loathe (and fortunately most have left the program or are inactive).    Regarding IACE, I'd like to point out that this USO support is provided pre IACE and post ICE (and again to the LAX organization thanks for helping CAP :clap:).   I do believe that anyone (and remember those cadets participating in IACE may very well have never been on long flights away from home alone -- That IS a cadet protection issue) who has been travelling for a long time in an aircraft and even waiting in an airline terminal for a long period of time is a potential criminal target.  Everyone gets tired and has the potential to let their guard down .

On the other subject.  I will be perfectly clear -- The Air Force has issued specific regulations concerning CAP, and I think it's a very good idea for everyone in CAP to comply with those regulations.   It would be very difficult for me to see someone from CAP deliberately violating AF regulations, especially on theft of services (benefits) and not report it.  I would likely go to AF authorities and not CAP.  I don't believe that this type of illegal activity occurs very much.  That's the way it is.    
RM       

[lordmonar]

The USO is not the USAF.......ergo your very argument falls in itself.

So.
There is nothing wrong with CAP and CAP member asking the USO for support.

Period....end of story.

The USO is going to do what it wants to do in regards to CAP no matter what you or I think.

Now if you think CAP is lacking in the proper running of IACE.....I am sure that they would just love for you to volunteer...fly down to JFK for the day and help out.

[RADIOMAN015]

The USO is not the USAF.......ergo your very argument falls in itself.

So.
There is nothing wrong with CAP and CAP member asking the USO for support.

Period....end of story.

The USO is going to do what it wants to do in regards to CAP no matter what you or I think.

Now if you think CAP is lacking in the proper running of IACE.....I am sure that they would just love for you to volunteer...fly down to JFK for the day and help out.

Well one has to remember that this is only ONE USO, at ONE SPECIFIC LOCATION, providing assistance to CAP for ONE SPECIFIC ACTIVITY.  It is not the entire USO organization.  The poster of this information even states this disclaimer.

Got to wonder how many CAP units nationwide actually are helping the USO as far as community service (even fund raising assistance)   Wonder if the LAX area units help out much there or even with some fund raising efforts on the USO's behalf :angel:

As far as IACE, IF the USO gentlemen also is a CAP member than I guess CAP has some limited representation while the cadets wait either for their official CAP escort (who really should be scheduled to arrive before any of the cadets arrive anyways) or have to board aircraft individually to return home after the activity.  Likely for all a very long day of travel and potential frustration.
RM
   

[lordmonar]

Again.....if you have problems with the way IACE is planning and provideing for their particpants......I encourage you to join the team and fix it.


As it is.........the IACE team teamed up with another organisation to make it happen.......my god!  Who would have thought that team work to get the mission done would ever get someone yelled at!

[PHall]

RM, how about you stop posting about how messed up IACE until you do a bit of reading. All your posts show right now is your total ignorance of the IACE program.

CAPR 52-16, Chapter 8 and www.capmembers.com/iace

I do realize that these are wannabe CAP regs, but they are the source documents.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

RM - Again we ask, why are you still a member of CIVIL Air Patrol?  Aren't you ashamed to be with us wannabes?

Sometimes I wonder that myself.

Almost every time something comes up that connects us with the military, or in this case an organisation that serves the military, he, for reasons best known only to himself, feels constrained to point out yet again of his encyclopaedic knowledge of AFI 10-2701 and that we are not military, we are the CIVIL Air Patrol, we are "wanna bes" if we wear the AF uniform, observe military  C&C's, acknowledge CAP officer rank, etc.

[Mitchell 1969]

The USO is not the USAF.......ergo your very argument falls in itself.

So.
There is nothing wrong with CAP and CAP member asking the USO for support.

Period....end of story.

The USO is going to do what it wants to do in regards to CAP no matter what you or I think.

Now if you think CAP is lacking in the proper running of IACE.....I am sure that they would just love for you to volunteer...fly down to JFK for the day and help out.

Well one has to remember that this is only ONE USO, at ONE SPECIFIC LOCATION, providing assistance to CAP for ONE SPECIFIC ACTIVITY.  It is not the entire USO organization.  The poster of this information even states this disclaimer.

Got to wonder how many CAP units nationwide actually are helping the USO as far as community service (even fund raising assistance)   Wonder if the LAX area units help out much there or even with some fund raising efforts on the USO's behalf :angel:

As far as IACE, IF the USO gentlemen also is a CAP member than I guess CAP has some limited representation while the cadets wait either for their official CAP escort (who really should be scheduled to arrive before any of the cadets arrive anyways) or have to board aircraft individually to return home after the activity.  Likely for all a very long day of travel and potential frustration.
RM
   

FWIW, The USO director was not a CAP member. There was neither need, nor mandate, requirement, regulation or anything else that demanded CAP bodyguards to stare at layover cadets for hours. Indeed, for many travelling cadets on any NCSA involving airline travel, such would not even be possible now, as most local CAP people would not be able to access terminal buildings due to TSA regulations. I suppose CAP could contract with "Con-Air" and have them all picked up, though.

Also FWIW - USOs also admit Merchant Mariners, ROTC cadets and DOD contractors. That's beside the point, but please feel free to hang around the entrance to the USO of your choice and let them know that you have decreed that USO is mistaken and therefore they must leave. 

Perhaps a quick lesson on airline scheduling would be helpful?

International departures don't happen all day every day from every airport. They are timed to give the best ARRIVAL advantage, not the most convenient DEPARTURE time. Meanwhile, domestic carriers use the "hub and spoke" system to get to international O&D airports. On top of that, we have time zones.

If an escort lives in Spokane, there is an excellent chance that s/he will leave GEG for LAX between 0600-1200 Pacific, layover in PDX or SEA, then arrive LAX between 1030 and 1600 or so for an international departure of 1830 to 2130, or later, depending on destination.

Meanwhile, a cadet leaves Pittsburgh at 0700 to 1200 Eastern, changes planes at, let's say ORD following a 2 hour layover (with, GASP! No senior member to watch him/her), arriving LAX between 1100 and 1600, Pacific.

So - they could arrive within minutes of each other, one gate away from each other. Or 7 terminals apart.  Or it could be within hours of each other. It comes down to scheduling, seat availability, on-time vs late departures, WX issues, MX issues... and nobody at CAP or anywhere else can control large chunks of that.

One year I had all the cadets at the gate to depart. No escort. Major WX delay on departure and more enroute. He simply was not going to make it unless some powerful juju came into play pretty quick. Here was the plan:

I had somebody waiting at his jetway to snatch and grab. But whether he made it or not, I was putting the cadets on the flight. I had somebody check - escort was going to arrive in host country a day later. I briefed NHQ, appointed a cadet OIC and hoped for the best. It was nobody's fault and nothing else could be done short of Marty McFly and Doc Brown dropping by and offering to get the escort yesterday. Wait, don't tell me - you wouldn't have done that?

The escorts missed connection - no problem, airline eats it. But canceling the cadets tickets after checking in and during boarding? No dice.

Turns out we got him there with 15 minutes to spare. I

Doesn't matter much anyway. I'm no longer at LAX, so I can't participate in the NHQ conspiracy to endanger children at airports. General Mike Teilmann at LAX USO just retired, so he won't be giving away any donuts to CAP cadets (I'm beginning to believe that they must be your personal donuts, the way you are guarding them and defending them from being defiled by USO invited guests that you have proclaimed to be undeserving). And, Pacific IACE seems to be going through SFO. (This years IACE travel uniform includes a green polo. If you can't make it there personally, perhaps you can call SFO USO and tell them "The people in green shirts are wannabees! I forbid them entry!")

[a2capt]

All I gotta say is.. for the unit PAO, RM sure does a bang up job.. on the organization from the outside.

...and must be having kittens and calves over the fact that the unit has fleece jackets that have a similar logo on them as the lightweight AF blue jacket that ma blue encourages it's Airmen to wear, except it says US AIR FORCE AUXILIARY. 'CIVIL' isn't to be seen in large letters anywhere. 

Whatever.

Amazing unit leadership hasn't caught Wind of this..

[abdsp51]

I guess I should dangle my CAC around my neck then.

[Cool Mace]

I could have sworn I read somewhere that travel to and from activities was the members responsibility, not CAP NHQ.

[AdAstra]

For IACE participants, NHQ furnishes an airline ticket to and from their home and the assembly point, either Washington, DC, (for those bound to Europe, Africa or the Middle East), or San Francisco (for those bound to the Pacific Rim). Those participants who live closer (150-200 miles?) are expected to drive to the assembly point at their own expense.

[RADIOMAN015]

All I gotta say is.. for the unit PAO, RM sure does a bang up job.. on the organization from the outside.

...and must be having kittens and calves over the fact that the unit has fleece jackets that have a similar logo on them as the lightweight AF blue jacket that ma blue encourages it's Airmen to wear, except it says US AIR FORCE AUXILIARY. 'CIVIL' isn't to be seen in large letters anywhere. 

Whatever.

Amazing unit leadership hasn't caught Wind of this..

As long as they stay out of the USO, that civilian jacket is fine for wear in accordance with latest interpretation of mumbo jumbo guidance from higher headquarters :angel:
RM

[Eclipse]

It would be very difficult for me to see someone from CAP deliberately violating AF regulations, especially on theft of services (benefits) and not report it.  I would likely go to AF authorities and not CAP.  I don't believe that this type of illegal activity occurs very much.  not stick my nose into everyone's business, even when that intrusion is neither requested nor welcome, and I may have no idea what I am talking about.

That's the way it is.

No charge on the correction...

The USO is a  private non-profit.  They can offer their services to anyone they want.  If you're going to report CAP members being offered USO access to the USAF, can you post it here before you go?  I'm sure a number of us would like to hear that conversation.

[NIN]

As long as they stay out of the USO, that civilian jacket is fine for wear in accordance with latest interpretation of mumbo jumbo wannabe guidance from higher headquarters :angel:
RM

Fixed that for ya, too. You're slippin'

[a2capt]

Send a news crew, film a funny .. for entertainment within the USO itself. ;-)