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Sourcing A Trailer

Started by ♠SARKID♠, August 19, 2014, 02:45:47 AM

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♠SARKID♠

So, my squadron spearheads the logistics on most wing activities. In order to make that happen it has required two vehicles and a small trailer, plus one more van to transport the folks from our squadron that are participating in the event. Things being what they are, we're losing stewardship of a wing vehicle that was located at our hangar. We needed that in a big way to support the wing activities. To make up for that loss, we're in the market for a covered trailer in the 6'x8'+ range.

Has anyone ever sourced one of these things? I'm trying to either find a trailer business to donate one, or to buy one cheap/get it donated from someone on Craigslist. I have wing logistics looking into screening one, but that might take a long, long time. Has anyone had any luck acquiring one of these? Or, if you're near WI (I'll travel to IL, northeast Iowa, upper MI, or eastern MN) do you have a lead on a covered trailer?

Eclipse

ILWG has one it may want to get rid of.

It's a dual-axle deal that needs some work, but should be more then serviceable, I think it's in the Western Chicago suburbs right now.

PM sent.

"That Others May Zoom"

GroundHawg

We received a donated double horse trailer when we were in the same situation. We modified as necessary and it worked out great. We did get a lot of questions about our "mounted SAR" program though :D

rustyjeeper

You are lucky to be able to use a trailer.
In my FORMER Wing before I left CAP (Massachusetts Wing)
There is a Wing policy forbidding the use of a trailer on a CAP vehicle and if you drive your own vehicle with a trailer attached you cannot have another CAP member in your vehicle with you.....

NIN

Quote from: rustyjeeper on August 22, 2014, 12:57:19 AM
You are lucky to be able to use a trailer.
In my FORMER Wing before I left CAP (Massachusetts Wing)
There is a Wing policy forbidding the use of a trailer on a CAP vehicle and if you drive your own vehicle with a trailer attached you cannot have another CAP member in your vehicle with you.....
Any idea why?
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

Quote from: NIN on August 28, 2014, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: rustyjeeper on August 22, 2014, 12:57:19 AM
You are lucky to be able to use a trailer.
In my FORMER Wing before I left CAP (Massachusetts Wing)
There is a Wing policy forbidding the use of a trailer on a CAP vehicle and if you drive your own vehicle with a trailer attached you cannot have another CAP member in your vehicle with you.....
Any idea why?

When hooked up, a 12-Pack COV + trailer hangs outside the state.

"That Others May Zoom"

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on August 28, 2014, 08:32:26 PM
Quote from: NIN on August 28, 2014, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: rustyjeeper on August 22, 2014, 12:57:19 AM
You are lucky to be able to use a trailer.
In my FORMER Wing before I left CAP (Massachusetts Wing)
There is a Wing policy forbidding the use of a trailer on a CAP vehicle and if you drive your own vehicle with a trailer attached you cannot have another CAP member in your vehicle with you.....
Any idea why?

When hooked up, a 12-Pack COV + trailer hangs outside the state.
Mass is kind of long. Rhode Island OTOH
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

a2capt

Quote from: rustyjeeper on August 22, 2014, 12:57:19 AM...and if you drive your own vehicle with a trailer attached you cannot have another CAP member in your vehicle with you.....
So, SM Dad and cadet offspring can't take the boat down to the launch?  :-X

Eclipse

Quote from: rustyjeeper on August 22, 2014, 12:57:19 AM
You are lucky to be able to use a trailer.
In my FORMER Wing before I left CAP (Massachusetts Wing)
There is a Wing policy forbidding the use of a trailer on a CAP vehicle and if you drive your own vehicle with a trailer attached you cannot have another CAP member in your vehicle with you.....

Not saying it isn't true, MAWG is pretty...well...but I'd really like to see that for myself.
Sadly, the 90's have captured MAWG's web presence...

"That Others May Zoom"

rustyjeeper

Quote from: Eclipse on August 29, 2014, 01:48:45 AM
Quote from: rustyjeeper on August 22, 2014, 12:57:19 AM
You are lucky to be able to use a trailer.
In my FORMER Wing before I left CAP (Massachusetts Wing)
There is a Wing policy forbidding the use of a trailer on a CAP vehicle and if you drive your own vehicle with a trailer attached you cannot have another CAP member in your vehicle with you.....

Not saying it isn't true, MAWG is pretty...well...but I'd really like to see that for myself.
Sadly, the 90's have captured MAWG's web presence...


EXCERPT from an email I wrote when questioning the policy

I am a reasonable kinda guy even if a bit stubborn-- will try to find the policy letter and post it.....
I quit CAP because of stupid stuff like this....







The Wing Commander has made a policy decision (attached)which I respect,  and I have followed and will continue to do so. The picture of myself (attached) was taken diving a CAP vehicle with a Privately owned trailer to and from NESA last year. I have logged over 1500 accident free miles, so I feel this demonstrates my ability to safely maneuver a cap van with a trailer while transporting cadets without having an accident or any concern as to my ability. Incidentally,  the trailer in the photo is owned personally by LtCol Paul Rowen of CT. Wing and at the time that van was a CT asset. That very same van is the one which my unit now has assigned to it since "trading" our Dodge Caravan which was in my opinion "virtually useless" to out unit with the number of cadets we have.
As an experienced participant of MASAR I can state with certainty that I cannot safely transport more than 6 people with full gear to MASAR or any other actual mission that may arise. Last year we at CP 18 had 10 participants for the program, and this coming year I expect a similar if not increased number to attend. Needing two vans in order to transport 10 people is NOT cost effective and creates severe financial hardships as well as necessitating a second driver and more round trips to and from training since few adults in my unit are willing to stay in field conditions for two days.
As an MSO I feel it is safer to allow people like myself with experience to pull a trailer than it is to overload a van with gear and people. Risk is reduced with gear in a trailer and not increased IF A DRIVER IS CAPABLE.
Units cannot afford to buy trailers and if a member owns one in good condition why not utilize it? Capt Kuegler spoke on the liability concerns to you over privately owned trailers from the perspective of the BSA and CAP does allow it in other wings, even at National activities.
There again, I am capable of determining the roadworthiness of a trailer. I have over twenty years of experience as a mechanic and I maintain my trailer. But if our Wing insists that no member use a privately owned trailer, renting one from U-Haul would in fact be more cost effective than a second van.
Money and volunteer man hours are precious and should not be wasted.
Presently under the policy that exists I cannot even dive towing a trailer with my own daughter in my car towing a trailer on a CAP mission and that makes no sense at all (my daughter is also a CAP member).
MASAR now requires a trailer to haul the significant amount of resources that are required and LtCol MaXXXXX has purchased on for its use, but that too is a hardship since it cannot be towed behind a CAP asset or anyone ride in the vehicle which tows it if privately owned.


rustyjeeper

incidentally I think MAWG has a new webmaster now and he is a good guy/// same webmaster for NESA
hopefully the website and wing will change someday.

rustyjeeper

Hi Simon,


Colonel Meskill has made the decision that COV's may not be used to tow trailers.  This is for the safety of all, as we cannot know the condition of the trailer, how it is loaded, what the weight limits are, that the COV is capable of towing it, or the ability of  the member to tow/operate it. 


If a member wishes to drive their POV with a trailer behind, they may do that as long as there are no other CAP members in the vehicle, and that neither the vehicle nor the  trailer are counted as official parts of a CAP activity, such as being signed into a mission for coverages and expenses.


I hope that answers all of your questions, but feel free to follow up.


Take care,
Sam


--

Sam Westover, 2d Lt
Supply Officer, Transportation Officer
MAWG - Civil Air Patrol


Sam,

I've had a request from our ES Officer to allow the use of his personally
owned trailer for the purpose of transporting equipment to MASAR this
winter.  The vehicle itself is likely to be well occupied with Cadets and
Seniors and adding a trailer would make the ride up considerably more
comfortable and allow for an extra passenger or two.

I can't find anything specifically permitting or denying this within CAPR
77-1.

If it is possible, does the driver need to have a checkout with the trailer
and have this added to his CAP drivers license?

Many thanks.

there ya go--- a chain between Wing Transportation officers,,,, new wing commander same policy- I checked before i quit, Trailers were not the big reason I left CAP but its illustrative of the reasons good people quit CAP

Eclipse

Very nice, except that's not had w supps work.

If the good Col feels that way he needs to publish a proper supplement.

As presented, this is a wive's tale with no weight of authority. The reasoning on COVs is
ridiculous.

"That Others May Zoom"

rustyjeeper

Quote from: Eclipse on August 29, 2014, 11:36:57 PM
Very nice, except that's not had w supps work.

If the good Col feels that way he needs to publish a proper supplement.

As presented, this is a wive's tale with no weight of authority. The reasoning on COVs is
ridiculous.

there was an actual email from the Wing Commander as a policy letter.
when the Commander gives an order you follow it,

same kinda thing went for pickup trucks
I had a CAP license for one and it was yanked-- why.....
because the wing got a new truck and it was different than the one it had before and a policy decision was made that every member needed to be road tested in the SPECIFIC VEHICLE to retain the CAP licence for a pickup truck...

why would anyone want to fight this kind of mentality and buck those in charge????
the GOBN is alive and well in MAWG
it has one less member now :) 8)

Private Investigator

I feel like I must have missed the memo.  ???

Spaceman3750

Road what? I'm assuming there's a supp requiring additional testing for a CAP DL as well?

rustyjeeper

Quote from: Eclipse on August 29, 2014, 11:36:57 PM
Very nice, except that's not had w supps work.

If the good Col feels that way he needs to publish a proper supplement.

As presented, this is a wive's tale with no weight of authority. The reasoning on COVs is
ridiculous.

I agree its not how its supposed to work.
I also agree on the proper supplement- however you cannot make a commander do anything as you should know... the Region and NHQ folks just deferred to the decision of the Wing King when I researched it.

Incidentally I USED to have a CAP 4x4 truck endorsement. TILL the wing got a new truck--- then a decision was made all members needed to test on the SPECIFIC vehicle because it "was different"-- I questioned this as it made no sense at all.
I got no suitable answers so I called the Wing Commander and voiced my concerns. I was told point blank he made a decision and thats how it was....  I pointed out that not every member was held to the same standard in our Wing and I named names. I went on to mention I believed a policy should be fairly implemented and not haphazardly-- I mentioned taking my concerns to the IG and explained my preference was to ask the man in charge before making a mountain out of a molehill.
My own unit would not seek answers for me-- they were part f the problem....
long story short-- me and a bunch of others had our licences yanked for the 4x4
and I got taken out behind our building and reamed a new one for "threatening " the wing commander and jumping chain....

way too much stuff like that MAWG was and is messed up and that is a few of the reasons why I am an EX member. There are some great people there and some real wingdings too.
CAP needs good leadership that will follow the regs and actually make rational decisions not things like these....

rustyjeeper

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on August 30, 2014, 12:09:04 AM
Road what? I'm assuming there's a supp requiring additional testing for a CAP DL as well?

in MAWG you need to go for a "road test / evaluation" with a wing approved driving instructor, :)
didnt you know CAP knows more than the Registry Examiners???

it's all in the name of safety!

Private Investigator

What is listed on your CAPF 101(E)? You have a TT<2000 or a TT>2000 endorsement of course.  8)

Eclipse

This is why there is an IG process - these things are not enforceable and would likely not withstand a complaint, however it's
not the first time that a Wing CC implemented policies that make no sense and hamper operations without justification, so there you go.

"That Others May Zoom"