5.8 Quake hits LA Area - CAP and CAWG role in earthquakes

[MikeD]

Having just felt the 5.8 that hit the LA area, this question just popped into my mind.  Do we have a role?

**Edit**:  My bad, it was a 5.8, but initially reported as a 5.6 according to USGS. 

[PHall]

5.8 is not even worth getting out of bed for. [yahn]

No reported damage other then nerves and possibly some soiled BVD's.

www.cisn.org

Check out the Southern California Shake Map.

[PhoenixRisen]

USGS just downgraded it to a 5.4.


Boooooring.

[MikeD]

USGS just downgraded it to a 5.4.


Boooooring.

Hey, it's my first real quake since I moved out west, cut me a little slack.  That and it's still better then workingk.  :angel:

[alamrcn]

So.... no new ocean front property then? My investments in the Nevada coastline aren't paying off very fast 

[SarDragon]

I felt a little jiggle here that disturbed my nap. Went right back to sleep. It lightly rattled a couple of pictures on the walls. As has been said up the thread - boring. Let me know when we have another Loma Prieta size one. BTDT - that one scared me a bit.

[bosshawk]

Shaking or burning: California doesn't even interrupt it sushi eating and latte sipping.  My county now has over 27,000 acres burned in the Telegraph Fire.

As far as I know, CAWG hasn't been alerted for anything: it is now four days since the fire began and over 7 hours since the earthquake.  Ho Hum.

[MikeD]

We've also got the big earthquake drill Nov 12-17th this year, http://www.shakeout.org/ and CAWG should get involved in that as well somehow.  It'd be nice to see us get some kind of role defined in earthquake responses.

[PHall]

We've also got the big earthquake drill Nov 12-17th this year, http://www.shakeout.org/ and CAWG should get involved in that as well somehow.  It'd be nice to see us get some kind of role defined in earthquake responses.

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.  We might have a couple people up at the OES Ops Center in Sacramento, but that will probably be it.

The main thing we have done in past earthquakes is help the Red Cross feed people and help set up shelters.

We definitely won't be going through buildings looking for survivors. The police and fire departments simply won't allow it. We're not trained for that and have no business trying to do it.

Yeah, we'll take some pictures but that's about it.

[alamrcn]

The main thing we have done in past earthquakes is help the Red Cross feed people and help set up shelters.

That's an important job, though. Amazing how a jelly donut and a fresh blanket can change a person's life from "nothing" into "something". And wouldn't it be great if it is a 13-year-old in BDUs that does it?!

While door-to-door checks after earthquakes aren't in our abilities like after hurricanes and floods, it would be nice to be utilized more in a hands-on capacity. Certainly some situations require experts and specialists, but our Disaster Relief mission could be a whole lot more active than it is... Not that I'm bored with sand bagging! 

FEMA and the DNR are pretty good about using our aerial surveillance and transportation capacities during or following a natural disaster.

[MikeD]

FEMA and the DNR are pretty good about using our aerial surveillance and transportation capacities during or following a natural disaster.

That's more along the lines of what I'm thinking as an initial response.  We could also do something similar as a ground team mission, we aren't qualified to do things like bridge and building inspection for use, but we can at least say things like how cracked a road looks, or if structures are collapsed or appear about to fall over.

Also, a lesson (re)learned from this is that land-line and cell phone coverage was intermittent after the quake, even with no infrastructure damage, due to call volume, but text messages seemed a lot more reliable. 

[Larry Mangum]

After the Nesqually earthquake, the cell phone system in the Seattle metropolitan area was useless.  The wing brought up the HF and VHF nets and communication between the command post on McChord AFB and the units dipatched was completely by radio.

[wingnut55]

Cell phones did not work in LA for about 1/2 hour after the quake, text messaging worked, if CAWG had been called up we would have had a massive call up of the pilots, all the aircraft (26) would have been Airborne in 1 hour, Archer would be flying   (NOT)

CAWG has about 75 current mission pilots, 1,200 Seniors and only 75 pilots. We are dying on the vine, no active recruiting program.

But I am Tired, I flew at 2:30am on an ELT over a Navy base, verified it was on the base and our UDF crew had to wait to get on the base.

[JayT]

FEMA and the DNR are pretty good about using our aerial surveillance and transportation capacities during or following a natural disaster.

That's more along the lines of what I'm thinking as an initial response.  We could also do something similar as a ground team mission, we aren't qualified to do things like bridge and building inspection for use, but we can at least say things like how cracked a road looks, or if structures are collapsed or appear about to fall over.

Also, a lesson (re)learned from this is that land-line and cell phone coverage was intermittent after the quake, even with no infrastructure damage, due to call volume, but text messages seemed a lot more reliable. 

How much training do you have in damage assessment?

[jimmydeanno]

Also, a lesson (re)learned from this is that land-line and cell phone coverage was intermittent after the quake, even with no infrastructure damage, due to call volume, but text messages seemed a lot more reliable. 

The AT&T Wireless operations manager in our squadron (we recruited him for comm ) tells me that text messages have priority over actual phone calls.  In an emergency, if for some reason the tower isn't able to "send" the text messages will be stored until power is back.  Then all the texts are sent out before the phone calls are accepted.

Just something to think about I suppose.

[alamrcn]

How much training do you have in damage assessment?

While I don't remember hardly anything from it, I did take a [from the ground] damage assesment class at a CAP activity many years ago. It was pretty much a 1-2-3 rating system. We can certainly can receive new ICS training for situations like this, if our geographic area suggests it.

AT&T Wireless .... text messages have priority over actual phone calls ... Then all the texts are sent out before the phone calls are accepted.

This is a GSM (AT&T, Sprint) limitation. CDMA (Verizon, Alltel) can do this simultaneously because not all the same voice/data tower and network resources are used for both. I'm sorry that I can't expound upon this further, but I remember that from a class I took while employed by a wireless telecommunications company.

Text messages go first on a GSM network before a voice connection, because they requires a lot less equipment and time commitment from the network. The time it takes to transmit a text message is fractional to a voice call connection - we're talking hundredths of a second. The connection also doesn't need to be sustained, so you can send/receive a text message in even very low signal areas where your phone's connection with a network is intermittent at best.

A text messaging alert system at the least is a preamo concept for CAP search and rescue. You've probably heard on the news how college campuses have instituted this type of feature for contacting students and parents in routine and emergency situations.

-Ace



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Off the thread topic, here are some tips to better receive calls & text messages...

1. The "bars" on your phone messure its RECEIVE ability only. You still have to TRANSMIT back to the network using up to 6/10 of a watt... sometimes for many miles. What looks like a full signal is not necessarily a good connection, and vice versa. Every situation is different too, so don't depend on that little meter.

2. Your phone is ALWAYS connected to the network, it "checks in" on a schedule determined by your providers network software in the phone. For example, your phone might say, "I'm over hear" only every five minutes. This period of time between connections is called camping. Power-cycle the phone or making a call forces a check-in - and might possibly allow a text message to be delivered sooner.

3. Power cycling the phone as you travel maintains a better connection with the network you're using. This is especially moving between your home service provider and a roaming provider. Both phones and networks "remember" each other - I call this a ghost trail. Refreshing that memory makes for a more efficient connection in your current location and situation.

4. Power the phone off, removing and replacing the battery, then powering the phone back on REBOOTS the phones firmware (OS) and network software. If there was a hiccup in the phones various operations, this will likely clear it out - just like on your computer. Phones that are never shut off and on 24/7 straight are the phones that experience the most problems.

[MikeD]

While I don't remember hardly anything from it, I did take a [from the ground] damage assesment class at a CAP activity many years ago. It was pretty much a 1-2-3 rating system. We can certainly can receive new ICS training for situations like this, if our geographic area suggests it.

I'm thinking of something similar.  Unless we have ground teams of Professional Engineers (the official license not just an engineering degree), we can't pronounce a structure as safe, but what we can do is something like a scale of estimated damage:
1) Total Collapse
2) Partial Collapse
3) Looks Bad, ie. the building hasn't collapsed yet but it looks like it's about to fall over, it's wobbleing, signs of major damage, etc.
4) Some Visible Damage
5) No Visible Damage

That being said, I personally do not have any background in damage assessment, and only a basic engineering background in structures (my area's computer/electrical).

[alamrcn]

Yup, that sounds logical to me. Training would be a short and simple Death-by-Power Point class with photo examples, possibly even in a refresher briefing just before the mission.

No rocket science here, and it's a very safe job as we need not go in or real close to the structure being observed.

I want to say the 1-2-3 rating was...
1 - structure undamaged or minor cosmetic damage
2 - unsafe or uninhabitable (obvious wall/roof damage)
3 - destroyed, something has collapsed or given way

This is of course designed to by a "preliminary" rating system, to help other agencies that might be stretched thin know where to better concentrate their efforts. I wish I could remember the agency that gave the class, but it was geared toward support after a tornado if I remember correctly. This was maybe 15 or more years ago, well before we joined the ICS world.

This need not be a program developed on a national scale, but with the local police-fire-rescue groups that know they can rely on and trust in the Civil Air Patrol. If we train with these folks often, jobs like this just kind of fall in out laps.

Isn't it nice when you work with another agency and are able to just impress the he|| out of them with our professionalism and dedication?

-Ace