Unqualified Staff

[♠SARKID♠]

Recently at an open house my squadron held, I was visited by a senior member from another nearby squadron.  I was working the ES table, and he started to brag that he was just made the squadron ES officer.  After talking for a little while I became aware that he wasn't exactly qualified for that particular position.  The only ES qual he had was GES!  While talking about gear, he said that he couldnt find a decent list of things that should be in ES gear (HE HAD NEVER EVEN HEARD OF THE GT HANDBOOK!!!)  The squadron he came from is a very well trained squadron and has some the wing's ES big-wigs.  Why do you think they would have appointed a greenhorn to the ES position when they had plenty of more qualified members?  Should they be allowed to do that, or should regulations be put in place to prevent it?

(Let the opinions flow!)

[Stonewall]

ES Officer isn't an ES "qualification", it's more of an administrative position in the squadron.  Although most people would want an ESO with experience in ES, technically, if they're proficient administratively, then they may fit the bill.

Just because someone is has 2000 hours in the air, 200 ground SAR sorties under their belt, or is playing "who has the most high speed gear wins", doesn't mean they're qualified or even the best choice for ESO.

[♠SARKID♠]

ES Officer isn't an ES "qualification", it's more of an administrative position in the squadron.

I never said it was a qualification, I said he wasnt qualified as in not quite fit to hold that particular position

And I can see what you're saying administrationally.  But I know the people in that squadron very very well and know that they are all greatly capable of handling the position, definitely more so than the new guy.

[Stonewall]

But I know the people in that squadron very very well and know that they are all greatly capable of handling the position, definitely more so than the new guy.

Just because someone is qualified doesn't mean they want the job.

[JC004]

ES Officer isn't an ES "qualification", it's more of an administrative position in the squadron.

I never said it was a qualification, I said he wasnt qualified as in not quite fit to hold that particular position

And I can see what you're saying administrationally.  But I know the people in that squadron very very well and know that they are all greatly capable of handling the position, definitely more so than the new guy.

That's the commander's decision.  Sometimes, they make the wrong decision, but the flexibility needs to be there, or we lock ourselves into rules that aren't flexible enough for a large and diverse organization.  Sometimes you have limited staff, or any number of other situations could exist.

Just because someone is qualified doesn't mean they want the job.

And as usual, Stonewall makes a good point.

[RogueLeader]

Not to mention that one of the best ways to learn is to teach.  I remember most of the material in classes I taught, than in some classes I listened.  My estimation is that he will learn very quick, or he will be replaced.  Also note, that just because he is new at ES, that doesn't mean that he doesn't have a mentor to help him out.  When I started PDO, I had no real clue about what the PDO did. I now know quite a bit about it, and I doubt I would have learned it if I didn't have the need.

[JC004]

Not to mention that one of the best ways to learn is to teach.  I remember most of the material in classes I taught, than in some classes I listened.  My estimation is that he will learn very quick, or he will be replaced.  Also note, that just because he is new at ES, that doesn't mean that he doesn't have a mentor to help him out.  When I started PDO, I had no real clue about what the PDO did. I now know quite a bit about it, and I doubt I would have learned it if I didn't have the need.

WIWAC, we had a couple of cadet-run SAREXs at the Group level with senior mentors (who obviously controlled the aircraft and stuff).  I and another cadet shared the duties (alternating) of Cadet IC.  It was my first ES exercise above the unit level and I knew basically nothing about ICS and missions (remember this was also the days of no SQTRs and we had 101T's that were just cards).  I learned REAL quick when the senior IC threw a scenario at me..."missing person" - and told me I was in charge with no help but from the other cadet staff.  It was one of the best learning experiences I had as a cadet and I applied many of the principles to training I conducted in the coming years. 

[RogueLeader]

How'd it go?  I know you learned a lot, but did it flop, great, in between?

[JC004]

How'd it go?  I know you learned a lot, but did it flop, great, in between?

Pretty well.  The search subject is still friends with me, so we couldn't have done too badly.  I was sweating bullets, though.  The IC (now the incoming DEWG CC) knows how to teach - when to be hands-off, and when to tutor you.  It motivated me to learn a lot in ES too.

[Major Carrales]

Recently at an open house my squadron held, I was visited by a senior member from another nearby squadron.  I was working the ES table, and he started to brag that he was just made the squadron ES officer.  After talking for a little while I became aware that he wasn't exactly qualified for that particular position.  The only ES qual he had was GES!  While talking about gear, he said that he couldnt find a decent list of things that should be in ES gear (HE HAD NEVER EVEN HEARD OF THE GT HANDBOOK!!!)  The squadron he came from is a very well trained squadron and has some the wing's ES big-wigs.  Why do you think they would have appointed a greenhorn to the ES position when they had plenty of more qualified members?  Should they be allowed to do that, or should regulations be put in place to prevent it?

(Let the opinions flow!)

In a growing squadron, like ours has been, people of minor qualifications serve in the position and are mentored (ideally) by a GRUP LEVEL/SISTER SQUADRON LEVEL office as they "grow" into the position.

In larger, more established units, where qualified CAP Officers exist, the situation is a bit different.  A mentor should serve in the role and train their assistant to eventually replace them.

[Skyray]

As a former commander in the CAP, the Coast Guard Auxiliary, and the Real Military, let me tell you what went through my mind when I appointed staff.  I was not nearly so concerned with whether they knew the job as with whether they could learn the job and were motivated to do so.  I don't think I was ever assigned a job in the military that I already knew how to do, with the possible exception of airplane driver.  Same thing in the CAP, I was brought in at an advanced level, and I busted my hump to bring my CAP training level in line with my rank (grade).  I managed to do so within the first year of my membership.  I never had to deal with a slacker in the military, but in a volunteer organization it is slightly different.  For instance, in the military I never inherited a Group Commander's do nothing son.  You should have seen the repercussions when I canned him.  That is the subject of another thread.  Most of the CAP jobs are easy enough that learning them is not over anyone's head, although there are exceptions.  The big discriminator is motivation, with the second one being mentoring or training.  Sounds like your ES officer needed a mentor.

[TankerT]

I never said it was a qualification, I said he wasnt qualified as in not quite fit to hold that particular position

Lets revisit your statement that the person was not exactly qualified to hold the position...

So, you looked at the person's ES qualifications?  Great. 

Thing to remember, is that ES Qualifications have absolutely nothing to do with being qualified to be the unit's ES Officer.  You are confusing the qualification to work at an ES Mission with the qualifications to hold a duty position in a unit.

ES Qualifications are managed by CAPR 60-3.  Qualifications for duty assignments are managed by CAPR 35-1.  Neither regulation has much of anything to do with the other.

To be qualified to be his unit's ES Officer, the SM must:

-Have completed Level I (Orientation, CPPT, OPSEC).
-Be enrolled in the ES Specialty track, if ES Officer is his primary duty at the unit.

So, if the SM has completed Level I, he is "exactly" qualified to be the unit's ES Officer.

Also it is important to remember that qualifications do not mean the person is competent.  And, being qualified or a "big wig" also doesn't mean the person is willing to do the job, or reliable.  The Squadron ES Officer is a job that requires a LOT of administrative work.  In some units, the ES Officer is a program administrator, and has nothing to do with ES training.

Some of the best people CAP has are those that are green, but are motivated, and willing to do the job, and do it right.  Some "old salts" don't want to deal with the "leg work" associated with squadron assignments.  Especially with the paperwork trail associated with the SUI program.

[brasda91]

Emergency Services (ES) Officer Manages and directs emergency services activities.

They shall:
Develop agreements with agencies responsible for search, domestic emergencies, and civil defense.

Develop and maintain an adequate emergency service force.

Develop training programs to ensure that highly qualified ES personnel are available for search and rescue, and disaster relief missions.

Develop plans and standard operating procedures to support the wing's emergency services program.

Maintain records to determine the status of resources (personnel, vehicles aircraft, radios and other emergency equipment) available for ES missions.

Develop and maintain a rapid alerting system for assembling necessary resources in a timely manner.

The emergency services officer should be familiar with CAPP 213, CAPR 50-15, CAPR 55-1, CAPR 60-1 and CAPP 2.

Emergency Services Training Officer

Assists the ES Officer in managing and directing ES training activities

They shall:
Document ES training accomplished and qualifications earned.

Coordinate with the SAR and DR officers to ensure that training programs are adequate.

Coordinate with external agencies for other ES training.

Prepare and process CAPFs 101 for new or requalifying personnel.

The ES training officer should be familiar with CAPP 213, CAPR 50-15, CAPR 55-1, CAPR 60-1, CAPP 2 and applicable FEMA publications.

[♠SARKID♠]

Okay, now that everyone has given their opinion, I feel thoroughly pwnd, burned, and all around sorry that I brought up the subject in the first place.   

I see the light, and agree with all   

[MIKE]

Open mouth insert foot. 

[♠SARKID♠]

Open mouth insert foot. 

Yeah pretty much

[MIKE]

But you have probably learned a valuable lesson from this exchange... and that is what is important.

[♠SARKID♠]

Though humiliated and defeated, I must succumb and admit that you speak only the truth.

[TankerT]

Though humiliated and defeated, I must succumb and admit that you speak only the truth.

Now now, don't feel humiliated.  It's a learning curve.  You had a good concern, which was for the quality of a unit's ES training program.  Nothing wrong with that.

And, you're probably not overly familiar with R 35-1... heck... most SMs are not even familiar with it.  So, now you're one up on them!

Now, with your most awesome ES skills (as Timmerman has some good folks there... really good...) and something most cadets have... knowledge of how personnel assignments work... and where to look that type of stuff up... you're a more knowledgeable and valuable member.  That's how we grow and improve.  (You think some of us senior members know this stuff because we were born with the knowledge?  No, we goofed up, and someone smacked us upside the head when we were cadets or newly minted lieutenants.  ... and in my case... that's 20 years of learning stuff.  In fact, I learned three new things today that were CAP related...)

Chin up.  You handled yourself pretty well on this topic.  And, your heart was in the right place.

[♠SARKID♠]

Thanks Tanker, I appreciate that 
Also thanks for the compliment on Timmerman.  We have good teams because we have people like Krueger and Trossen training us.