Does anybody know where to buy a magnetic ribbon rack?

[Eclipse]

if the NC accepted submissions from the field, they might get hundreds of emails daily.

They did, and they did.

In fact two revs back 39-1 was put out for comment, as were most other regs at the time.

The results were about as you'd expect, including the receptiveness to both comments
and corrections.

[Ned]

And as I pointed out, Step Two above, allows for anyone in the Chain of Command to use their personal preferences (and personnel dislikes) to a reasonable recommendation, to make it go away.

It's a suggestion box connected to a shredder.

That's not how military Uniform Boards work, they allow for general input. CAP does not. That's a good old boy system that does the membership a disservice.

Sounds like I should have instead steered you toward CAPR 1-2, which talks about how regs get changed.

I agree that national-level committees, and the NUC in particular, tend to have a bunch of CAP colonels that may be decades or so away from Tuesday night meetings.

Goodness knows I have served, and continue to serve, on more than my fair share of committees and working groups.

And reasonable minds differ on both CAP uniforms, and the process on how possible changes should be considered.  I get that.

But as others have pointed out, based on my 50 years or so, allowing anyone with a good idea to go VFR-direct to the NUC would quickly bog down because we have a higher percentage of members than you might expect who have very strong opinions on what looks "better," "more professional," or is more respectful of our diverse membership.

I have a day job that has taught me to have a very thick skin and to listen carefully to passionate people.  So I don't feel attacked or threatened just because someone disagrees or has a new idea.

I do tend to sigh a bit when I see posts here about how CAP didn't try hard enough to convince our AF colleagues about some uniform point.  Or the posts that suggest that any differences in opinion could be settled if only we asked the CAP-USAF commander about it.

But I fully understand that it is difficult or impossible for us to have full transparency on our internal processes as relates to uniforms, and folks naturally wonder "hey, have you ever thought about asking the AF about X"?

So we will continue to discuss CAP uniforms passionately here on the interwebs.  I just wished we discussed our missions and accomplishments a bit more.

Peace.

[Eclipse]

I just wished we discussed our missions and accomplishments a bit more.

There need to be some in order to foster the discussion(s).

The primary reason there is so much discussion about the multi-form is that the regs and policies are a hot mess of unintended consequences, ineffective compromise, lack of suppliers, and lack of options (often even consideration of them) for common circumstances (i.e. cold and hot weather) made worse by being written like a military reg instead of document civilians (i.e. moms)can understand, not to mention.

The lack of mentoring and enforcement of the regs, and allowances for all sorts of "local color", both official and
unofficial, result in people seeking out an answer somewhere, and there aren't too many other "somewheres" (snark and arguments not withstanding.

Long ago I learned that as soon more than one person in any group asks the same question, the fix is to address the
answer in short, clear sentences and then move on.

I also learned that "actions speak louder then intent", and people do what they want to do.
The multiform and the supplier situation has been a consistent and increasing issue for 20 years.
There are simple fixes to everything.

NHQ has shown it is not interested in them.

[Shuman 14]

What percentage of CAP members as a whole, participate in this Uniform Forum on CAPTalk? Just based on the number of threads here, and you multiply it out by total membership percentages... if the NC accepted submissions from the field, they might get hundreds of emails daily. Several thousand a month. With each being a different viewpoint. Just not enough manpower to even begin to tabulate all that. Just here in CAPTalk the ideas are all over the place.

Now I'll shutup since you all know me as the polo uniform guy. Life is much simpler this way.

Clearly, you didn't read my post well, or maybe I didn't explain it well enough myself.

I would like the process to still follow 13.2.2. Step 2, BUT, it can't be stopped at any level, it has to go through all the levels before it reaches the NUC for a final yes or no.

Currently, I can submit a recommendation to the NUC and my Squadron CC can take it and tear it up. Same at any other level of Command.

In my proposed change, all a CC can do is "Concur" or "Non-Concur" and forward it up the chain so a recommendation can have a "Non-Concur" from the submitter's Squadron, Group, Wing, Region and National CC but the memorandum with all those "Non-Concur" attached, still gets to the NUC for a final yes or no and then it goes back down the chain to the submitter.

Now, if the memorandum is not in the correct and proper format, and a given CC sends it back to the submitter for correction before he/she will "Concur" or "Non-Concur", that's fine. Only properly formatted memorandums will be forwarded.

I'm not recommending a free-for-all, I'm recommending a reasonable change that ensures ideas from the membership get a fair chance to be seen by the NUC.

I agree that an open NUC email will get flooded with crazy ideas filled with improper grammar and spelling errors as well as unrelated spam on top of well thought out ideas.

There still needs to be a system in place, it just can't be a system where one person can say no and end it all.

[etodd]

There still needs to be a system in place, it just can't be a system where one person can say no and end it all.

Or, we can just be good little people at the bottom, do our jobs that we enjoy, and simply wear whatever those at the top tell us to wear. We should be 99% about the missions we do and 1% about bling. (I'm out)

[Fubar]

made worse by being written like a military reg instead of document civilians (i.e. moms)can understand

Oh man, is this true. Granted there is a lot of CP folks out there (mostly parents) who haven't looked at a regulation because they expect everything to be explained to them,  but for those that actually try to stick their nose in that book definitely get confused.

[Fubar]

I've seen this play before, so I apologize for spoiling the ending.

A passionate member is certain that if they could just get the chance to make their argument personally to the committee, then suddenly the skies would part, the sun would shine down, and all would be right in the world because they would get their way.

Until the committee says, "Thanks, but no."

Then it's the committee that needs to be abolished since they don't make decisions but recommendations anyway. It's time for the HMFIC to be the person calling the shots, so let's go VFR direct to the big cheese.

Who then says, "Uh, no."

Then really a volunteer shouldn't be making these decisions, it's time to go to big blue directly because by FSM, they obviously know how important this is.

They really don't say anything but shrug as they walk away chuckling.

Then it's time to go find someone at 1AF, then SECDEF, and so on.

[SarDragon]

There still needs to be a system in place, it just can't be a system where one person can say no and end it all.

Or, we can just be good little people at the bottom, do our jobs that we enjoy, and simply wear whatever those at the top tell us to wear. We should be 99% about the missions we do and 1% about bling. (I'm out)

As a member who has worn many varieties of  uniforms off and on since 1964, I think that's a very narrow POV. We, the members, are the "customers ", and should have an input into uniform decisions. There have been changes in the past based on member input.

I do agree that the current system is flawed, and needs an update.

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk

[Shuman 14]

Or, we can just be good little people at the bottom, do our jobs that we enjoy, and simply wear whatever those at the top tell us to wear. We should be 99% about the missions we do and 1% about bling. (I'm out)

Baaah, said the sheep.

The Farmer rolls his eyes and shuts the barn door. (he's out)

[Jester]

Or, we can just be good little people at the bottom, do our jobs that we enjoy, and simply wear whatever those at the top tell us to wear. We should be 99% about the missions we do and 1% about bling. (I'm out)

Baaah, said the sheep.

The Farmer rolls his eyes and shuts the barn door. (he's out)

Don't give it too much thought, at least half of the posts in the uniform forum are him asking why there's so many uniform posts in the uniform forum, usually with a humblebrag attached.

"It's the pancake breakfast, we do it every month." -- Champ Kind

[N6RVT]

I've seen this play before, so I apologize for spoiling the ending.

It has no ending.

Civil Air Patrol does not pay its members with Money.  It has two forms of currency:

1. Funded flying hours, only good for pilots with at least 100, preferably 200 hours you got flying somewhere else first, or

2. Egoboo

Look up the latter, its actually in the dictionary now. Uniforms are a big part of that.

I do not think National considers uniforms unimportant.  Rather I think they are known to be a critical element and there is probably a storm of infighting as to what the correct answer should be, and what exists is an effort to please everybody.

Efforts to please everybody typically results in a compromise that pleases nobody.  Which in turn results in Uniforms being a topic for heated discussion, which is what you see here.

------

As to magnetic ribbon racks, having recently resigned from CAP, I now know why CAP ribbons show up so often as part of Hollywood costumes.

As to why I just posted on captalk, I come back here to remind myself why leaving was such a good idea.

[SarDragon]

On that note - C flat - we conclude this performance.