Wings that make members pay for fuel for corporate vehicles/planes

RiverAux · December 17, 2008, 03:11:18 PM

We hear mention every now and again of Wings that do not provide wing credit cards for use in CAP airplanes and vans and require that individual members pay for fuel for these corporate vehicles and then wait for reimbursement.

Which wings do this? Do you feel that this has a negative impact on your ability to recruit and retain members, especially pilots who would be facing massive credit card bills for mission flying in these situations.

Timbo · December 17, 2008, 03:24:41 PM

As long as they can cut me a check before my credit card due date......I have no problem. Other wings where it takes 4 to 6 weeks to get reimbursed......that is just disrespectful to their membership.

davedove · December 17, 2008, 03:53:46 PM

Maryland Wing has cards for the aircraft, but fuel for the vans is reimbursed. It can take a while to get the reimbursement, often over a month.

Timbo · December 17, 2008, 04:23:11 PM

Quote from: davedove on December 17, 2008, 03:53:46 PM
Maryland Wing has cards for the aircraft, but fuel for the vans is reimbursed. It can take a while to get the reimbursement, often over a month.

That is terrible. It should only take 12 business days at the most.

Stonewall · December 17, 2008, 04:32:13 PM

I haven't been too active in the past 2 years, but when I was in DC Wing, I've actually gotten reimbursement 4 and 5 months after the fact. Anything that wasn't an AF funded mission had to be reimbursed by the squadron, which meant it came from my pocket.

davidsinn · December 17, 2008, 05:09:57 PM

In INWG, an AF ELT mission takes almost 2 months to be reimbursed. That's why my wife and I don't deploy at the moment. I can't afford to be short for that long.

Cecil DP · December 17, 2008, 05:33:18 PM

The answer I've gotten from my former Wing was that sometimes they were waiting for that 1 or 2 people to send in their receipts before they could send the package in. Until we got a reimbursement officer who after 3 weeks would send a letter thanking that member for contributing the gas/fuel for his portion of the mission. forms can in quick after that.

EMT-83 · December 17, 2008, 05:34:47 PM

Connecticut has cards for the planes, but not the vans. Our Wing banker is outstanding; checks are in the mail in about a week.

jimmydeanno · December 17, 2008, 05:35:55 PM

No offense, but three weeks is too long for people to send in reciepts. There really isn't any reason that they can't be submitted the next day. Fill up the van before you drop it off at the squadron, send it electronically. Done. Even snail mail should take no more than three days.

After a week I think I'd be "thanking people for their contributions."

Oh, and our wing has CC in the planes and just issued CC to squadrons to use for van fuel, etc. It comes right out of the squadron account, then the wing just transfers some digits in quickbooks.

_ · December 17, 2008, 06:14:57 PM

Quote from: davedove on December 17, 2008, 03:53:46 PM
Maryland Wing has cards for the aircraft, but fuel for the vans is reimbursed. It can take a while to get the reimbursement, often over a month.

I've gotten reimbursements well over a month later. Since then, MD has finally adopted electronically sending in receipts so I don't know if it's improved.

I asked someone, don't remember who, why there were cards in the planes but not vans and the response was that they couldn't decide who to get van cards from. With planes you can get avcard and it'll work in most places but there isn't a similar thing in the ground world. I don't know if this is the true reason (I don't think it is). I'm a college student without a steady income of any significance. I can't upfront money to pay for a couple hundred dollars in gas for a SAREX even if I get reimbursed quickly. I've gotten to where I don't want to take teams on SAREXs because I can't afford it.

smj58501 · December 17, 2008, 07:01:34 PM

ND Wing has at least one Wing Card issued to each squadron, which can be used for gas in both the aircraft and the vans. These cards are used on reimburseable missions only. We have a seperate Wing Form which accompanies the receipts when submitted (snail mail, fax, or scanned/ emailed), which helps tie the expense back to each sortie/ day/ mission number and thus the correct funding stream to reimburse the wing.

The system works very well, and beats having to do a 108 every time. It is a win for our Director of Administration, and more importantly it is a win for our members.

arajca · December 17, 2008, 08:52:29 PM

CO has state issued fuel cards in each vehicle. The unit sends a check request with the receipts in each month for the previous month's fuel use. The wing fronts the money on the card until the unit sends in teh check request payable to the wing.

TXCAP · December 17, 2008, 09:12:12 PM

TX Wing has credit cards in the aircraft but for A missions only. B and C missions are on the members card but reimbursement is usually within a week of sending in paperwork and receipts which can be scanned and emailed.

I hear we are to get credit cards for the vans very soon.

jeders · December 17, 2008, 09:31:01 PM

Quote from: TXCAP on December 17, 2008, 09:12:12 PM
TX Wing has credit cards in the aircraft but for A missions only. B and C missions are on the members card but reimbursement is usually within a week of sending in paperwork and receipts which can be scanned and emailed.

I hear we are to get credit cards for the vans very soon.

At the Alpine Flying clinic 14 months ago at least some, if not all, of the vans already had them.

CFI_Ed · December 18, 2008, 01:43:02 AM

OK Wing - Avcards for the A/C; right now vans need a 109 and receipt sent in or scanned/emailed to wing.

As I'm one of the primary guys to approve the forms then sign the checks, we average a two or three weeks before the members get their check mailed off. Of course, they get held up if when we cross check the 104/109 and WMIRS and the numbers don't match. Then we have to contact the member and ask "what's up with this?".

As for CC's for the vans, if we can't get members to send in receipts and paperwork for their own credit cards in a timely manner (not withstanding if they get lost before they even get sent in), well once we solve that problem we'll issue credit cards to all the vans.

Timbo · December 18, 2008, 02:01:02 AM

Quote from: CFI_Ed on December 18, 2008, 01:43:02 AM
As for CC's for the vans, if we can't get members to send in receipts and paperwork for their own credit cards in a timely manner (not withstanding if they get lost before they even get sent in), well once we solve that problem we'll issue credit cards to all the vans.

You are kidding right?!?!?! If we had credit cards for vans we freaking wouldnt have any issues. Maybe the members don't send in the receipts in a timely manner is becasue they know Wing is going to make them wait anyway. If you have the ability to issue credit cards for your vans right now.....it is almost criminal NOT TO.

I honeslty want the Wing to pay my Credit Card interest related to the CAP charges I am still waiting on Reimbusement for. That is almost like STEALING indirectly from me by the Wing. So if I wait to pay my CAP charges I acrue interest, and I should not have to pay my CAP charges until I deposite the funds into my bank account from the Wing. We have been getting screwed on funding the organizational missions for decades, and many are getting tired of it.

Where is the Financial Chief on the National Staff that lurks on this board......maybe he can answer some of my questions.

bosshawk · December 18, 2008, 02:54:21 AM

In CAWG, there are no credit cards for corporate aircraft: period. A Wing CC twice removed made arrangements for the Wing to get them and then lost his job. The new CC simply passed the problem off to National and now, over a year later, we have no idea when and if we will get them.

There are no credit cards for vans, as far as I know.

Each Sq now has a credit card, but only for admin supplies and the like.

My CD program has two credit cards: one for use on our border mission, where we often spend $3-5 K per weekend for fuel and one for my use for admin supplies and the like.

Reimbursement for all missions generally runs six weeks to four months.

Does this adversely affect people taking missions? You bet it does and, to some degree, that is reflected in the reluctance of a lot of people to take missions.

Some of us have screamed to high heaven for a long time and we are generally ignored.

Timbo · December 18, 2008, 03:03:44 AM

^ I could easily see the SQD's admin only CC being used for fuel if the SQD had a vehicle assigned. They already are being responsible for making payments on paper and pen purchases, just add the third column....fuel and be done with it.

KyCAP · December 18, 2008, 03:13:59 AM

There are subtle semantics of "credit" card vs "bank" card vs. "fuel" card. In Ky Wing "~~Credit~~Debit" Cards are a NO NO per NHQ regs.

In all aircraft we have a Multi-serve "fuel" card for all FLYING. Member credit cards are a no no.

Van's do not have anything. Practically speaking it's easily reconcilable to match an expense for an aircraft to WHO flew it and spent the money. While a vehicle is a gaping hole from my perspective.

Duke Dillio · December 18, 2008, 03:21:29 AM

Quote from: bosshawk on December 18, 2008, 02:54:21 AM
There are no credit cards for vans, as far as I know.

Reimbursement for all missions generally runs six weeks to four months.

I ran a mission out of Oakland about a year ago or so. I didn't have a "serviceable" vehicle to use so I asked to use a vehicle from the hosting squadron for my ground team. Just coming from CO, was I surprised to find out that I had to pay for the fuel. I was even more surprised to not receive reimbursement for 6 months afterwards....