August 11, 2022, 05:00:08 pm

CAWG Mobile Kitchen

Started by Fubar, July 01, 2021, 12:10:52 am

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Fubar

July 01, 2021, 12:10:52 am Last Edit: July 01, 2021, 06:52:27 pm by SarDragon
Quote from: Holding Pattern on June 30, 2021, 10:13:44 pmMeanwhile on Facebook a member posted about how CAWG managed to put together a mobile kitchen for CAP and other CAP members outside of the wing are talking about what a horrible idea it is and how it isn't core to our mission.

Because of some of the missions the coast guard executes lend themselves to civilian participation, the coast guard aux folks have always had far more opportunities to assist their parent organization in an operational manner. Cooking for the crew seems like a great way for an auxiliary to provide support to their parent organization. I can't think of a scenario where the Air Force would appreciate CAP members regularly cooking for them, let alone a scenario where the Air Force would need a mobile feeding unit. Make your own joke about the Air Force just calling down to room service. So the mobile kitchen is an awesome toy, but definitely outside our mission scope (and already covered by the Red Cross, Salvation Army, and the Baptist Kitchens to name a few).

One thing that COVID missions showed us is that long-term sustained missions that occur during the workday are really hard to maintain. Filling a shift once or twice a week in perpetuity is really hard to manage with a volunteer staff even if your local base had something CAP could assist them with once or twice a week. It's obviously exponentially harder the more days they'd want someone to come in.

The best case scenario would be some sort of project that just needs worker bees to show up and if there's an extra worker bee there from CAP, great, if not, nobody cares. Any task that success hinges on the volunteer showing up to run the thing is problematic at best.

etodd

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 01, 2021, 12:16:06 amOdd, I have never seen the Salvation Army mobile kitchen at any CAP encampment, exercise or event. California Wing clearly disagrees with your assessment.

I think the point many were making, including myself when I saw the first photos of it, was that it would be great to take to hurricane and other disasters to feed the multitudes of workers and people flooded out of homes. But that idea was quickly shot down saying it was only there to feed CAP members.  :(
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Eclipse

July 01, 2021, 01:12:03 am #2 Last Edit: July 01, 2021, 01:24:35 am by Eclipse
Quote from: JohhnyD on July 01, 2021, 12:16:06 amOdd, I have never seen the Salvation Army mobile kitchen at any CAP encampment, exercise or event.

SA and ARC are generally happy to come out and serve other volunteers as long as you arrange far enough in advance,
however the realty is that the majority of CAP ops, both training and the occasional real-word, take place in urban areas, well within reach of commercial restaurants, and / or are specifically intended to test peoples ability to plan far enough in advance to pack an MRE or a sammich.


Quote from: JohhnyD on July 01, 2021, 12:16:06 amCalifornia Wing clearly disagrees with your assessment.

This thing is ridiculous.

Full.

Stop.





I honestly thought it was a Shopped joke when I saw it.

There has never been a CAP mission with the need to sustain food service on this scale
(please, by all means extol everyone with that one time everyone was super
hungry at the air show), but more importantly, not for the scope of times needed
to justify something like this.

The amount of money that could have been spent on core-mission things like scholarships,
encampments, is staggering (doesn't matter if it doesn't come from that pool).

I give it a year, maybe two, before it's parked at WingHQ with no one to drive it and needing
$10k worth of tires.

Assuming someone came up with a use case for food trucks, one or two standard food trailers
would be more than enough, and not carry the burden that Optimus Lunchtime does.

"That Others May Zoom"

JohhnyD

Quote from: Eclipse on July 01, 2021, 01:12:03 am
Quote from: JohhnyD on July 01, 2021, 12:16:06 amOdd, I have never seen the Salvation Army mobile kitchen at any CAP encampment, exercise or event.

SA and ARC are generally happy to come out and serve other volunteers as long as you arrange far enough in advance,
however the realty is that the majority of CAP ops, both training and the occasional real-word, take place in urban areas, well within reach of commercial restaurants, and / or are specifically intended to test peoples ability to plan far enough in advance to pack an MRE or a sammich.


Quote from: JohhnyD on July 01, 2021, 12:16:06 amCalifornia Wing clearly disagrees with your assessment.

This thing is ridiculous.

Full.

Stop.





I honestly thought it was a Shopped joke when I saw it.

There has never been a CAP mission with the need to sustain food service on this scale
(please, by all means extol everyone with that one time everyone was super
hungry at the air show), but more importantly, not for the scope of times needed
to justify something like this.

The amount of money that could have been spent on core-mission things like scholarships,
encampments, is staggering (doesn't matter if it doesn't come from that pool).

I give it a year, maybe two, before it's parked at WingHQ with no one to drive it and needing
$10k worth of tires.

Assuming someone came up with a use case for food trucks, one or two standard food trailers
would be more than enough, and not carry the burden that Optimus Lunchtime does.
And yet it is regularly tasked and used. So much for the naysayers.

JohhnyD

Dear Fellow California Wing Members,
            I want to share a California Wing success story about Maj Doug Miller (congratulations on your new promotion!), Maj Richard Benson of California Wing our NHQ Director of CAP Philanthropy, Kristina Jones.  Some time ago Maj. Miller got the wild idea that California Wing could use a mobile kitchen for events, SAR and Disaster Relief.  So off he went, working behind the curtain as he does and the next thing you know, Maj Miller calls me and says he's got this great mobile kitchen and, of all things, a tractor to pull it. Oh and by the way, he also had a plan for funding, licensing, insurance, transporting, storing, and resourcing this utility.  So a number of months go by and Maj Miller is working directly with Kristina Jones to make sure that the Philanthropic donation was vetted and properly documented. All this done, Maj Miller worked diligently with Maj Richard Benson and together with their team, created this absolutely beautiful Mobile Kitchen, outfitted it and had it painted in fabulous CAP regalia. 
            You will see in the photos below that this utility is absolutely a top notch resource.  This world class utility is already in use internally at CAP events and is a vital asset to the California Wing initiative to become the premier Disaster preparedness, Prevention and Relief Organization.  This is and will be a great recruiting and retention tool and will benefit all of us for years to come.  It is initiative, resourcefulness and enthusiasm like this that makes our organization so great.  I want to convey my highest commendation to Maj Miller, Maj Benson, and Kristina Jones for making this all possible and helping to build California Wing and CAP through innovation.
Kudos and congratulations All!
Best regards,
Col Ross Veta,
CAWG Commander

SarDragon

Quote from: Eclipse on July 01, 2021, 01:12:03 am[Dross elided]

There has never been a CAP mission with the need to sustain food service on this scale
(please, by all means extol everyone with that one time everyone was super
hungry at the air show), but more importantly, not for the scope of times needed
to justify something like this.

That unit is in use as we speak, providing meals for the CAWG Summer Encampment. I'm sure it will see use at various SAREXes and other activities in coming months.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

etodd

Quote from: SarDragon on July 01, 2021, 03:05:41 amThat unit is in use as we speak, providing meals for the CAWG Summer Encampment. I'm sure it will see use at various SAREXes and other activities in coming months.

I'm fine with ordering in pizza like we usually do.  This truck should be saved for disaster relief, feeding workers from many agencies, and victims of an event. Not feeding CAP members at a SAREX. JMHO
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

arajca

Training on how to use the equipment is very appropriate at a SAREX. If the only time it gets pulled out is for real life missions, how will anyone know how to use efficiently?

SarDragon

Quote from: etodd on July 01, 2021, 03:13:21 am
Quote from: SarDragon on July 01, 2021, 03:05:41 amThat unit is in use as we speak, providing meals for the CAWG Summer Encampment. I'm sure it will see use at various SAREXes and other activities in coming months.

I'm fine with ordering in pizza like we usually do.  This truck should be saved for disaster relief, feeding workers from many agencies, and victims of an event. Not feeding CAP members at a SAREX. JMHO

We have large, multiple-group participation SAREXes here. I count at least five in the last two years with over 40 participants each day, generally feeding two meals each day. And this ain't just coke and sammiches. Pizza gets olde after a while, and some folks either don't like it, or can't eat it.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Capt Thompson

Even larger SAREX's usually don't have a huge budget, and the budget they do get is usually spent on fuel for vans and planes. A call a month ahead to the Red Cross usually generates a food truck free of charge that will feed us for the duration, and they are usually happy to provide the service as their people need the training as well. I wonder what the average cost is to fuel that thing and supply it with food for a weekend SAREX? How many more sorties could have been flown if we called the Red Cross, and diverted the food truck money to 100LL instead?

Same goes for Encampment, is it being held at a remote location that requires food to be brought in, or are we using it in place of the base DFAC just because we have it and need to justify it's existence? How much does it cost to run vs. whatever the base was charging for the DFAC? I wonder if they needed to have it licensed in some way? Are we requiring members to have ServSafe training before working on the food truck, and if not, what sort of liabilities does that bring up?

This first person that gets really sick, due to E coli from the CAP food truck, and it will be parked at Wing HQ long before it needs those new tires.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

NovemberWhiskey

From that CAWG Facebook post, it looks like it may have been a targeted gift. If you have a donor with a specific idea of what they think CAP could use, I guess your alternative is to say no.

Capt Thompson

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on July 01, 2021, 12:59:23 pmFrom that CAWG Facebook post, it looks like it may have been a targeted gift. If you have a donor with a specific idea of what they think CAP could use, I guess your alternative is to say no.

From the article, it looks like a member had the idea for the food truck, and sought out the donation. It was definitely a generous donation, but it could have been sold and used to fund a much smaller unit that doesn't require a semi to pull. Like Eclipse said, the operating costs of such a large unit will be high, and it will be parked as soon as the tires need replacing and it's not in the Wing budget, or the one member with the CDL leaves CAP and they can't find someone qualified to drive the thing.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

N6RVT

Quote from: Eclipse on July 01, 2021, 01:17:23 amVSAF failed because like many other "good ideas" it wanted CAP bodies, but not CAP members, with nothing duty-wise that required a member ID (except contact information).

Someone in California Wing HQ said we had enough free manual labor on weekdays to run a food bank mission thats still ongoing.  And then rapidly burned out the few available people.

N6RVT

Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 01, 2021, 12:28:13 pmEven larger SAREX's usually don't have a huge budget, and the budget they do get is usually spent on fuel for vans and planes. A call a month ahead to the Red Cross usually generates a food truck free of charge that will feed us for the duration, and they are usually happy to provide the service as their people need the training as well. I wonder what the average cost is to fuel that thing and supply it with food for a weekend SAREX?

If they had made that into an incident command post instead it not only could have handled any event we have, even IC-1 level events, but from the looks of it would have been so much nicer than what actual EMS has we would have been invited to participate in a lot of events and it could have been our ticket back into mainstream EMS.  Which to a lesser extent it might still be I suppose.  Food support for all the firefighting going on at the moment could still be a lot of positive exposure.

Capt Thompson

Quote from: Dwight Dutton on July 01, 2021, 03:36:18 pm
Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 01, 2021, 12:28:13 pmEven larger SAREX's usually don't have a huge budget, and the budget they do get is usually spent on fuel for vans and planes. A call a month ahead to the Red Cross usually generates a food truck free of charge that will feed us for the duration, and they are usually happy to provide the service as their people need the training as well. I wonder what the average cost is to fuel that thing and supply it with food for a weekend SAREX?

If they had made that into an incident command post instead it not only could have handled any event we have, even IC-1 level events, but from the looks of it would have been so much nicer than what actual EMS has we would have been invited to participate in a lot of events and it could have been our ticket back into mainstream EMS.  Which to a lesser extent it might still be I suppose.  Food support for all the firefighting going on at the moment could still be a lot of positive exposure.
True, but then you don't want to only be invited to the party because you bring good snacks, but when you try to get out on the dance floor you're completely shut down. A mobile EOC with full comms would be awesome, and maybe add a small galley on the back to take care of our people.

Could be cool at recruiting events though.....here, take a brochure and a Cubano with extra mustard....might get a bigger audience to spread the word about CAP!
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

JohhnyD

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on July 01, 2021, 12:59:23 pmIt was definitely a generous donation, but it could have been sold and used to fund a much smaller unit that doesn't require a semi to pull.
Great way to impress a donor, take the gift, sell it.

N6RVT

Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 01, 2021, 04:12:19 pmA mobile EOC with full comms would be awesome.

We have that -its an old converted camper pulled by a pickup truck, and its borderline crap.  THIS thing looks like it rolled off a showroom floor.

NovemberWhiskey

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 01, 2021, 04:52:13 pmGreat way to impress a donor, take the gift, sell it.

I didn't write that - please be careful when trimming quotes.

Capt Thompson

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 01, 2021, 04:52:13 pm
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on July 01, 2021, 12:59:23 pmIt was definitely a generous donation, but it could have been sold and used to fund a much smaller unit that doesn't require a semi to pull.
Great way to impress a donor, take the gift, sell it.
It's called being up front with your donor.

"Johnny, that's an awfully generous gift, and I don't think we will need something this big, would you be opposed to us selling the unit and purchasing something smaller with lower maintenance costs, and using the remainder for future maintenance needs?"
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

JohhnyD

Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 01, 2021, 05:18:55 pm
Quote from: JohhnyD on July 01, 2021, 04:52:13 pm
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on July 01, 2021, 12:59:23 pmIt was definitely a generous donation, but it could have been sold and used to fund a much smaller unit that doesn't require a semi to pull.
Great way to impress a donor, take the gift, sell it.
It's called being up front with your donor.

"Johnny, that's an awfully generous gift, and I don't think we will need something this big, would you be opposed to us selling the unit and purchasing something smaller with lower maintenance costs, and using the remainder for future maintenance needs?"

Perfect. And yet CAWG wanted this, believed in it and is excited to have it. Q.E.D.

JohhnyD

Look, the money could have done many things. The Wing and the donors chose this. We will be looking for a number of very large donations over the near and mid-term, none of them for this type of foodservice vehicle. That said, if we were donated this, we would absolutely use it! A lot!

N6RVT

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 01, 2021, 05:31:10 pmPerfect. And yet CAWG wanted this, believed in it and is excited to have it. Q.E.D.

Reasonably sure this will be at Mission Aircrew school, so I'll get to see it in less than a month.  Also can a moderator move this to its own thread?  It has nothing to do with the original topic.

PHall

Quote from: etodd on July 01, 2021, 03:13:21 am
Quote from: SarDragon on July 01, 2021, 03:05:41 amThat unit is in use as we speak, providing meals for the CAWG Summer Encampment. I'm sure it will see use at various SAREXes and other activities in coming months.

I'm fine with ordering in pizza like we usually do.  This truck should be saved for disaster relief, feeding workers from many agencies, and victims of an event. Not feeding CAP members at a SAREX. JMHO


Can't eat pizza for 3 meals a day for 8 days, please try again.

NovemberWhiskey

Quote from: PHall on July 01, 2021, 11:05:38 pmCan't eat pizza for 3 meals a day for 8 days, please try again.

Are they really feeding the entire encampment out of a mobile kitchen when there's a perfectly good DFAC at the encampment location?

SarDragon

Phil knows much more about this than I, but I recall NG staffing issues with using the Camp SLO kitchen. These will not exist with the mobile kitchen.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

N6RVT

Quote from: PHall on July 01, 2021, 11:05:38 pmCan't eat pizza for 3 meals a day for 8 days, please try again.

Mission Aircrew School is at the end of this month, there are hundreds of people at that event, and no kitchen.  For that, at least, this is indeed the answer.

PHall

Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on July 01, 2021, 11:17:55 pm
Quote from: PHall on July 01, 2021, 11:05:38 pmCan't eat pizza for 3 meals a day for 8 days, please try again.

Are they really feeding the entire encampment out of a mobile kitchen when there's a perfectly good DFAC at the encampment location?

At $17 a day for everyone there. Can't afford that. We can feed ourselves for about $9 a day.

Eclipse

Quote from: PHall on July 02, 2021, 02:35:18 amAt $17 a day for everyone there. Can't afford that.

A CAWG encampment can't afford $17 a day for meals at $300 per student?

There's 30 legit talking points about why Optimus Lunchtime is a good idea,
not buying this one.

"That Others May Zoom"

Capt Thompson

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 01, 2021, 05:36:19 pmThat said, if we were donated this, we would absolutely use it! A lot!
Maybe, if the operating costs were within the budget, but the second the trailer becomes too expensive to maintain, it becomes a lawn ornament next to Wing HQ. Sometimes you have to look at overly generous donations and ask questions, rather than jumping on the chance to have the new toys. Is the person donating the trailer and rig because they can't afford to maintain it? Is this going to be a hole in the ground we throw money into? I'm hoping those questions were asked before accepting the donation.

Back in the 80's, our Squadron was gifted an old UPS truck, which they quickly painted black with the Squadron logo and the words "Search and Rescue" on the side and used it as a mobile command post. It was great but horrible on gas so it didn't get a lot of use, and then the old engine needed an overhaul and the Squadron only had a few hundred bucks in the bank, so it became a lawn ornament for a few years and was eventually sold for scrap.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

JohhnyD

July 02, 2021, 09:45:33 pm #29 Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 01:17:37 am by JohhnyD
Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 02, 2021, 01:34:55 pm
Quote from: JohhnyD on July 01, 2021, 05:36:19 pmThat said, if we were donated this, we would absolutely use it! A lot!
Maybe, if the operating costs were within the budget, but the second the trailer becomes too expensive to maintain, it becomes a lawn ornament next to Wing HQ. Sometimes you have to look at overly generous donations and ask questions, rather than jumping on the chance to have the new toys. Is the person donating the trailer and rig because they can't afford to maintain it? Is this going to be a hole in the ground we throw money into? I'm hoping those questions were asked before accepting the donation.

Back in the 80's, our Squadron was gifted an old UPS truck, which they quickly painted black with the Squadron logo and the words "Search and Rescue" on the side and used it as a mobile command post. It was great but horrible on gas so it didn't get a lot of use, and then the old engine needed an overhaul and the Squadron only had a few hundred bucks in the bank, so it became a lawn ornament for a few years and was eventually sold for scrap.
So the donation includes the m and o and insurance. Next objection?

Spam

I will be so disappointed in my CA Wing brothers and sisters if they don't nickname this thing "Optimus Lunchbox" and paint a Transformers logo on the side. What a great name.

(refills popcorn, sits back to continue watching)
Please... play on...

V/r
Spam

Eclipse

Quote from: Spam on July 02, 2021, 10:54:38 pmI will be so disappointed in my CA Wing brothers and sisters if they don't nickname this thing "Optimus Lunchbox" and paint a Transformers logo on the side. What a great name.

Optimus Lunchtime

But at least nice to see we're both "there".

"That Others May Zoom"

JohhnyD

The CAPtalk emblem really out to be the CARP.

Spam

Quote from: Eclipse on July 02, 2021, 11:14:43 pm
Quote from: Spam on July 02, 2021, 10:54:38 pmI will be so disappointed in my CA Wing brothers and sisters if they don't nickname this thing "Optimus Lunchbox" and paint a Transformers logo on the side. What a great name.

Optimus Lunchtime

But at least nice to see we're both "there".

Lunchtime... Sounds to much like it was sponsored by Jeff Bezos (Prime/Time?). I'm not carping though!  ;D ;D ;D

Well, only in the sense that it would be following USAF/USAAF history, with nose art, is my thought. Thinking about famous nose art like the "Memphis Belle", or "2 Big and Two Heavy" (the P47N from the 318th, a favorite of mine).  I'm staying out of the O&M budgets debate and the OT safety and suitability debates, I've no dog in that fight.


(Popcorn needs more butter...)

Cheers!
Spam ("Levi-OH-sah, not leviosa")

fyrfitrmedic

From pre-1979 (when I joined) until the early 90s or so my original squadron, 1001 in PAWG, had mass feeding capability. Field stoves, tables and chairs, a GP medium, and everything else needed was packed in a trailer and the vintage deuce-and-a-half that pulled it. When the surplus vehicles went away, so did the capability. I don't remember ever seeing this set up on anything but group-level SAR and DR exercises.
MAJ Tony Rowley CAP
Lansdowne PA USA
"The passion of rescue reveals the highest dynamic of the human soul." -- Kurt Hahn

N6RVT

Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on July 03, 2021, 09:29:31 pmFrom pre-1979 (when I joined) until the early 90s or so my original squadron, 1001 in PAWG, had mass feeding capability. Field stoves, tables and chairs, a GP medium, and everything else needed was packed in a trailer and the vintage deuce-and-a-half that pulled it. When the surplus vehicles went away, so did the capability. I don't remember ever seeing this set up on anything but group-level SAR and DR exercises.

Squadron 51 here in California, where I was about the same time, had the same capacity the same way.  In fact it was the incentive for cadets to get an ES card (which is GES now) because without it, they were on KP.

AdAstra

Squadron 51? I recall that it was Squadron 3.
Charles Wiest

N6RVT

Quote from: AdAstra on July 04, 2021, 06:47:39 pmSquadron 51? I recall that it was Squadron 3.

I never had anything to do with Squadron 3.  It was Rick Decastro of squadron 51, later the wing ES officer, who set that up.  Same guy who used a .45 to shoot a lock off a gate to get to an ELT.