CAPR 60-2 Interpretation in regards to Fraternization

[bobross1846]

So, as per CAPR 60-2;

2.4.1. Cadet-to-Cadet Fraternization. It is not inherently improper for cadets to have personal or romantic relationships with other cadets; however, relationships between cadets of substantially different ages or grades, or between cadets within the same chain of command, are discouraged. Cadets will not engage in inappropriate touching or displays of affection by kissing, hugging, or similar conduct while at
a CAP activity.

When it says "...or between cadets within the same chain of command, are discouraged.", what could a hypothetical CC do if they held that a staff member had a romantic interest in another staff member that technically was in a subordinate role?  Would they have any leg to stand on in any disciplinary hearing?

[jeders]

As you quoted, relationships, romantic or otherwise, are discouraged, but not prohibited. So just being in a relationship does not provide grounds to do anything other than provide an opportunity for further mentoring on professionalism. However, if the relationship becomes disruptive to the unit as a whole, then disciplinary action can and should be taken in order to limit/stop the disruption.

The best way to handle it is the same way that the seniors in my unit handled it when my (now) wife and I were cadets and dating. As soon as the relationship becomes known, sit down with them and tell them, "You were put in the position because we have trust and faith in your ability to conduct yourselves professionally and we expect that professional conduct to continue. If you can't remain professional, then one or both of you may be removed from your position until such time as you demonstrate that you can conduct yourself professionally while in a relationship." Simple, to the point, and lets everyone know what the expectation is.

[bobross1846]

Alright thank you

Is there any regulation other than 60-2 that deals with this? I want to make sure I've done all the reading beforehand

[Eclipse]

what could a hypothetical CC do if they held that a staff member had a romantic interest in another staff member that technically was in a subordinate role?

Advise them in the same way that any manager or parent would about best practices when
dealing with work / personal relationships.

In regards to subordination, there is no "technically" either they are or they aren't,
especially in a paramilitary organization.  Roles should always be clear, when they are not
is when the arguments and misunderstandings start.

A mentoring session for the entire unit, to include the adults, about this topic, would be a good way
to handle it - generalize, don't single anyone out.

Would they have any leg to stand on in any disciplinary hearing?

Yes if the behavior is negatively impacting the unit, other members, or their performance as cadets
then certainly they can be disciplined on that basis.

If you have two cadets dating, who are able to keep it separate, discreet, or at least doing
so in a way that does not cause negative issues, then there no basis to block things as a matter of
course.

Mature, experienced adults frequently do not possess the ability to manage a relationship
with a coworker, let alone a subordinate (which is why many organizations prohibit it), rare is
the adolescents that can.

At a minimum they need to know the risks associated with the behavior.

[TheSkyHornet]

Remember that cadet-to-cadet relationships are none of your business unless:

• There is a jeopardy to the safety/wellbeing of the individuals
• There is an impact/disruption to the unit's program

If a cadet decides to focus on the romance and stops taking their leadership tests, that's their issue.

If a cadet decides to focus on the romance and is not performing their duties as a first sergeant, that's an area that requires being addressed...from the standpoint of the performance of the individual, not the causal factor.

If cadets are holding hands or being flirtatious at meetings, address it. It's unprofessional.

[etodd]

In the hypothetical, I would hope that the CC would not be taking it personally, if he/she was interested in one of the parties. Jealousy and envy should never be part of a CC's thinking. Get over it.

As others have said, the CC should mind his/her/they/it own business unless there is some activity affecting others or performance.

[TheSkyHornet]

In the hypothetical, I would hope that the CC would not be taking it personally, if he/she was interested in one of the parties. Jealousy and envy should never be part of a CC's thinking. Get over it.

As others have said, the CC should mind his/her/they/it own business unless there is some activity affecting others or performance.

To piggyback on this, having run into it many times before, the best approach is to be aware and to leave it alone and let it go; but to expect that it's going to develop into a problem. Don't do anything until it starts to become a problem, but just anticipate it.

Be respectful and mind your own business, and respect their right to privacy, until it actually progresses to being an issue.

[Spam]

Since you ask about other pubs, recommend (strongly) the two TLC courses, and in particular the elements dealing with progressive discipline and documentation of incidents. Documentdocumentdocument!!! Because experience shows the longer you do CP, the odds are, you will need to back up a disciplinary action, or termination.


From a practical standpoint:

1. Recommend a standard practice of using the Membership Committee (with formal Minutes taken) to document all counseling sessions in this regard. I once used this preemptively to welcome three transfers into one unit - making the point that drama would not be accepted (and of course drama ensued, as they were on their third unit, shopping among the opposite sex, and we ended up with disciplinary cases from this). Also - when you have issued a verbal prompt on the spot, document and file that (in both personnel files). You should be able to make a strong case if/when someone protests a disciplinary action you need to impose (e.g. removal from staff, all the way up to termination).


2. Recommend that you ramp up supervision and wellness checks with parents when you detect possible frat issues, ASAP. Case in point, watch cadets as they leave/depart the meeting/activity, track attendance, and follow up with parents. I've caught cadets claiming meeting/activity attendance to their parents while they were skipping off together.  I've caught cadets departing the meeting in a car convoy in an unusual direction, to pull around to park behind our meeting facility together at 930PM (picture their faces when my Deputy and I pulled in behind them). So, contact your parents, and be clear that your expectation is that their cadets go HOME after events when in uniform. Discuss car pooling expectations also.


3. Post (and maintain) a unit training and event calendar (as required by regulations) and stay in contact with parents about it. I've had interactions with parents who believed that their cadets were at a nonexistent CAP event, usually they were told it was an unscheduled "staff meeting", when they were off together (thats an old story - heard it in the 80s, 90s, 00s, etc.). (If any of my units are reading this - this is only part of why I keep harping on calendars/plans).


All of these sound like normal CPP measures. Yet, in multiple instances, a common but weak defense offered to me was that the fraternizing couple(s) were "on staff" and "needed to consult and plan", which is just laughable. Many of us have seen good cadet units crippled nearly overnight because of members who treat the cadet staff chain of command as a dating pool, so vigilance to prune the members who can't behave is regrettably necessary on occasion. Counseling, removing from staff, suspending, demoting, or terminating them sends a clear message when needed that this is a (volunteer) workplace.


R/s
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