Blue BDU's

[Blanding]

Once again...an organization that has no consistent message to all the PAYING members who ought to be treated with a little respect with some consistent messaging.."

The organization's message has been consistent.

What you're taking issue with are unqualified opinions and hearsay from random internet strangers.

[THRAWN]

Once again...an organization that has no consistent message to all the PAYING members who ought to be treated with a little respect with some consistent messaging.."

The organization's message has been consistent.

What you're taking issue with are unqualified opinions and hearsay from random internet strangers.

You're going to find that there are some contributors that you'll read, laugh, and scroll on. Others you just scroll by. Heliodoc is the latter. A decade of sour grapes. Welcome aboard.

[heliodoc]

Thats ok, Thrawn. Any body can scroll right on past me..but a decades worth of uniform discussion could be considered in the same way..sour grapes....I came back after a hiatus to check it out and noticed that the numbers of CapTalk folk that were here 10 yrs ago ...have dropped off quite considerably. Why is that? Apparently, they found other things to do....or maybe like to read occasional commentary from the experts in CAP

[Okayish Aviator]

...and this is why by and large I've stopped coming here.

[UWONGO2]

That directly opposes what I heard from someone who was at the Command Council.

Me as well. MGen Smith elected to punt the uniform issue throughout his entire term. MGen Phelka brought up uniforms to ask what the general interest was in moving to OCPs. There was a discussion about the expense of buying up everything Vanguard has in stock (required by contract) and the expense of the new uniform to members.

Nothing was decided, no processes were started, and definitely nothing submitted to CAP-USAF for routing to SECAF. Just a preliminary discussion on the topic.

I also know that the NUC has in the past discussed the lack of cadet-sized OCP uniforms as being an issue. A few ideas were discussed (moving everyone back to BDUs, moving everyone to BBDUs, staying with VG's ABU supplier), but I don't believe any recommendations were made to MG Smith at the time (probably doesn't matter now anywhere since there's a new boss).

[Shuman 14]

There was a discussion about the expense of buying up everything Vanguard has in stock (required by contract)

Well that's simple, you authorize OCPs but you continue to authorize ABUs, if there is no "wear-out date" its still an authorized uniform, CAP doesn't have to buy anything.

The fact that no members are buying Vanguard's crappy product, is not CAP's fault. ;-)

[Okayish Aviator]

Well that's simple, you authorize OCPs but you continue to authorize ABUs, if there is no "wear-out date" its still an authorized uniform, CAP doesn't have to buy anything.

The fact that no members are buying Vanguard's crappy product, is not CAP's fault. ;-)

I think it'd be hard enough to source them soon with only one manufacturer in the US even producing anything in the pattern now, and that's only for us and in the required quantities.

Ideally, we'd have a wear out date far enough out that the effective supply CAP would have to buy out would be almost nothing in comparison to at the moment. That's absolutely a consideration national will make when determining how long to make the phase out. That said, there was a plentiful supply of commercial suppliers for woodland still making stock, just not at the price point and availability we were needing (plus the whole not a current AF uniform thing). This time around everyone's just dropping the ABU because it wasn't that popular commercially, and was only used by one branch for what...15 years?

It would all depend on how fast seniors and cadets who wear the AF style uniform wish to transition. I think the perception was that everyone would rush to the "new hotness" that was ABU's, but it would remain to be seen if the same would happen with the ABU/OCP transition.

I'm firmly in the category of moving to the newer uniform as soon as practical, but I know that's not always doable for other members.

[UWONGO2]

There was a discussion about the expense of buying up everything Vanguard has in stock (required by contract)

Well that's simple, you authorize OCPs but you continue to authorize ABUs, if there is no "wear-out date" its still an authorized uniform, CAP doesn't have to buy anything.

The fact that no members are buying Vanguard's crappy product, is not CAP's fault. ;-)

Well.... I certainly appreciate your out-of-the-box problem solving, but we probably don't want to ruin the relationship with Vanguard. I'm not aware of any other companies willing to agree to our contractual requirements to be our uniform vendor.

[Shuman 14]

Well.... I certainly appreciate your out-of-the-box problem solving, but we probably don't want to ruin the relationship with Vanguard. I'm not aware of any other companies willing to agree to our contractual requirements to be our uniform vendor.

That prompts a better question... when does our contract with Vanguard end and when can we open up the new contract for bidding?

I think there will be plenty of companies willing to take out a bid for a National CAP contract to supply our Insignia and uniforms.

[Capt Thompson]

Well.... I certainly appreciate your out-of-the-box problem solving, but we probably don't want to ruin the relationship with Vanguard. I'm not aware of any other companies willing to agree to our contractual requirements to be our uniform vendor.

That prompts a better question... when does our contract with Vanguard end and when can we open up the new contract for bidding?

I think there will be plenty of companies willing to take out a bid for a National CAP contract to supply our Insignia and uniforms.

First, per our contract with VG, if we part ways we have to buy out all existing inventory from them, so depending on how much of a stockpile they have, it might not be financially feasible. Second, do we want to go through the growing pains we had with VG all over again? They are churning out decent insignias now for the most part, after years of issues. Taking the entire inventory over to say Ira Green or another manufacturer might mean years of mismatched insignia, off colors and crooked patches before they finally get it right, and it probably wouldn't get the general membership any better pricing or service.

[Shuman 14]

First, per our contract with VG, if we part ways we have to buy out all existing inventory from them, so depending on how much of a stockpile they have, it might not be financially feasible. Second, do we want to go through the growing pains we had with VG all over again? They are churning out decent insignias now for the most part, after years of issues. Taking the entire inventory over to say Ira Green or another manufacturer might mean years of mismatched insignia, off colors and crooked patches before they finally get it right, and it probably wouldn't get the general membership any better pricing or service.

Do you have a copy of the contract? If so, I'd really like to read it and I know some CAP Legal Officers I know would like to review it too.

Generally speaking, most business contracts don't have a "forever" clause... short of chattel slavery and selling your soul to Lucifer.

Every business contract I've seen had an end date, with an option to renew at agreed to rates for the continuation.

IF CAP signed a "forever" clause... the Legal Officer that signed off on it needs to be disbarred.

Just because Vanguard is the Earl Scheib of the insignia world doesn't mean every other insignia manufacturer is going to have the same issues they did.

I suspect CAP went with the lowest bidder and we got what we paid for.

 

[Ned]

Actually, the last time we went through the bidding process, essentially nobody other than VG was in a position to be seriously considered.  Apparently, we are not a very large market, and not particularly profitable.

And although it has been a few years, I have seen the contract (actually a license.)

As you correctly note, it is for a period of several years. Near the end of the term, NHQ follows standard business procedures and invites companies to bid.  Just like Scouting, MLB, and anyone else with uniforms and insignia.

As a final note, no one is required to source their uniforms from VG.  I generally don't, but some members have fewer options than I do.  I do buy my insignia there, since they are our sole licensed vendor.

Peace.  Soon OCPs will be here and we will have something else to argue about.  Because to judge by the forums here, what we wear is far more important than what we do for our country.


Ned Lee
Former Vice Chair, CAP Board of Governors

[SarDragon]

And thus ends another chapter in the continuing saga of CAP uniforms.

Click.