Dutch Four Day Marches and Medal

[THRAWN]

Requirements:
1000 m sprint (To be completed with helmet and rifle)
5000 m run
Hand grenade throwing
Rope climbing
Cat crawling
Obstacle Course
Completion of these requirements qualifies a candidate for the plain bronze badge.

Nah. You know why.

Rubber ducks can be borrowed from hundreds of US Military units... no Cadet touches an M-16/A1/A2/M4.
I'm not 100% here but I suspect they are already using dummy grenades... no Cadet touches an explosive device.
But I'm sure the answer will still be "NO".

FYI, numerous Military bases and College ROTC programs coordinate with the various German Military Liaison Missions to  host German Military Proficiency Badge testing events, it might be easier to coordinate with the closest AFROTC program to your respective CAP unit and see if you can marry-up with them when they conduct the event.

A van ride to a semi-local college campus is a far easier do than travelling to the Netherlands.

Still be cool to send an official CAP team to Holland every year to take part in the event, just saying.

Zounds. It has nothing to do with touching anything, and you should know that. It has a lot to do with the differences between CAP and your oft referenced ROTC programs. Compare the two and it will jump right out at you.

[Shuman 14]

Zounds. It has nothing to do with touching anything, and you should know that. It has a lot to do with the differences between CAP and your oft referenced ROTC programs. Compare the two and it will jump right out at you.

Other than helping teach Cadets Drill and Ceremony, I actually try to stay away from them, I joined CAP to do things I couldn't do in the military, like fly, so you lost me there.

Please explain because I truly don't understand your point.

[TheSkyHornet]

the differences between CAP and your oft referenced ROTC programs. Compare the two and it will jump right out at you.

I disagree. The CAP Cadet Program is much like an ROTC...a JROTC for that matter. What we don't have is a prescribed curriculum that must be followed, but we have a general package of items to capture. Where we tend to really shine for recruiting is the extracurricular opportunities (also a detriment if those individuals don't get to experience them). We tend to have a much wider range of exploration and training opportunities available for almost every niche.

But CAP, much like the way of many JROTCs, is starting to shift to a greater technology focus and away from the "gung-ho" experiences like Ranger Challenge competitions, etc.

The greatest difference that we tend to have is that we don't fall on an academic calendar; thus, progression is at one's preferred rate rather than on a timeline. This probably creates one of the biggest difficulties in every squadron: people are moving around constantly at their own pace...some too slow, some relatively fast...and it's hard to plan for an adequate staff corps or rotate people in a manner of "up or out" practices. A lot of cadets become stagnant in CAP, and we spend a lot of energy trying to figure out why, but we don't have a mechanism to "force" them to progress or leave on a universal time table.

[THRAWN]

Zounds. It has nothing to do with touching anything, and you should know that. It has a lot to do with the differences between CAP and your oft referenced ROTC programs. Compare the two and it will jump right out at you.

Other than helping teach Cadets Drill and Ceremony, I actually try to stay away from them, I joined CAP to do things I couldn't do in the military, like fly, so you lost me there.

Please explain because I truly don't understand your point.

Zounds.

The Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) is a group of college- and university-based officer training programs for training commissioned officers of the United States Armed Forces.

The Civil Air Patrol and the United States Air Force maintain a civilian-military
relationship which is based upon the Civil Air Patrol's status as the USAF Auxiliary. As such, CAP's services to the nation and the USAF are: (1) voluntary, (2) benevolent, and (3) noncombatant.

Toting battle rattle around and getting a cool badge doesn't fit the charter.

What's next?

[THRAWN]

the differences between CAP and your oft referenced ROTC programs. Compare the two and it will jump right out at you.

I disagree. The CAP Cadet Program is much like an ROTC...a JROTC for that matter. What we don't have is a prescribed curriculum that must be followed, but we have a general package of items to capture. Where we tend to really shine for recruiting is the extracurricular opportunities (also a detriment if those individuals don't get to experience them). We tend to have a much wider range of exploration and training opportunities available for almost every niche.

But CAP, much like the way of many JROTCs, is starting to shift to a greater technology focus and away from the "gung-ho" experiences like Ranger Challenge competitions, etc.

The greatest difference that we tend to have is that we don't fall on an academic calendar; thus, progression is at one's preferred rate rather than on a timeline. This probably creates one of the biggest difficulties in every squadron: people are moving around constantly at their own pace...some too slow, some relatively fast...and it's hard to plan for an adequate staff corps or rotate people in a manner of "up or out" practices. A lot of cadets become stagnant in CAP, and we spend a lot of energy trying to figure out why, but we don't have a mechanism to "force" them to progress or leave on a universal time table.

See response to Shuman below.

[Shuman 14]

The Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) is a group of college- and university-based officer training programs for training commissioned officers of the United States Armed Forces.

The Civil Air Patrol and the United States Air Force maintain a civilian-military
relationship which is based upon the Civil Air Patrol's status as the USAF Auxiliary. As such, CAP's services to the nation and the USAF are: (1) voluntary, (2) benevolent, and (3) noncombatant.

Toting battle rattle around and getting a cool badge doesn't fit the charter.

What's next?

I would submit to you that UDFs and GMTs both tot "battle rattle", it's just called something else but I still see Cadets outfitted in a pistol belt, y-harness, two ammo pouches, two canteens, a first pouch, a compass & pouch, an angle-head flashlight, and a poncho strapped between the canteens... just like many of us wore for the majority of our military careers. There is no ammo or grenades but it is "battle rattle" none-the-less.

"Cool Badges"? Like NRA Marksmanship badges? VERY non-combative there.

CAP, for many seniors and cadets, is absolutely about "toting battle rattle around and getting a cool badge".

CAP, JROTC, and ROTC all have similar functions, organizations and training. Lets not kid ourselves the military looks to JROTC and CAP as a recruiting pool... shallow warm waters where the fishing is good.

Charter vs. practice, sometimes they just don't meet.

[THRAWN]

CAP, JROTC, and ROTC all have similar functions, organizations and training

Except that they don't. ROTC programs are designed as commissioning programs. JROTC programs are feeder programs for them. CAP is not.

NRA Marksmanship programs are not combative.

Bottom line, the marches, the Dutch Military Proficiency Badge, the German Military Proficiency Badge have ZERO to do with CAP. Want to get them awarded to some cadets? Help out a ROTC or JROTC unit.

Spend some time with the programs.

[jeders]

CAP, JROTC, and ROTC all have similar functions, organizations and training

Except that they don't. ROTC programs are designed as commissioning programs. JROTC programs are feeder programs for them. CAP is not.

Is ROTC a commissioning program, yes; does everyone who enters ROTC commission or join the military, absolutely not. The first two years of ROTC are little different than JROTC or CAP CP in that they provide general education in leadership and other topics, i.e. it's a leadership program. After the first two years, ROTC cadets can continue on and then become obligated to serve, but before that it's just a leadership program that anyone can benefit from.

JROTC is in no way a feeder program into ROTC anymore than CAP, high school football, or FFA are. It is designed to "Develop citizens of character dedicated to serving their nation and community." The CAP CP is designed to "transform youth into dynamic Americans and aerospace leaders."

All three programs use a military structure and cadet-run programs to teach leadership and to develop citizens. Only one of the three is designed to actually generate officers, and even that only applies to a portion of their cadets.

To say that the three programs do not share a similar purpose, organization, or training is disingenuous at best since the CAP CP is and has always been a military-style leadership program, just like JROTC and parts of ROTC.

[Shuman 14]

NRA Marksmanship programs are not combative.

(Roll Eyes) 8-)

If you ever get shot at in anger... remember to tell that to the bullet.

[THRAWN]

NRA Marksmanship programs are not combative.

(Roll Eyes) 8-)

If you ever get shot at in anger... remember to tell that to the bullet.

The program is pretty simple to understand, and it's not about combat.

In the interest of Ben Franklin's advice, you're absolutely correct, can't believe that I allowed a reading of the law to mislead me.

What's next?

[Shuman 14]

NRA Marksmanship programs are not combative.

(Roll Eyes) 8-)

If you ever get shot at in anger... remember to tell that to the bullet.

The program is pretty simple to understand, and it's not about combat.

In the interest of Ben Franklin's advice, you're absolutely correct, can't believe that I allowed a reading of the law to mislead me.

What's next?

Regardless if you are shooting at a little round circle bullseye, the silhouette of an 8-point buck, or the silhouette of a man... marksmanship training increases your ability to KILL.

In combat, you shoot to KILL the enemy. Therefore NRA training IS about combat.

Hid behind whatever legal language you like, it doesn't change the fact that NRA training will make you a better killer in combat. 

[NovemberWhiskey]

OK, but so will improved physical fitness, spatial reasoning, good nutrition, level-headedness, resilience, communication skills and so on. Teleology is important - those things aren't intrinsically about lethality; neither I would assume is most sporting gun usage outside of hunting.

[THRAWN]

NRA Marksmanship programs are not combative.

(Roll Eyes) 8-)

If you ever get shot at in anger... remember to tell that to the bullet.

The program is pretty simple to understand, and it's not about combat.

In the interest of Ben Franklin's advice, you're absolutely correct, can't believe that I allowed a reading of the law to mislead me.

What's next?

Regardless if you are shooting at a little round circle bullseye, the silhouette of an 8-point buck, or the silhouette of a man... marksmanship training increases your ability to KILL.

In combat, you shoot to KILL the enemy. Therefore NRA training IS about combat.

Hid behind whatever legal language you like, it doesn't change the fact that NRA training will make you a better killer in combat. 

You're the expert...

[PHall]

Shuman 14, maybe, just maybe you might want to take just a little look at CAPR 60-1, The Cadet Program, before you make any more "suggestions" about the CAP Cadet Program.

[Shuman 14]

Shuman 14, maybe, just maybe you might want to take just a little look at CAPR 60-1, The Cadet Program, before you make any more "suggestions" about the CAP Cadet Program.

Yes I've been through Cadet Protection and TLC, I am familiar with the regulation.

I would say this all falls under chapter 2.9 High Adventure Activity. I don't see anything that would prohibit CAP from sending a team of all Cadets or a Composite Team of Seniors and Cadets to compete in the Four Day Marches or participate in a Dutch Military Proficiency Badge testing or a more local German Armed Forces Military Proficiency Badge testing. If you you do, please cite it.

[Shuman 14]

You're the expert...

Only with a Pistol. With a Rifle I'm lucky when I get Sharpshooter.   ;-P

[Shuman 14]

OK, but so will improved physical fitness, spatial reasoning, good nutrition, level-headedness, resilience, communication skills and so on. Teleology is important - those things aren't intrinsically about lethality; neither I would assume is most sporting gun usage outside of hunting.

Really? A firearm at it's very core is a weapon designed to kill. Even a target weapon is a deadly weapon that can kill.

It's not a fencing foil or a wooden Kendo sword, designed solely for sport and lacking the ability to be used to kill, it's a firearm plain and simple.

[THRAWN]

Shuman 14, maybe, just maybe you might want to take just a little look at CAPR 60-1, The Cadet Program, before you make any more "suggestions" about the CAP Cadet Program.

Yes I've been through Cadet Protection and TLC, I am familiar with the regulation.

I would say this all falls under chapter 2.9 High Adventure Activity. I don't see anything that would prohibit CAP from sending a team of all Cadets or a Composite Team of Seniors and Cadets to compete in the Four Day Marches or participate in a Dutch Military Proficiency Badge testing or a more local German Armed Forces Military Proficiency Badge testing. If you you do, please cite it.

Read the next section

[etodd]

Jeepers.

This thread started with someone wanting to find a way to add a cool badge to his collection.

Got hijacked and taken for a big turn.

"Whatcha talkin' 'bout Willis?"

[THRAWN]

Jeepers.

This thread started with someone wanting to find a way to add a cool badge to his collection.

Got hijacked and taken for a big turn.

"Whatcha talkin' 'bout Willis?"

It all ties together.