List of CAP locations where we have permanent facilities (leased or owned?)

Started by Holding Pattern, November 17, 2021, 11:07:58 PM

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OK yeah, you got me.

There is no such thing as a printed publication in Civil Air Patrol anymore.

Certificates, trophies, posters, CP pubs, AE materials,  STEM kits, ES Training materials,  maps,  compasses, sectionals,  yep.  All cloud based.

Come on, Bob. There are plenty of things a unit might keep locally. Nvm the old insignia box

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
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Quote from: Eclipse on November 19, 2021, 03:10:55 PM(until lawyers get involved, of course).

You say that like it is a Bad Thing (tm). 

"Lawyers are our Friends."

And lawyers' kids need to pay for encampment just like everyone else.  Be nice to lawyers.  :)


I don't disagree at all on the benefits of a contract, especially when it comes to the protections of physical assets (i.e., liability agreements) and terms and conditions of eviction.

There are still a number of units that meet without any contractual arrangement that dread, on a weekly basis, what happens if they "upset the host." "Will we be kicked out this week? Will they ask us to move our stuff?" I was very much in a unit like that previously where we had a grossly diminished relationship with our landlords after nearly thirty years of occupancy in the space (and people living on the old "Well, we've been here for decades" stance while I'm asking "Yes, but we can't even use the space these days").

A big issue that many units face is that they have these deals to "pay back" their host through volunteerism. At airports, it often means working the annual air show (etc). And when the unit can't commit for that year, it becomes this allegation of "But we let you guys use this space, and now you're not going to help us?"

Personally, I think the best route is to pay for a leased space under a contract because it covers all of the elements and removes most of the animosity. It also makes for a much more legitimate-seeming case for the CAP unit to say "We want a contract, especially if there is a financial tie-in."

It's when it starts coming to free (unpaid) arrangements that become very cloudy for many units, and there's a fear of causing a greater animosity. One of the common questions I've heard is "How long should the contract be for? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?"

Just as much as units are looking for a good host, units also need to be good guests/tenants. Saying that you'll meet every Monday from 6pm-9pm is fine. It's when you start meeting on Saturdays as well that the facility is like "Hold up. Wait a minute. Somethin' ain't right!" Now you're extending beyond your footprint, and most businesses that have this vast open meeting space on Mondays are trying to keep it filled for the rest of the week.

I think the best-case scenario here is for Wings to have legal officers who proactively engagement with units about how contracts should not only be written, but how to best initiate the first conversations with their hosts to start drafting a contract. At the present, I would assume and argue that most CAP units probably don't have contracts with their meeting space because they don't know what it entails and fear that it's just a more complicated process that they don't want to get involved in. They like what they have, and they don't want to lose it (while open to that risk every day of every week already).


Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 23, 2021, 05:02:56 PMI think the best-case scenario here is for Wings to have legal officers who proactively engagement with units

This is simultaneously true and hilarious.

"That Others May Zoom"


A real case (positive one):
For years the unit I was in had a 'letter' agreement with the pastor of the church we met at. It had no expiration date. When the pastor changed, they implemented an annual application process, which we complied with. We had listed as use of the ground floor of the community area with several classrooms, Monday evenings, 6:30-9p, with up to 1 Saturday per month subject to prior coordination. National wanted a force majour clause added, which the church agreed to, but they wanted a certificate of insurance, which National provided. The church also provided (and included in the application) a 8' x 10' storage room that only we had use of, as opposed to the shared space many other organizations had to use. We also had a note our leadership may arrive up to 30 minutes early and remain up to 30 minutes late for set up and clean up. All for no cost.

Other than the force majour provisions, it was a simple process and spelled out everything.