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Flag Salute question

Started by ♠SARKID♠, December 04, 2007, 02:27:03 AM

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♠SARKID♠

Quick answer for a quick question desired.

Do you salute the flag, in uniform, at night, if the flag is not lit?  Technically it shouldn't be up in the first place, but do you salute it if it is?

Question was posed by a VFW senior member, and It's not covered in the D&C manual.

jeders

When in doubt, whip it out. I would salute it, even if it's not lit it's still the flag of my country.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

JayT

If the flagging is being raised, or lowered, yes.

You never salute a flag that's just on the pole.
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

stillamarine

Quote from: JThemann on December 04, 2007, 02:54:42 AM
If the flagging is being raised, or lowered, yes.

You never salute a flag that's just on the pole.

Negative Ghostrider. You always salute the flag. Period. If you are walking and there is a flag pole in your line of walk, you salute 6 paces before you reach the flagpole and hold the salute til you are 6 paces past the flag pole.
Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com

jeders

Quote from: stillamarine on December 04, 2007, 03:09:04 AM
Quote from: JThemann on December 04, 2007, 02:54:42 AM
If the flagging is being raised, or lowered, yes.

You never salute a flag that's just on the pole.

Negative Ghostrider. You always salute the flag. Period. If you are walking and there is a flag pole in your line of walk, you salute 6 paces before you reach the flagpole and hold the salute til you are 6 paces past the flag pole.

You got it while I was still looking for the actual cite.

Quote from: AFMAN 36-22037.36.2. Military personnel passing an uncased US flag salute approximately six paces before reaching
the flag and hold the salute until they have passed approximately six paces beyond it.

Since we use this AFMAN for our own, we can assume that it applies to us, even though we're not military personnel.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Tim Medeiros

From AFMAN 36-2203 3 Jun 1996 incorporating Change 1 24 Sept 2007

Quote7.36. Courtesies to the US Flag:
7.36.1. Flags flown from stationary flagstaffs on bases are saluted only at reveille, retreat, and special
occasions. Small flags and flags on halfstaff are not saluted. Cased and folded flags are not saluted.
TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
Chair, National IT Functional User Group
1577/2811

Gunner C

Quote from: jeders on December 04, 2007, 03:17:51 AM
Quote from: stillamarine on December 04, 2007, 03:09:04 AM
Quote from: JThemann on December 04, 2007, 02:54:42 AM
If the flagging is being raised, or lowered, yes.

You never salute a flag that's just on the pole.

Negative Ghostrider. You always salute the flag. Period. If you are walking and there is a flag pole in your line of walk, you salute 6 paces before you reach the flagpole and hold the salute til you are 6 paces past the flag pole.

You got it while I was still looking for the actual cite.

Quote from: AFMAN 36-22037.36.2. Military personnel passing an uncased US flag salute approximately six paces before reaching
the flag and hold the salute until they have passed approximately six paces beyond it.

Since we use this AFMAN for our own, we can assume that it applies to us, even though we're not military personnel.

Uncased colors refers to flags carried by a color guard, not on a flag pole.  When the colors are being carried past, one salutes approximately six paces before they arrive in front and drop the salute when it is six paces past you.

When passing in review, when you pass the color guard, the unit executes an "eyes right" and the commander of the unit salutes until the unit is six paces past it.   If you pass the colors and they're cased (have the canvass sleeves over the colors) you don't salute.  You never salute a flag on a flag pole unless it is being raised or lowered.

Gunner

mikeylikey

Quote from: timmed1577 on December 04, 2007, 03:31:12 AM
From AFMAN 36-2203 3 Jun 1996 incorporating Change 1 24 Sept 2007

Quote7.36. Courtesies to the US Flag:
7.36.1. Flags flown from stationary flagstaffs on bases are saluted only at reveille, retreat, and special
occasions. Small flags and flags on halfstaff are not saluted. Cased and folded flags are not saluted.

Thats only on AF Installations.
What's up monkeys?

♠SARKID♠

I think you've all missed the question.  I'm working under the basis of "salute the flag if its on the pole" and I'm not going to be swayed from that.  What I want to know is do you salute if it isn't lit, as in a light shining on the flag at night.

mikeylikey

Ummm......if you can see it at night, I would guess you salute.  To be an A-Hole....If you really can see it at night, there is some amount of light being cast toward that flag.  If you feel it is not enough light, ask for the flag to be taken down each evening.  Is it hanging off the VFW building or something?  Cause those guys are pretty good at following the flag codes. 

What's up monkeys?

Eclipse

Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on December 04, 2007, 03:46:09 AM
I think you've all missed the question.  I'm working under the basis of "salute the flag if its on the pole" and I'm not going to be swayed from that.  What I want to know is do you salute if it isn't lit, as in a light shining on the flag at night.

That is incorrect, as cited above, lit or otherwise, and if you actually operate in that manner, you are likely to generate unnecessary arguments over something which you know you are doing despite the regs and customs.

The only place you salute stationary flags as a matter of course is on Naval installations when entering or leaving an area designated a quarterdeck.

"That Others May Zoom"

Gunner C

Quote from: Eclipse on December 04, 2007, 03:53:08 AM
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on December 04, 2007, 03:46:09 AM
I think you've all missed the question.  I'm working under the basis of "salute the flag if its on the pole" and I'm not going to be swayed from that.  What I want to know is do you salute if it isn't lit, as in a light shining on the flag at night.

That is incorrect, as cited above, lit or otherwise, and if you actually operate in that manner, you are likely to generate unnecessary arguments over something which you know you are doing despite the regs and customs.

The only place you salute stationary flags as a matter of course is on Naval installations when entering or leaving an area designated a quarterdeck.

Bullseye!

JayT

Quote from: stillamarine on December 04, 2007, 03:09:04 AM
Quote from: JThemann on December 04, 2007, 02:54:42 AM
If the flagging is being raised, or lowered, yes.

You never salute a flag that's just on the pole.

Negative Ghostrider. You always salute the flag. Period. If you are walking and there is a flag pole in your line of walk, you salute 6 paces before you reach the flagpole and hold the salute til you are 6 paces past the flag pole.

Try again.
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

stillamarine

Quote from: JThemann on December 04, 2007, 04:31:35 AM
Quote from: stillamarine on December 04, 2007, 03:09:04 AM
Quote from: JThemann on December 04, 2007, 02:54:42 AM
If the flagging is being raised, or lowered, yes.

You never salute a flag that's just on the pole.

Negative Ghostrider. You always salute the flag. Period. If you are walking and there is a flag pole in your line of walk, you salute 6 paces before you reach the flagpole and hold the salute til you are 6 paces past the flag pole.

Try again.

Eh, I stick by my answer. Just another example of where I am learning that AF regs are much different than the Marine Corps...reckon the AF is getting lazy lol
Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com

lordmonar

Quote from: mikeylikey on December 04, 2007, 03:38:48 AM
Quote from: timmed1577 on December 04, 2007, 03:31:12 AM
From AFMAN 36-2203 3 Jun 1996 incorporating Change 1 24 Sept 2007

Quote7.36. Courtesies to the US Flag:
7.36.1. Flags flown from stationary flagstaffs on bases are saluted only at reveille, retreat, and special
occasions. Small flags and flags on halfstaff are not saluted. Cased and folded flags are not saluted.

Thats only on AF Installations.
Or Air Force personnel and their official auxiliary
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

lordmonar

Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on December 04, 2007, 03:46:09 AM
I think you've all missed the question.  I'm working under the basis of "salute the flag if its on the pole" and I'm not going to be swayed from that.  What I want to know is do you salute if it isn't lit, as in a light shining on the flag at night.

And what else is going on?

Are you just walking by?  Are they playing Reveille, To The Colors, or the National Anthem?  Is the color guard raising or lowering the flag?

Bottom line....if you would salute the flag in day light you would also salute the flag in the pitch black of night as well.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

CadetProgramGuy

Lets look at it  from this perspective, a flag should not be flown at night with out a light in it.

capchiro

It is my understanding that when the regs mention the Colors and saluting such, they are referring to the American flag with gold braid around the edge.  As far as I can tell the only time you salute a flag on a pole is if it is being rasied or lowered or is in fact "The Colors" and contains the gold braid aforementioned.  To walk by a flag flying in the breeze and saluting same makes one look like a dumkopf, kind like saluting a fire hydrant.. 
Lt. Col. Harry E. Siegrist III, CAP
Commander
Sweetwater Comp. Sqdn.
GA154

Gunner C

Show me where it says "anytime you see an American flag, salute it if you are within 6 paces."  It doesn't exist.  I'll bet 32 years in uniform as a senior NCO and officer on it.

Major Lord

Do we salute flag patches on peoples shoulders? If they are facing the wrong way do we salute with the left hand? If we are looking at a backwards flag in the mirror, do we salute it with our right hand? What if its being worn by a vampire and we can't see them in the mirror?

Please take their word for it. You don't salute  the National Colors on the staff when posted. (The protocol for ships of war is a different matter, but the Navy does many thing strangely....) If someone is flying the colors without  lights at night, they have violated an unenforceable section of the U.S. Code. Let it go. I am pretty sure that Francis Scott Key did not turn have flood lights, and the rockets' red glare was good enough for him.

My secret and shameful protocol questions is this: If you are standing by a parade, and there is a U.S. Flag every ten feet, do you hold the salute for three hours or just salute the head of the Parade and come to attention while the rest pass? This is a result of using the National colors for a mere decoration. I hate that. Car dealers and such flying 300 U.S. flags with their own "standard" above them really pisses me off! My local McDonalds was flying the Mickey D flag ABOVE the American flag with the American Flag upside down, on one of those days when La Raza was marching the Mexican Colors up the street in support of illegal immigration. This is the moral equivalent to burning a cross on a black families lawn. Some problems just need a flame thrower to solve....

Major Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."