"We're just volunteers"

[Eclipse]

I've had enough of the "this is just a volunteer organization" BS, which is used as a "dog ate my homework" excuse
for pretty much anything in CAP not done properly, or at all.

The statement, as a technical fact, is "true", however, especially for the adult membership, it's basically irrelevant.

Why?

1) When you signed the application and/or (moreso recently) raised your hand, you agreed to obey and abide by the regulations and
the directives of those appointed above you.  Not only the things you "agree with", or "have time for", or "feel is important".

2) More importantly, when you accepted the responsibility, and benefits of both membership, and that staff position, command, or duty, you agreed, as an adult, to do what needed to be done, completely and in compliance with the regulations, not only the things you "agree with", or "have time for", or "feel is important".

As an adult, when you're held out as falling short or making a mistake, your response is not supposed to be "we're just a volunteer organization" because you knew that when you joined and accepted the responsibility.  If you accepted something you didn't understand, that's on you, not CAP.

If you are short-staffed and feel overwhelmed, but haven't even attempted to engage your empty shirts or recruit new people, that's on you, not CAP.

If you don't understand the program, a program which appears complex, but hasn't changed much at the core in a decade, but sat in silence and never asked for help, that's on you, not CAP.

If your life circumstance changed, you bit off more then you can chew, or you're just not enjoying it anymore, but don't tell anyone or try and find help, that's on you, not CAP.

CAP asks for far more of its commanders and members then most similar organizations (actually, there is no "similar" organization),
the rewards and benefits can be huge, but don't always equal the effort, and sometimes take more tenacity then we breed into
people these days to negotiate, but with that said, its not a conscripted service, and everyone is free to leave, so when you accept
a responsibility (even the most basic responsibility of appearance and behavior), don't throw the "volunteer" card down on the table
and expect sympathy, because everyone else at the table is in the same situation, and most seem to be able to take care of business.

I am officially declaring that card "null and void" and removing it from the deck.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

You should tell us how you really feel. Let it all out, you know?   

[ColonelJack]

Or, in the words of Admiral James T. Kirk ...

"Don't mince words, Bones.  What do you REALLY think?"

Jack

[EMT-83]

Interesting, the fire chief gave the same talk at the firehouse last night... something about no longer carrying deadwood on the roster. So the issue isn't just limited to CAP.

If I hear the speech again, I'm going start taking it personally.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

 :clap:   :clap:   :clap:    :clap:   :clap:

The spaces make it an 80's movie slow clap.

I heard that the other night and this seemed like the place to use it.

[West MI-CAP-Ret]

My town has volunteer firemen, and they are dedicated professionals.

We can do without the chairborne rangers.  My experience in Mich Wg is that most seniors are really "Geeked" about being in an organization that is mandated by congress to save lives.  I also enjoy mentoring teens and helping them learn to serve rather than be served!

[sardak]

Had a Wing Commander tell the Wing that "CAP stopped being a volunteer organization when you joined."

Mike

[Walkman]

Good points on everything said.

[A.Member]

I've had enough of the "this is just a volunteer organization" BS, which is used as a "dog ate my homework" excuse
for pretty much anything in CAP not done properly, or at all.

The statement, as a technical fact, is "true", however, especially for the adult membership, it's basically irrelevant.

Why?

1) When you signed the application and/or (moreso recently) raised your hand, you agreed to obey and abide by the regulations and
the directives of those appointed above you.  Not only the things you "agree with", or "have time for", or "feel is important".

2) More importantly, when you accepted the responsibility, and benefits of both membership, and that staff position, command, or duty, you agreed, as an adult, to do what needed to be done, completely and in compliance with the regulations, not only the things you "agree with", or "have time for", or "feel is important".

As an adult, when you're held out as falling short or making a mistake, your response is not supposed to be "we're just a volunteer organization" because you knew that when you joined and accepted the responsibility.  If you accepted something you didn't understand, that's on you, not CAP.

If you are short-staffed and feel overwhelmed, but haven't even attempted to engage your empty shirts or recruit new people, that's on you, not CAP.

If you don't understand the program, a program which appears complex, but hasn't changed much at the core in a decade, but sat in silence and never asked for help, that's on you, not CAP.

If your life circumstance changed, you bit off more then you can chew, or you're just not enjoying it anymore, but don't tell anyone or try and find help, that's on you, not CAP.

CAP asks for far more of its commanders and members then most similar organizations (actually, there is no "similar" organization),
the rewards and benefits can be huge, but don't always equal the effort, and sometimes take more tenacity then we breed into
people these days to negotiate, but with that said, its not a conscripted service, and everyone is free to leave, so when you accept
a responsibility (even the most basic responsibility of appearance and behavior), don't throw the "volunteer" card down on the table
and expect sympathy, because everyone else at the table is in the same situation, and most seem to be able to take care of business.

I am officially declaring that card "null and void" and removing it from the deck.

I agree but find this post interesting, particularly the bold part above, given your comment in the Sen. McCain thread.  Just sayin'.

[Woodsy]

Very well said, sir!!

[Майор Хаткевич]

I am just a volunteer. But, I try to do what I volunteer for. I'm also trying to learn my limits and not bitting off more than I can handle. I believe its the second CD topic and I just did that with our cadets on Tuesday. Overall I agree with the post. Were all volunteers until we agree to do something. Then its our duty.

[dwb]

While I agree with the spirit of the gentleman from Illinois' diatribe, I also think we need to have realistic expectations of our membership. We're not at our desks from 9-5 every day doing CAP work (well, most of us aren't), so you have to accept that some things move along a little slower, because it is a nights-and-weekends commitment, not a paying job. We are just volunteers, after all.

That said, you should not accept a position if you're not prepared to take it seriously. Being a volunteer is not a cop out for doing the job half-heartedly.

Or, to paraphrase one of my old college profs: this program only works if you do.

[Jaison009]

I am in a Certified Volunteer Manager class for my real job and we discussed this in regards to professionalsim and conduct in our last session. We as non-profits have to hold volunteers to the same standards as staff and volunteers are "unpaid staff".

Had a Wing Commander tell the Wing that "CAP stopped being a volunteer organization when you joined." :clap: :clap:

Mike

[JoeTomasone]

Funny; when I was in a volunteer Fire Department, failure to meet standards was met with an invitation to leave.   They seemed pretty serious about things.   Something about lifesaving, and performing a mission for the community that mattered...

[ProdigalJim]

^^^^ This.

Indeed. The fire department of which I was a proud member was a combined career/volunteer department. The only difference was the paycheck. The fire academy was 648 training hours. Period. Whether you were a volunteer or a paid FF. We did hours two five-hour nights per week, plus all day Saturday and Sunday, for months on end. If you missed a class, you had to make up the training somehow, and get it signed off by an Academy-blessed instructor.

Each unit had a practical (ladders, search-and-rescue, hose, etc.), and you had three chances to pass the practical. If you flunked a practical, it was back to square one...even if that was 200 hours ago.

Once you got through EMT school, Fire Academy, driver's school and probation, then -- and only then -- could you ride on a front-line piece. For zero dollars.

"We're only volunteers" was generally met with "yeah, well, YOU volunteered."

I understand the different demographics of Civil Air Patrol, and the different existing culture, and a few different realities. I'm not going to go all Full Metal Jacket on any member, and I truly believe that every member -- even swivel-chair patrol types -- can contribute in some way. But when "we're only volunteers" is code for "I'll do what I want, when I feel like it, regardless of needs," I'm going to turn to others for help in the future.

I personally believe we don't demand enough of our members; if I can hold down a demanding full-time job, raise my kids, volunteer at the fire house 40 hours a month and commit to CAP training and missions, well, so can someone else. It was my choice to do this, and if it becomes too much, it will be my choice to step down...but I won't make and serially break promises to the organizations. I've dialed back at the fire department because of my CAP commitments, and that's the balance.

[sardak]

I'm a member of our county SAR team, a fully accredited Mountain Rescue Association team. This is not the first team I've been on. We're "volunteers" who buy our own personal climbing/rescue equipment, uniforms, radios etc. The team provides team equipment such as ropes, litters, med gear, etc. We do have handheld radios for issue, but experienced members usually buy their own.

Regular trainings are two Wednesday nights and two weekend days per month. The team requirement is 50% attendance at weekend trainings and 50% attendance at Wednesday nights. We track attendance on a sliding quarterly basis. Don't meet the requirements in one or the other category? You're not allowed to respond on actual missions. Show up anyway? Go home or work in base, but you're not going into the field.

We also require 25% attendance at actual calls. If you don't make 25% then you don't go into the field until you're back to 25%. Pretty hard to make up lost time since you don't know when the calls are going to be. (If you do know, you're assigned to team management ). We have about a hundred calls a year, with our highest being 142. 

Members who ask for temporary relief from the attendance requirements are accommodated, but after a certain length of time, requalification is required. Stop showing up and then ask for relief, forget it.

Our new members have one extra Wednesday night training each month and they are *highly* expected (not required) to have 100% attendance at trainings/meetings. Not making them just extends the training period, and most trainees who start missing trainings drop out. We also have non-required new member trainings at least once a month. There are skill tests and a written test to become field qualified. Trainees don't get to respond to actual calls unless they happen to occur during a training, which actually happens a number of times each year. The minimum training period is 6 months and we have only one open enrollment period each year.

Our requirements are generally the same as surrounding teams, but a couple of nearby teams require 100% new member attendance, and their trainee periods are a full year minimum.

Yes, we are "volunteers" who have spouses, families and jobs just like CAP members. "Volunteer" only means unpaid, not unprofessional.

Mike

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I am a "volunteer;" however, what that means has evolved since the almost 20 years ago I first walked into a CAP meeting.

I was 20 years younger then.  I was single.  I had virtually nil social life.  I was in better health.

Within the space of a couple of years, I qualified to work mission base, then Scanner, then Observer.  I became Deputy Commander of my unit.

Now...things are different.

I am not a young man any more, and my health is not as good.  I am married.

Virtually ALL of what I do for CAP is behind-the-scenes and much of it from home.

If that is still relevant for CAP, if I am still relevant for CAP, great.  If not...CAP is not the only game in town.

I would offer the other side of the coin to the "we're only volunteers" line...those who are able to live, eat, breathe, drink and sleep CAP every hour that they're not otherwise gainfully engaged, who treat it almost like they're active-duty military (and there are seniors who do this, not just cadets).  I know one senior CAP officer whose wife (also a CAP officer) has told him at least once to ease back on CAP, because it was proving detrimental to their relationship.

I have made no secret of this to my colleagues and superiors.  If it is acceptable, great.  If not, I hope they can find someone who is able to be the quasi-active duty type.

[Devil Doc]

I'm a member of our county SAR team, a fully accredited Mountain Rescue Association team. This is not the first team I've been on. We're "volunteers" who buy our own personal climbing/rescue equipment, uniforms, radios etc. The team provides team equipment such as ropes, litters, med gear, etc. We do have handheld radios for issue, but experienced members usually buy their own.

Regular trainings are two Wednesday nights and two weekend days per month. The team requirement is 50% attendance at weekend trainings and 50% attendance at Wednesday nights. We track attendance on a sliding quarterly basis. Don't meet the requirements in one or the other category? You're not allowed to respond on actual missions. Show up anyway? Go home or work in base, but you're not going into the field.

We also require 25% attendance at actual calls. If you don't make 25% then you don't go into the field until you're back to 25%. Pretty hard to make up lost time since you don't know when the calls are going to be. (If you do know, you're assigned to team management ). We have about a hundred calls a year, with our highest being 142. 

Members who ask for temporary relief from the attendance requirements are accommodated, but after a certain length of time, requalification is required. Stop showing up and then ask for relief, forget it.

Our new members have one extra Wednesday night training each month and they are *highly* expected (not required) to have 100% attendance at trainings/meetings. Not making them just extends the training period, and most trainees who start missing trainings drop out. We also have non-required new member trainings at least once a month. There are skill tests and a written test to become field qualified. Trainees don't get to respond to actual calls unless they happen to occur during a training, which actually happens a number of times each year. The minimum training period is 6 months and we have only one open enrollment period each year.

Our requirements are generally the same as surrounding teams, but a couple of nearby teams require 100% new member attendance, and their trainee periods are a full year minimum.

Yes, we are "volunteers" who have spouses, families and jobs just like CAP members. "Volunteer" only means unpaid, not unprofessional.

Mike

Sounds a bit Harsh. Some people have family and other things to take care of. Also, some people can only go on mission at certain times, so if the mission does not fall on that time frame, than what? I love SAR, i love being a medic, but the whole "Volunteer" should be just that. Ya your a Professional, but if cant make certain calls, etc, your off the team? There is no team if they have the fear of getting the boot. The other thing about SAR is the whole qualification thing, yes, i understand the qualification, but untill a agreement is set upon which qualifications are mandatory, there is no difference in training. Eyes and Ears, is Eyes and Ears, no matter who you qualified with. I volunteer alot of my time with CAP, but if they said, oh you have to come to this many meetings/training, i would reaign now. I joined, so when i have the "Time" i can train, if i want to miss 3 months of meeting and training? So be it.

[ProdigalJim]

I am a "volunteer;" however, what that means has evolved since the almost 20 years ago I first walked into a CAP meeting.

I was 20 years younger then.  I was single.  I had virtually nil social life.  I was in better health.

Within the space of a couple of years, I qualified to work mission base, then Scanner, then Observer.  I became Deputy Commander of my unit.

Now...things are different.

I am not a young man any more, and my health is not as good.  I am married.

Virtually ALL of what I do for CAP is behind-the-scenes and much of it from home.

If that is still relevant for CAP, if I am still relevant for CAP, great.  If not...CAP is not the only game in town.

I would offer the other side of the coin to the "we're only volunteers" line...those who are able to live, eat, breathe, drink and sleep CAP every hour that they're not otherwise gainfully engaged, who treat it almost like they're active-duty military (and there are seniors who do this, not just cadets).  I know one senior CAP officer whose wife (also a CAP officer) has told him at least once to ease back on CAP, because it was proving detrimental to their relationship.

I have made no secret of this to my colleagues and superiors.  If it is acceptable, great.  If not, I hope they can find someone who is able to be the quasi-active duty type.

Don't misunderstand me. There are LOTS of ways to serve. Behind-the-scenes and much of it from home is STILL work, and it's still different from, "Don't hold me accountable, I'm just a volunteer."

There's a guy in our squadron who works recruitment for us. He has a family medical issue going on which means he's pretty much at home all the time. I've been back in CAP for more than two years, and I have yet to lay eyes on this guy. And yet...he works the email, the systems, and callbacks and gets a steady stream of potential new members coming in the door each and every week. The pipeline is flowing, and he's the guy running it. Virtually, not on-site. Even though I'd have a hard time picking him out of a lineup, he's hardly an "empty shirt." In my book, that counts.  (And if he's reading this, he knows who he is...Good on ya!  :clap: )

The above (and, CyBorg, your situation) is worlds different from the people who do nothing, don't show up, don't train, and then get miffed because they aren't on the Fertile Keynote list. Or are peeved because I won't just pencil-whip a Special Promotion package through to make them a Lt. Col. because when they were active-duty they were O-5s or O-6s. Really?

Come, train, learn, participate, teach, be part of the life of the squadron in some way. If the attitude is "don't bug me. I'm a volunteer. I'll do what I want, when I want, and you'll be grateful because...we're just volunteers and you get what you get," well...that works both ways.

[NIN]

Or, in the words of Admiral James T. Kirk ...

"Don't mince words, Bones.  What do you REALLY think?"

Its kind of nice having a girlfriend who is not media/pop culture savvy as I am for lines like this. I whipped that line out the other day and it makes me sound all Captain Kirk-like.   LOL.